Understanding HTHS
- Thread starter ka9mnx
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: PimTac
“....Hey, this all reminds me that Molakule once told us that he was working on an LSPI-resistant 0W30 with an HTHS of 3.3...wonder what happened there?....”
I guess we will never know since he decided to leave BITOG. It’s a shame too.
I hadn't realized, that is too bad.
I think he probably had some legal restraints on what he could say about his contract work in public, but I thought maybe some detectives on here could have made some guesses. Last time I checked, M1 0W30 AFE was the only d1G2 oil of that grade and it doesn't match the properties of the product he was working on...but, he didn't say it was going to be tested for that standard, either.
“....Hey, this all reminds me that Molakule once told us that he was working on an LSPI-resistant 0W30 with an HTHS of 3.3...wonder what happened there?....”
I guess we will never know since he decided to leave BITOG. It’s a shame too.
I hadn't realized, that is too bad.
I think he probably had some legal restraints on what he could say about his contract work in public, but I thought maybe some detectives on here could have made some guesses. Last time I checked, M1 0W30 AFE was the only d1G2 oil of that grade and it doesn't match the properties of the product he was working on...but, he didn't say it was going to be tested for that standard, either.
Originally Posted By: PimTac
I guess we will never know since he decided to leave BITOG. It’s a shame too.
That situation appears to have reversed.
I guess we will never know since he decided to leave BITOG. It’s a shame too.
That situation appears to have reversed.
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: PimTac
I guess we will never know since he decided to leave BITOG. It’s a shame too.
That situation appears to have reversed.
He was just online 3 minutes ago, so he's still here thankfully! This place wouldn't be the same without him!
Originally Posted By: PimTac
I guess we will never know since he decided to leave BITOG. It’s a shame too.
That situation appears to have reversed.
He was just online 3 minutes ago, so he's still here thankfully! This place wouldn't be the same without him!
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
That ESP 5W30 has some very impressive properties and I used it for a couple of changes, but I didn't like what I had to pay for it and especially disliked dealing with liter bottles (couldn't even find 4/5l jugs online). I recently used Valvoline AFS 5W30 partly because it had a higher HTHS for a Walmart 5W30 d1G2 oil (3.2??), but bought M1 5W30 last time because of the rebate. Sometimes I say I don't really care what I pay for my oil, but my actions often do not match that sentiment.
I like saving money so it does bother me that I have to pay over $100 for an oil change with ESP Formula 5w30 (especially if I'm doing 2 oil changes a year on the Corvette), so if the ESP 0w40 ends up being sold in 5 quart jugs at a much more reasonable price (such as $22 a jug!) it's likely I would switch over to that. I've also considered Pennzoil 5w30 Euro L, as it's also dexos2 certified so it's going to have an HTHS of 3.5 or more too, and it's sold in 5 qt jugs at Walmart (although lately the Walmart I go to in Niagara Falls NY doesn't seem to have it in stock) I have also heard that Pennzoil might be releasing a dexos2 0w40 as well, so that's another future possibility.
That ESP 5W30 has some very impressive properties and I used it for a couple of changes, but I didn't like what I had to pay for it and especially disliked dealing with liter bottles (couldn't even find 4/5l jugs online). I recently used Valvoline AFS 5W30 partly because it had a higher HTHS for a Walmart 5W30 d1G2 oil (3.2??), but bought M1 5W30 last time because of the rebate. Sometimes I say I don't really care what I pay for my oil, but my actions often do not match that sentiment.
I like saving money so it does bother me that I have to pay over $100 for an oil change with ESP Formula 5w30 (especially if I'm doing 2 oil changes a year on the Corvette), so if the ESP 0w40 ends up being sold in 5 quart jugs at a much more reasonable price (such as $22 a jug!) it's likely I would switch over to that. I've also considered Pennzoil 5w30 Euro L, as it's also dexos2 certified so it's going to have an HTHS of 3.5 or more too, and it's sold in 5 qt jugs at Walmart (although lately the Walmart I go to in Niagara Falls NY doesn't seem to have it in stock) I have also heard that Pennzoil might be releasing a dexos2 0w40 as well, so that's another future possibility.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
That ESP 5W30 has some very impressive properties and I used it for a couple of changes, but I didn't like what I had to pay for it and especially disliked dealing with liter bottles (couldn't even find 4/5l jugs online). I recently used Valvoline AFS 5W30 partly because it had a higher HTHS for a Walmart 5W30 d1G2 oil (3.2??), but bought M1 5W30 last time because of the rebate. Sometimes I say I don't really care what I pay for my oil, but my actions often do not match that sentiment.
