Whose uncle is this Tony character? I don't understand why people watch junk videos, much less take them seriously.
Uncle Tony on oil filters.
- Thread starter B1974
- Start date
Yesterday? So is that his 3rd video on his nonsense explanation of oil filter bypass valves?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Why get it right when you can get triple the clicks walking back your awful takes by not knowing what the hell you are talking about!Yesterday? So is that his 3rd video on his nonsense explanation of oil filter bypass valves?
It must be a new click bait tactic for YouTubers ...Why get it right when you can get triple the clicks walking back your awful takes by not knowing what the hell you are talking about!
I saw the video and was not impressed. Reading thru the comments several people tried to explain where he was wrong but he was not having any of that. His channel is just so so and I wish people would not make anybody on social media "an expert" because that is exactly how misinformation spreads.
Uncle Tony is a analog guy in a digital world and needs to stay in his swim lane of classic Mopar vehicles. He is about as shade tree as they come but falls into the Youtube trap of producing content for the sake of producing content and puts out these tongue wagging videos he is out of his element.
Uncle Tony knows more about engines and chassis than most of us combined here ever knew.
But as is typical of almost ALL race mechanics and engine builders they know little about oil and filters other than what they think worked or broke and some basic grade temp and clearance rules.
This Forum is constantly and sometimes literally dissecting oils and filters to the n'th degree.
This is not 99.99997 % of the rest of the population.
Uncle Tony has one of the best automotive channels on YT that other mechanics and engineer might enjoy.
Especially relating to Chrysler products.
So if filters aren't bypassing - why as he stated - does he always find big metal particulate in the oil galleries during teardowns? (yes I have some theory and thoughts on this)
- Ken
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Did any of the vocal "filter experts" here post on Uncle Tony's 2nd or 1st video and did you post under a different screenname?
No use preaching to this choir - might as well preach to that "other" choir and congregation.
I usually refute misinformation on automotive channels - but there is so much out there I'm just tired of doing it. And to what effect? Then you get ugly pushback because its seems EVERYONE seem's P.O'd these days and just wants to argue on any media platform. - Ken
No use preaching to this choir - might as well preach to that "other" choir and congregation.
I usually refute misinformation on automotive channels - but there is so much out there I'm just tired of doing it. And to what effect? Then you get ugly pushback because its seems EVERYONE seem's P.O'd these days and just wants to argue on any media platform. - Ken
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Are you sure about that?
His video about the HEMI lifter failures stated that the lifter bores weren't directly lubricated, rather they were oiled indirectly by crank splash, which is wildly incorrect, the bores are all pressure lubed, which is why the huge chunk of block material between the cam and lifters and the crankshaft (which he blamed for the failure) is irrelevant.
He wasn't familiar with how the HEMI is lubricated at all actually, despite there being several diagrams available online, which is part of the reason his take was so bad.
He has some extremely bad hot takes that aren't isolated to this oil filter scenario. He seems very inclined to shoot from the hip with some poorly scrutinized theory and then walk it back in "correction" videos after getting called out. That's not what I would consider the hallmark of expertise, but I'm sure it generates more traffic.
I'm not a regular consumer of his channel, or any of these channels for that matter, I'd much rather look at stuff posted by clinebarger or mattd on here, who aren't pontificating or trying to drum-up clicks and traffic for a social media side hustle. But the stuff of his I have seen shared on here has been pretty bad and certainly doesn't prompt interest to consume more of it. YMMV of course.
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He understands everything but oil and filters? ... those really aren't rocket science. Clearly he's got major misconceptions going on with oil filters. Engineers would find lots of misconceptions and misinformation in his videos.
Nobody claimed oil filters don't bypass, but they bypass way less than he thinks, and the bypass function doesn't happen like he thinks. The coil or leaf spring in the dome end is not a bypass valve or a "pressure differential regulator spring", and there are not "two bypass valves". He's all over the place with misconceptions.
Of course, filters used on modified engines running thick oil and high volume oil pumps will make a filter bypass more, especially if the engine is raced before the oil is fully hot. Ever been to drag races on a cool night and see all the cars sit in the staging lanes for an hour or more. By the time they roll up to the lights, and fire up the engine the oil is pretty cold. Engine fires up, guy does a big burn out at high RPM, then launches and goes down the track at redline. If that doesn't cause filter bypassing, then nothing will, lol.
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I know for a while here many guys thought the Wix combo valve (on the cheap NAPA jobbers) worked by the cartridge spring compressing allowing the bypass. Didn't make sense to me without a large pressure gradient - something that didn't seem probable around the cartridge - though with the media absorbing and passing fluid - its more complicated than "equal pressure" around the cartridge. I worked with plastics engineers on mold flow analysis and assumptions and results after running an " all nighter" simulation using FEA results could be surprising. We used to place bets on outcomes
He is likely not an engineer - so he has little knowledge of physics and fluid dynamics other that what he absorbed through decades of experience and likely chatting with those who DO know.
We are deep in the Oil and filter forest here. Others are not.
He should really step up ( since he stepped in it) an do a "Pat Goss" Motorweek move and invite a Fram or Wix engineer to come chat about filters - and not just the sales rep. I have a Wix sales rep down the street from me. Nice guy but ... .
On the cold oil dragstrip scenario - thick in = thick out, so the pressure Δ may be less than you think.
