Understanding HTHS

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I came across this article while I was lurking in my "Lubricants" folder. Appoligies if this has been previousely posted.

What I was really reading about was the relationship with pistons, liners and rings with lubrication and friction. It was interesting to note that at mid-stroke the rings and piston are at hydrodynamic lubrication and at TDC and BDC they were at, either, mixed or boundry or both. Oil friction was highest at mid stroke with least wear. ZDDP and Moly reduced friction at TDC and BDC, with Moly being slightly better, but wear increased with TDC being worse. HTHS and shear played a big part in the mid stroke area along with oil film strength. They ran tests with 30w, 20w-50 and 10w. The least wear, and greatest friction, was the 20w-50. The auther stated a concern with the use of thin oils in this area but also stated engine designers are expirementing and using various metal coatings on pistons and rings to mitigate the use of lighter oils and reduce friction for economy and enviromental issues.

Here is the article:


Understanding HTHS

When oils started being graded, when VI was starting to be used, the only oils that were in use was oil that came out of the ground, and was refined.

These oils displayed "Newtonian behavior", didn't matter how hard you worked them, they were the same viscosity all the way through.

By "worked", I mean shear...for example, two plates (or a bearing surface) traveling at 1m per second, and 1mm apart would have a shear rate of 1000/s.

Then we developed the technologies to change the behaviors of the oil with viscosity index improver's, and by observation, the new grades did not reflect their grade in their wear behavior...so they started looking at why.

What was found that at very high shear rates, the viscosity modifier additives started to "flatten" out and the apparent viscosity if the oil dropped...in the above plate example, 1mm separation, the rate is like 1km/second. the shear rate in this case is 1,000,000/s

Given that the shear rate is the surface speed/the gap, there's places (like the loaded side of the bearing) where the oil film thickness (gap) is so small that the loaded part of the bearing is in this high shear regime.

That's the "HS" part of the equation.

Re the 150C, that's the sort of temperature that is seen in the big end bearings, even IF the sump is tooling along at 100C.

Most of the heat that the oil deals with is related to the work that the engine does on it through shearing (note them mechanical "force", not breaking it up)...bearings have a big temperature rise. Pistons and rings do too, but the oil there is on the cylinder walls and the heat goes straight to the coolant.

So High temperature - think big ends. High Shear - think big ends.

That's why it came into being.
 
ka9mnx You're preaching to the choir
grin2.gif
 
Ooops! Now I know where I got this article. It's a word-for-word post from Shannow back in April. Sorry :-(
 
Originally Posted By: ka9mnx
Ooops! Now I know where I got this article. It's a word-for-word post from Shannow back in April. Sorry :-(


LOL...
thumbsup2.gif
 
^ said plainly: ignore kinematic viscosity at 100C and focus instead on HTHS, the viscosity that actually matters.
 
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
^ said plainly: ignore kinematic viscosity at 100C and focus instead on HTHS, the viscosity that actually matters.


Absolutely!!!
 
Another way of representing the engine shear rates...clearly speed dependent...10^6 shear rate is the point for HTHS



Here's the paper where they worked out the "apparent" i.e. real viscosity in an engine, by tapping into a main bearing with an oil source at constant pressure and measuring the flow rate into the bearing (can explain that flow rate later if people want).

Newtonian oils (mongrades), have the same viscosity at low, medium, and high shear rates.

Non-Newtonians thin with shear, as shown below, and display the protection characteristics of lower "grades".



For those that care, the Harman Index is the ratio between the viscosity if the oil was Newtonian, and the high shear viscosity in the baove chart...i.e. how affected the lubricant is by polymeric viscosity improvers.

That's why (additives permitting), I would run a 20W-20 in an engine calling for an ILSAC 30.
And my Navara diesel was happy with 5W30 A3/B4 … 3.6 HTHS and "30" grade.
 
*All I remember from BITOG is CAFE be darned and to use an oil with a minimum HTHS of 3.0 for my vehicles .
 
Originally Posted By: ka9mnx
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
^ said plainly: ignore kinematic viscosity at 100C and focus instead on HTHS, the viscosity that actually matters.

Absolutely!!!

I'd actually argue that an oil with a relatively low 100C viscosity and a relatively high HTHS (compared to competitors of the same grade) would give a great combination of wear protection at critical spots in the engine as well as lower general frictional losses (=better gas mileage).
Too bad many of the big makers don't share HTHS for all their oils...
 