I like saving money so it does bother me that I have to pay over $100 for an oil change with ESP Formula 5w30 (especially if I'm doing 2 oil changes a year on the Corvette), so if the ESP 0w40 ends up being sold in 5 quart jugs at a much more reasonable price (such as $22 a jug!) it's likely I would switch over to that. I've also considered Pennzoil 5w30 Euro L, as it's also dexos2 certified so it's going to have an HTHS of 3.5 or more too, and it's sold in 5 qt jugs at Walmart (although lately the Walmart I go to in Niagara Falls NY doesn't seem to have it in stock) I have also heard that Pennzoil might be releasing a dexos2 0w40 as well, so that's another future possibility.
You talking about this one? I grabbed this jug on Walmart clearance and they don’t have it at my Texas store now:
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
That ESP 5W30 has some very impressive properties and I used it for a couple of changes, but I didn't like what I had to pay for it and especially disliked dealing with liter bottles (couldn't even find 4/5l jugs online). I recently used Valvoline AFS 5W30 partly because it had a higher HTHS for a Walmart 5W30 d1G2 oil (3.2??), but bought M1 5W30 last time because of the rebate. Sometimes I say I don't really care what I pay for my oil, but my actions often do not match that sentiment.
I like saving money so it does bother me that I have to pay over $100 for an oil change with ESP Formula 5w30 (especially if I'm doing 2 oil changes a year on the Corvette), so if the ESP 0w40 ends up being sold in 5 quart jugs at a much more reasonable price (such as $22 a jug!) it's likely I would switch over to that. I've also considered Pennzoil 5w30 Euro L, as it's also dexos2 certified so it's going to have an HTHS of 3.5 or more too, and it's sold in 5 qt jugs at Walmart (although lately the Walmart I go to in Niagara Falls NY doesn't seem to have it in stock) I have also heard that Pennzoil might be releasing a dexos2 0w40 as well, so that's another future possibility.
You talking about this one? I grabbed this jug on Walmart clearance and they don’t have it at my Texas store now:
Patman
Staff member
^^^ That's the one, they list it as not being in stock at the Niagara Falls Walmart that I visit whenever I cross the border but they say if you order it online they'll ship it there within 2 days and it's currently $22.xx per jug. It's a great choice for someone that wants a 5w30 with a higher HTHS than the norm.
Originally Posted By: Patman
This is what makes me confident in my choice of using M1 ESP Formula 5w30 in place of M1 ESP Formula 0w40 (which is now factory fill on the Corvettes, and recommended by GM for use in the 2014-2018s too) The 0w40 might have a higher viscosity at 100c (12.9 vs 12.1) but the 5w30 actually has a slightly better HTHS (3.58 vs 3.53) I know it's not a huge difference, but I'm happy that it's even close to the same HTHS, while most likely being the more shear stable of the two choices. And either of these two choices is a step up from the regular M1 5w30, which has an HTHS of only 3.1, which I think is just a tad low for those times when I want to have some fun and make a few full throttle blasts.
I think it's a good call, and would be the one that I'd make personally.
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I'd actually argue that an oil with a relatively low 100C viscosity and a relatively high HTHS (compared to competitors of the same grade) would give a great combination of wear protection at critical spots in the engine as well as lower general frictional losses (=better gas mileage).
Too bad many of the big makers don't share HTHS for all their oils...
Pick your HTHS point, and choose the oil with the Harman Index closest to "1", it is closer to a Newtonian.
5W30 Dexos 2 could be the staple for almost everyone (who doesn't need 0W of course).
If they had Dexos 2 10W30, I'd buy it.
Originally Posted By: ka9mnx
More great info. Thanks Shannow! I'm still digesting them. Hard to see the fine print with my old eyes.
You have me thinking, in my climate, I could get by (additives permitting) with a straight weight. But I was thinking 30w? Probably won't because I'm happy with the HTHS of the oils I use. May try the 10w-30 in the Ranger next time...
No problems
Google
The relationship between Engine Oil Viscosity and Engine Performance, Part 2
It's where I got a lot of my stuff, if you can find a preview in Google Books, you can blow it up and see some of the context.
