Update on the New Mobil 1 R Oil

TooSlick · Nov 10, 2003

UF,

It probably looks like this:
www.amsoil.com/products/tso.html

Seriously, you don't mean to imply there's some marketing going on with the term "Racing Oil"???

TS

GROUCHO MARX · Nov 10, 2003

UF, do you think someone's trying to "hype" this oil?

userfriendly · Nov 10, 2003

In that link there is, but what would a racer need a TBN of 11.0 for?
The Datona 50,000?

buster · Nov 10, 2003

quote:

The Datona 50,000?

I sense a bit of a panic from the Amsoil guys.

TS, why are you saying it's marketing hype? Like Amsoil hasn't hyped the S2k....35k mile drains/Race Proven.

UF, it's going to have more AW additives, a better base stock and more FM'ers for increase HP. It will also be more shear stable according to the article. Did you read the article?

Lets see what George finds out about it and he can post it. It does annoy me how they push M1 as the ulitmate oil and then role out another saying it's much better and your engine will last longer.

It's hard to say anything at this point other then what George and the exxonmobil article said.

[ November 10, 2003, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

userfriendly · Nov 10, 2003

Buster;
Its going to be more shear stable, have more AW and FM additives than WHAT oil?
Which oil are we comparing this mystery oil to in the first place?
Answer this Buster;
What does a racing oil have to do and for how long?

geeeman · Nov 10, 2003

Everybody take a deep breath...and forget about M1-R ? until anybody knows ANYTHING !!! about it.

GC overhyped...??? At least it DOES! exist...and when and if M1-R finally turns up on a shelf somewhere, then we can drool, or slam or whatever.

It is foolish to speculate and assume with nothing but corporate PROPAGANDA!!! to base it on.

PS - If M1 is so great, why the need for M1-R???
Kind of makes you wonder...

buster · Nov 10, 2003

quote:

Its going to be more shear stable, have more AW and FM additives than WHAT oil?
Which oil are we comparing this mystery oil to in the first place?

Your kidding right? I'm not even going to answer such a stupid question.

quote:

Everybody take a deep breath...and forget about M1-R ? until anybody knows ANYTHING !!! about it.

GC overhyped...??? At least it DOES! exist...and when and if M1-R finally turns up on a shelf somewhere, then we can drool, or slam or whatever.

True, but it's fun and completely unexpected from Mobil.

As to why they are bringing it out? Why not? There are always oils that are going to be better out there. We've always known Mobil 1 to be a great OTC oil but there are better, especially ones used for racing.

[ November 11, 2003, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: buster ]

jason07-1zzfe · Nov 10, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by userfriendly:
...
What does a racing oil have to do and for how long?

Of course M1 calling it a race oil is hype. The only true RACE only oil that anyone can buy is Red Line's race oils. Every other "race" oil I have seen is safe for and designed for extended street use.

What does a race oil have to do and for how long? Pretty obvious. In general and too keep it shorter: Provide minimum friction for max hp and low heat, good heat dissipation, don't form deposits on oil burners, while providing safe wear protection. These above ALL else. If you have to change out after every race(and in reality you will or close to it) so be it.

buster · Nov 10, 2003

userfriendly, Jason hit the nail on the head. Nothing else to add.

TooSlick · Nov 11, 2003

It is still desirable to have detergents and dispersants in a racing oil, in order to prevent high temp piston ring deposits. This is especially true for long road races. Without detergency the rings would probably become stuck pretty rapidly under racing conditions.

Ted

jason07-1zzfe · Nov 11, 2003

Who said no detergents?

Mic · Nov 11, 2003

Someone once said. Just because a professional race team is using a certain type of oil, does not mean it is good for our cars. A race cars engine is started once and warmed up very carefully. It then has the crap drove out of it for 100 to 500 miles. After that it is tore down to replace all the worn parts, the oil, and the oil filter.

userfriendly · Nov 11, 2003

Prevent engine failure for the duration of the race.
Prevent failure for the expected service life of the engine.