More great info. Thanks Shannow! I'm still digesting them. Hard to see the fine print with my old eyes.

You have me thinking, in my climate, I could get by (additives permitting) with a straight weight. But I was thinking 30w? Probably won't because I'm happy with the HTHS of the oils I use. May try the 10w-30 in the Ranger next time...
 
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: ka9mnx
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
^ said plainly: ignore kinematic viscosity at 100C and focus instead on HTHS, the viscosity that actually matters.

Absolutely!!!

I'd actually argue that an oil with a relatively low 100C viscosity and a relatively high HTHS (compared to competitors of the same grade) would give a great combination of wear protection at critical spots in the engine as well as lower general frictional losses (=better gas mileage).
Too bad many of the big makers don't share HTHS for all their oils...


I cannot argue with you. Makes very good sense. I tend to look at the KV 40C for fuel economy too since that's where the engine is cold(er) and there is a lot of oil "drag". But looking at what I use, I've ignored my own advice!
 
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi

I'd actually argue that an oil with a relatively low 100C viscosity and a relatively high HTHS (compared to competitors of the same grade) would give a great combination of wear protection at critical spots in the engine as well as lower general frictional losses (=better gas mileage).
Too bad many of the big makers don't share HTHS for all their oils...


This is what makes me confident in my choice of using M1 ESP Formula 5w30 in place of M1 ESP Formula 0w40 (which is now factory fill on the Corvettes, and recommended by GM for use in the 2014-2018s too) The 0w40 might have a higher viscosity at 100c (12.9 vs 12.1) but the 5w30 actually has a slightly better HTHS (3.58 vs 3.53) I know it's not a huge difference, but I'm happy that it's even close to the same HTHS, while most likely being the more shear stable of the two choices. And either of these two choices is a step up from the regular M1 5w30, which has an HTHS of only 3.1, which I think is just a tad low for those times when I want to have some fun and make a few full throttle blasts.
 
Originally Posted By: Patman
This is what makes me confident in my choice of using M1 ESP Formula 5w30 in place of M1 ESP Formula 0w40 (which is now factory fill on the Corvettes, and recommended by GM for use in the 2014-2018s too) The 0w40 might have a higher viscosity at 100c (12.9 vs 12.1) but the 5w30 actually has a slightly better HTHS (3.58 vs 3.53) I know it's not a huge difference, but I'm happy that it's even close to the same HTHS, while most likely being the more shear stable of the two choices. And either of these two choices is a step up from the regular M1 5w30, which has an HTHS of only 3.1, which I think is just a tad low for those times when I want to have some fun and make a few full throttle blasts.

Is availability the reason why you didn't use the GM-recommended 0W40?
 
Originally Posted By: turnbowm

Is availability the reason why you didn't use the GM-recommended 0W40?


Yes! The new 0w40 is currently only available at a few GM dealers, and most of the ones that do have it will not sell it to the general public yet (most are only using it on 2019s that need oil changes, due to the low supply so far). That led me to finding out about the 5w30 version of the same oil, and it is available in a lot of places here (at a very high price that just went up to $17.29 per liter now) and is also dexos2 certified, so it should be warranty approved also.
 
Originally Posted By: Patman

This is what makes me confident in my choice of using M1 ESP Formula 5w30 in place of M1 ESP Formula 0w40 (which is now factory fill on the Corvettes, and recommended by GM for use in the 2014-2018s too) The 0w40 might have a higher viscosity at 100c (12.9 vs 12.1) but the 5w30 actually has a slightly better HTHS (3.58 vs 3.53) I know it's not a huge difference, but I'm happy that it's even close to the same HTHS, while most likely being the more shear stable of the two choices. And either of these two choices is a step up from the regular M1 5w30, which has an HTHS of only 3.1, which I think is just a tad low for those times when I want to have some fun and make a few full throttle blasts.

That ESP 5W30 has some very impressive properties and I used it for a couple of changes, but I didn't like what I had to pay for it and especially disliked dealing with liter bottles (couldn't even find 4/5l jugs online). I recently used Valvoline AFS 5W30 partly because it had a higher HTHS for a Walmart 5W30 d1G2 oil (3.2??), but bought M1 5W30 last time because of the rebate. Sometimes I say I don't really care what I pay for my oil, but my actions often do not match that sentiment.

Hey, this all reminds me that Molakule once told us that he was working on an LSPI-resistant 0W30 with an HTHS of 3.3...wonder what happened there?
 
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