This is what makes me confident in my choice of using M1 ESP Formula 5w30 in place of M1 ESP Formula 0w40 (which is now factory fill on the Corvettes, and recommended by GM for use in the 2014-2018s too) The 0w40 might have a higher viscosity at 100c (12.9 vs 12.1) but the 5w30 actually has a slightly better HTHS (3.58 vs 3.53) I know it's not a huge difference, but I'm happy that it's even close to the same HTHS, while most likely being the more shear stable of the two choices. And either of these two choices is a step up from the regular M1 5w30, which has an HTHS of only 3.1, which I think is just a tad low for those times when I want to have some fun and make a few full throttle blasts.
I think it's a good call, and would be the one that I'd make personally.
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I'd actually argue that an oil with a relatively low 100C viscosity and a relatively high HTHS (compared to competitors of the same grade) would give a great combination of wear protection at critical spots in the engine as well as lower general frictional losses (=better gas mileage).
Too bad many of the big makers don't share HTHS for all their oils...
Pick your HTHS point, and choose the oil with the Harman Index closest to "1", it is closer to a Newtonian.
5W30 Dexos 2 could be the staple for almost everyone (who doesn't need 0W of course).
If they had Dexos 2 10W30, I'd buy it.
Originally Posted By: ka9mnx
More great info. Thanks Shannow! I'm still digesting them. Hard to see the fine print with my old eyes.
You have me thinking, in my climate, I could get by (additives permitting) with a straight weight. But I was thinking 30w? Probably won't because I'm happy with the HTHS of the oils I use. May try the 10w-30 in the Ranger next time...
No problems
The relationship between Engine Oil Viscosity and Engine Performance, Part 2
It's where I got a lot of my stuff, if you can find a preview in Google Books, you can blow it up and see some of the context.
Random question
Wouldn't the typical 15W-40 HDEO and PCMO 20W-50 have a similar HTHS? around the 4-4.x mark? some like Valvoline VR1 have a HTHS of 5 put aren't most 20W-50 PCMO About 4-4.5?
Wouldn't the typical 15W-40 HDEO and PCMO 20W-50 have a similar HTHS? around the 4-4.x mark? some like Valvoline VR1 have a HTHS of 5 put aren't most 20W-50 PCMO About 4-4.5?
Originally Posted By: Patman
^^^ That's the one, they list it as not being in stock at the Niagara Falls Walmart that I visit whenever I cross the border but they say if you order it online they'll ship it there within 2 days and it's currently $22.xx per jug. It's a great choice for someone that wants a 5w30 with a higher HTHS than the norm.
This used to be carried at my local Walmarts, but I haven't seen it for at least a few months now.
Regarding Shannow's mention of dexos2 5W30s, I was excited about that option after I learned that standard includes an LSPI test, but I have not seen any of those oils at WM or O'Reilly as of yet. I agree that these oils would cover a lot of important bases...
^^^ That's the one, they list it as not being in stock at the Niagara Falls Walmart that I visit whenever I cross the border but they say if you order it online they'll ship it there within 2 days and it's currently $22.xx per jug. It's a great choice for someone that wants a 5w30 with a higher HTHS than the norm.
This used to be carried at my local Walmarts, but I haven't seen it for at least a few months now.
Regarding Shannow's mention of dexos2 5W30s, I was excited about that option after I learned that standard includes an LSPI test, but I have not seen any of those oils at WM or O'Reilly as of yet. I agree that these oils would cover a lot of important bases...
Yesterday I bought a 5 gallon US pail of Delvac 10W30 CK-4/SN, HTHS about 3.5, how different could the additive package be from the Dexos 2 5W30 Mobil offering?
www.coolcreek.ca
www.coolcreek.ca
Last edited:
So if one does not care about fuel economy, and minimum wear is a priority, is it safe to say that higher HTHS is always better for a given base viscosity (5W-30, for example)? Can you have a "too high" HTHS?
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Regarding Shannow's mention of dexos2 5W30s, I was excited about that option after I learned that standard includes an LSPI test, but I have not seen any of those oils at WM or O'Reilly as of yet. I agree that these oils would cover a lot of important bases...
Bought Valvoline Advanced 5W-30 at Walmart over a month ago ... shows it to be dexos1 GEN2, SN rated. 5qt jugs for $21.47.
Regarding Shannow's mention of dexos2 5W30s, I was excited about that option after I learned that standard includes an LSPI test, but I have not seen any of those oils at WM or O'Reilly as of yet. I agree that these oils would cover a lot of important bases...