Hopefully they are running a screen and not a paper canister - or on Lo-Po - twin remote FL1A
- Ken
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Bold part ... bingo. He must be listening and absorbing misconceptions from others if he's claiming some of the things he does about oil filters.I know for a while here many guys thought the Wix combo valve (on the cheap NAPA jobbers) worked by the cartridge spring compressing allowing the bypass. Didn't make sense to me without a large pressure gradient - something that didn't seem probable around the cartridge - though with the media absorbing and passing fluid - its more complicated than "equal pressure" around the cartridge. I worked with plastics engineers on mold flow analysis and assumptions and results after running an " all nighter" simulation using FEA results could be surprising. We used to place bets on outcomes
He is likely not an engineer - so he has little knowledge of physics and fluid dynamics other that what he absorbed through decades of experience and likely chatting with those who DO know.
Thick in, thick out ... yes, but the flow rate when the oil is thicker increases the dP across the filter. In my drag strip with cold oil at redline RPM example, an oil filter will be producing lots of dP across the media and the filter will go into bypass in a use condition like that. And it will bypass through the bypass valve, not by lifting the entire media cartridge up. If that's how oil filters bypassed, like Uncle Tony thinks, there would be a lot of ADBVs swept onto the engine and causing major engine failures. The coil or leaf spring in the dome end needs to be stiff enough to keep all the filter guts tight and firmly in place during use. That's it's only purpose, it has nothing to do with bypassing oil or being a "pressure differential regulator" as Uncle Tony claimed in his second video.
By this guys logic my camaro is in constant bypass as hot idle is just under 45 psi. The pressure on the bypass spring has to hit spec PSI not the line pressure. Thick oil or clogging of the media is the only thing that's going to do that.
dnewton3
Staff member
Then his YT videos should stick to what he knows; that of "engines and chassis". When he posts crap about filters and oils that is misleading, or downright wrong, he deserves to be sliced open and gutted. If a perceived expert ventures off the reservation into territory he only "thinks" he knows well, he's opened himself up to the fair criticism of others who actually do know more than he does.
I applaud his honestly in posting "correction" videos, but at some point it just reveals his complete and utter lack of understanding of his topic; how many times should he be allowed to get it wrong before getting it right?
All he's proven to me with these videos is that he is worthy of my ignoring him. I rank him right down there with PF.
We should invite him onto this forum. Then we could have a discussion. Hard to have a proper give-and-take in YT.
We could also use a couple filter engineers here.
I do agree, he shouldn't have gone off half cocked - but he may not have had knowledge of his error.
He is correct on the major point he was making, and I will say it is eye opening and true that when many a motor get trashed at high rpm and load that the filter bypass is likely open I Recall him stating that the oil feed and galleries are usually all filled with debris from the carnage. That stuff doesn't get there if the filter is intact and not in bypass.
- Ken
We could also use a couple filter engineers here.
I do agree, he shouldn't have gone off half cocked - but he may not have had knowledge of his error.
He is correct on the major point he was making, and I will say it is eye opening and true that when many a motor get trashed at high rpm and load that the filter bypass is likely open I Recall him stating that the oil feed and galleries are usually all filled with debris from the carnage. That stuff doesn't get there if the filter is intact and not in bypass.
- Ken
Go back to my drag racing with cold oil example. Of course if engine bearings start destroying themselves, there will be debris in the oil feed to the pump. And I'd venture to say damaged engines that have debris down stream of the filter were being beat hard while that was occurring and causing the filter to bypass while it was eating itself alive. So yes, you would expect to see some of that engine damage contamination in the engine after the filter.
And again, it's not a debate of "does an oil filter bypass or not", but rather how the filter bypasses, and under what conditions it can bypass. The oil filter does not bypass by lifting the whole filter cartridge inside the can like he claims. The coil spring or leaf spring in the dome end of the can is not a bypass spring, or a "pressure differential regulator" spring as he claims. And oil filters don't go into bypass at any RPM above idle. He somehow thinks the absolute engine oil pressure makes the filter bypass, when it's really just the dP across the filter. The engine oil pressure could be 100 PSI, but the dP across the filter could only be 5 PSI as an example. Seems he doesn't really understand how an oil filter functions in conjunction with an engine oiling system.
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I remember as a kid doing an oil change on my grandfather's car, I just had to cut the old spin on filter apart and see what made it tick. Alas - the spring !! I couldn't figure out what an oil filter needed a spring. My grandfather explained it thus: It keeps the insides, the filter, the gasket, in place. If you're going down a dirt road and getting bounced around, you don't want the insides of the filter to move out of place. The spring helps keep everything where it needs to be.
It made too much sense then . . . still makes a whole lotta sense.
It made too much sense then . . . still makes a whole lotta sense.
While I agre with you to a good degree…
It is highly incumbent upon people to find information and educate and learn for themselves what is really the truth….
People must learn to explore, read, comprehend and think critically for themselves.
Yea there are negatives potentially about freedom of speech and or expression.
And the freedom to be wrong and say ignorant, uneducated and or false things.
What concerns me much more than misinformation is either coercive speech and or regulated speech. And it is extremely obvious to me that certain groups get favorable treatment while others are totally done away with… I know that certain groups of the supposed “ good guys” get to keep their hate filled websites… While others….are now gone.
Yet in reality both should have had their sites taken down… But that did not happen. Because… someone has put their hand on that scale and decided who was supposedly the “good guys” and who were the “ bad guys”.
With both sides equally spewing misinformation, disinformation and hateful rhetoric.
That… concerns me far, far, far greater.
I'm pretty sure non of the filter dissectors here have ever run a car a significant amount of time/miles without any filtration.
So the real world experience and knowledge base in this field is exactly zero, it's all just what they think, based on stuff they saw on the internet.
Only if you actually do stuff, you know what you are talking about after that.
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