Example: In top fuel, what does the motor oil have to do, and for how long?

speedybenz · Nov 11, 2003

A good race oil needs to everything a daily driver oil does but it has to do it better.

Even though the race oils are changed after every race weekend or everyday it needs to keep the metal parts from touching each other. The better it can do this the better the engine parts wear. And it needs to do this with the least amount of friction loss through oil shear.

The engine parts that get used hardest are the valve train and big end rod bearings. Valve springs go to **** fast and need oil just to help cool them.

Piston rings also do not have a long life, but its more due to metal fatigue than oil problems.

Jeff

MolaKule · Nov 12, 2003

And that's where the proper vicosity oil and additive package comes into play!

buster · Nov 12, 2003

I was told by George, who has seen the oil and knows people that use it, it is a highly advanced PAO that no one but Mobil has access to. So I'm fairly certain that it's not a the 5w-40 from Europe.

As MK said, the oil that hits the market will either be the same or derived from the R oil. If it's identical, then the R oil already has detergents in it. They will not release an oil that can't be used in street cars.

[ November 12, 2003, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

buster · Nov 12, 2003

I spoke with George Morrison at AVLube. He said he would keep us updated on this oil as he receives any info. The lead race engineer said the HP gains and reduction in wear rates have been extraordinary with this oil. Team Penske is using it but others want to use it also so the demand is forcing Mobil to make more of it and supply it. He said what makes this oil different then any other oil is it relies on state of the art base oil technology. It doesn't focus on additive packages, which are the weak link in any oil, and approach that many other oils use. They are trying to get it and most likely will in 5-gallon pales. It will make it to the retail chains around Feb./March. This PAO doesn’t get sold to anyone and is only used by Exxon Mobil.

So I don't think we will be hearing anything for awhile but George will be the first to let us know. They are very excited about it as well. No I'm not an exxom rep and yes I am looking forward to it. If it does not live up to the hype, you can all rip me apart.

MolaKule · Nov 12, 2003

quote:

What does a "racing" engine oil have to do and for how long?
TBN 3.0 ?
ZDDP 400 PPM?
FMs ??
DDs???
ect???

A true racing oil needs mostly FM and AW adds, and low levels of Detergency/Dispersancy. We have to remember that a racing oil is NOT a daily driver oil, in the strictest sense.

TBN is my view is not important for 1/4 mile to 500 mile races. You're going to drain it anyway after the race and flush the engine with high R&O oil for storage. The important factors for a racing oil are HTHS and viscosity retention.

Here are some typical base AW add levels in use for a 40-50 weight monograde Racing Oil:

MoTDC - 500 - 800 PPM
ZDDP - 1,300 - 2,000 PPM
Borates - 400 PPM

For the DD Package - 10 PPM Magnesium Stuff, 1,000 ppm Calcium Stuff.

The FM's are provided by the base oil, the fatty acid esters one chooses to use, and or a slight amount of VII which will tend to keep the oil around the target weight.

If this new Mobil R is truly a racing oil formulation, why use it in a daily driver?

I suspect it will be a daily driver formulation "DERIVED" from one or more ASPECTS of the racing formulation.

Let's hope this stuff is not just some copy or relabled version of the Mobil "System-S," a GIII - GIV.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000034#000000

[ November 12, 2003, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

GeorgeCLS · Nov 13, 2003

At this point the Mobil 1 0W-30R is going to be officially available for shipment January 6, 2004. It will be on our website January 10, 2004..... It will be available in 6 one quart cases.. Thank goodness not exclusively in 5 gallon pails as it has been packaged to date! As we get more information I will post it immediately. As indicated, the Mobil 1 R IS the 'real stuff', the same formulation as used in Mobil racing affiliate engines. As to API certification, no information at this time.
As shared previously, the 'trick' aspect of this oil is its unique base stock chemistry which provides significant performance gains without compromising its lubrication qualities.
To be continued.......
George Morrison

userfriendly · Nov 13, 2003

George, Since we have you, what is the differece between 1330 and 1630 HDMOs?

Update on the New Mobil 1 R Oil

Similar threads