Bought Valvoline Advanced 5W-30 at Walmart over a month ago ... shows it to be dexos1 GEN2, SN rated. 5qt jugs for $21.47.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Regarding Shannow's mention of dexos2 5W30s, I was excited about that option after I learned that standard includes an LSPI test, but I have not seen any of those oils at WM or O'Reilly as of yet. I agree that these oils would cover a lot of important bases...
Bought Valvoline Advanced 5W-30 at Walmart over a month ago ... shows it to be dexos1 GEN2, SN rated. 5qt jugs for $21.47.
I used that for a change, liked the 3.2 HTHS for a d1G2 oil.
Went with M1 for the last change because it quite a bit cheaper than the Valvoline when there is a rebate.
We were discussing dexos2 oils, though, as they will give you an HTHS of 3.5 or higher while also providing LSPI protection (if you care about that). Something like Pennzoil 5W30 Euro L or M1 5W30 ESP.
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Regarding Shannow's mention of dexos2 5W30s, I was excited about that option after I learned that standard includes an LSPI test, but I have not seen any of those oils at WM or O'Reilly as of yet. I agree that these oils would cover a lot of important bases...
Bought Valvoline Advanced 5W-30 at Walmart over a month ago ... shows it to be dexos1 GEN2, SN rated. 5qt jugs for $21.47.
I used that for a change, liked the 3.2 HTHS for a d1G2 oil.
Went with M1 for the last change because it quite a bit cheaper than the Valvoline when there is a rebate.
We were discussing dexos2 oils, though, as they will give you an HTHS of 3.5 or higher while also providing LSPI protection (if you care about that). Something like Pennzoil 5W30 Euro L or M1 5W30 ESP.
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
We were discussing dexos2 oils, though, as they will give you an HTHS of 3.5 or higher while also providing LSPI protection (if you care about that). Something like Pennzoil 5W30 Euro L or M1 5W30 ESP.
dexos2 is for diesel applications ... but dexos1 Gen2 also gives LSPI protection, and supposedly better wear protection for cam-chain driven engines.
We were discussing dexos2 oils, though, as they will give you an HTHS of 3.5 or higher while also providing LSPI protection (if you care about that). Something like Pennzoil 5W30 Euro L or M1 5W30 ESP.
dexos2 is for diesel applications ... but dexos1 Gen2 also gives LSPI protection, and supposedly better wear protection for cam-chain driven engines.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
We were discussing dexos2 oils, though, as they will give you an HTHS of 3.5 or higher while also providing LSPI protection (if you care about that). Something like Pennzoil 5W30 Euro L or M1 5W30 ESP.
dexos2 is for diesel applications ... but dexos1 Gen2 also gives LSPI protection, and supposedly better wear protection for cam-chain driven engines.
No, Dexos 2 is for either Gas or diesel.
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
We were discussing dexos2 oils, though, as they will give you an HTHS of 3.5 or higher while also providing LSPI protection (if you care about that). Something like Pennzoil 5W30 Euro L or M1 5W30 ESP.
dexos2 is for diesel applications ... but dexos1 Gen2 also gives LSPI protection, and supposedly better wear protection for cam-chain driven engines.
No, Dexos 2 is for either Gas or diesel.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
M1HM 10W-30 is A3/B3, SN-PLUS (LSPI protection) and also gives you 3.5 HT/HS. There are a few nice choices out there. You just need to do a little research.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
We were discussing dexos2 oils, though, as they will give you an HTHS of 3.5 or higher while also providing LSPI protection (if you care about that). Something like Pennzoil 5W30 Euro L or M1 5W30 ESP.
dexos2 is for diesel applications ... but dexos1 Gen2 also gives LSPI protection, and supposedly better wear protection for cam-chain driven engines.
No, Dexos 2 is for either Gas or diesel.
Yes, I see that ... but dexos2 is targeted/marketed for Europe and other countries, as where dexos1 is marketed for the USA and Asia. Must be those low load use vehicles in North America driving dexos1.
Do US car manufacturers recommend the use of dexos2 in their gasoline engines?
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
We were discussing dexos2 oils, though, as they will give you an HTHS of 3.5 or higher while also providing LSPI protection (if you care about that). Something like Pennzoil 5W30 Euro L or M1 5W30 ESP.
dexos2 is for diesel applications ... but dexos1 Gen2 also gives LSPI protection, and supposedly better wear protection for cam-chain driven engines.
No, Dexos 2 is for either Gas or diesel.
Yes, I see that ... but dexos2 is targeted/marketed for Europe and other countries, as where dexos1 is marketed for the USA and Asia. Must be those low load use vehicles in North America driving dexos1.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
