ISO9001 is a quality control standard (a rather easy one to meet but still a plus) and has nothing to do with efficiency of filter performance. TS16949 is an ISO management standard. Again, nice to know but says nothing about the filter.
Ultra8 Oil Filter /Nippon For Honda CUT OPEN NEW
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As an update to this thread, doing some further research on the Nippon Ultra 8 filters for another recent thread I came upon warranty information posted on the NAPA website that wasn't noted here. This is what's stated for the Nippon Ultra 8 filter warranty:
"Warrantied to be free of defects in workmanship and materials within THIRTY DAYS (30) from date of purchase. This warranty is not transferable."
Contrast that to the many other reputable aftermarket brands (eg. Fram, Purolator, Wix, and many others) that warranty their filters for length of the vehicle manufacturers recommended oci. Meaning if something were to happen to the engine and the filter is determined to be the cause, when used as recommended the user/purchaser would be covered by the filter manufacturer. Also as there was much discussion in this thread implying/stating Honda oem, obviously any true Honda OEM would fall in line with the aftermarkets, and NOT be warranted for just 30 days.
Also looking closer at Nippon filters, it seems that not only do they make filters that similar/same in color to Honda and another similar/same in color to Hyundai/Kia, there is another that is similar in color to a Mazda and there may be others. Why would an aftermarket filter manufacturer make filters designed to 'look like' many different oems, but yet not be OEM? I used the term knockoff earlier in this thread, and the one of the interpretations/meanings is an exact copy. Another though is just a copy or imitation. Sematics aside, obviously Nippon filters are made to look similar to some OEM filters on the exterior. Readers can draw their own conclusion for the reason for that.
All that said, none of the related information may matter to some buyers but at least one can make an informed decision regarding the purchase of Nippon filters.
"Warrantied to be free of defects in workmanship and materials within THIRTY DAYS (30) from date of purchase. This warranty is not transferable."
Contrast that to the many other reputable aftermarket brands (eg. Fram, Purolator, Wix, and many others) that warranty their filters for length of the vehicle manufacturers recommended oci. Meaning if something were to happen to the engine and the filter is determined to be the cause, when used as recommended the user/purchaser would be covered by the filter manufacturer. Also as there was much discussion in this thread implying/stating Honda oem, obviously any true Honda OEM would fall in line with the aftermarkets, and NOT be warranted for just 30 days.
Also looking closer at Nippon filters, it seems that not only do they make filters that similar/same in color to Honda and another similar/same in color to Hyundai/Kia, there is another that is similar in color to a Mazda and there may be others. Why would an aftermarket filter manufacturer make filters designed to 'look like' many different oems, but yet not be OEM? I used the term knockoff earlier in this thread, and the one of the interpretations/meanings is an exact copy. Another though is just a copy or imitation. Sematics aside, obviously Nippon filters are made to look similar to some OEM filters on the exterior. Readers can draw their own conclusion for the reason for that.
All that said, none of the related information may matter to some buyers but at least one can make an informed decision regarding the purchase of Nippon filters.
That warranty is essentially par for the course for many jobber type filters. Nonetheless, we have to be cognizant as to whether one's jurisdiction would allow such a limitation, but that's another matter altogether.
Quite a contrast, a supposed Honda, H/K OEM (not), with a warranty equivalent to a jobber filter? I looked up the warranty of two made by Purolator jobber filters that I'm aware of, Group7 and ProMotive. Both filters have been posted on this board and havebeen/are used by members. Their warranty is essentially the same as other reputable aftermarkets previously mentioned. Warranted for length of the oci when used as recommended by the vehicle manufacturer.Group7 ProMotive I would assume the warranty of other jobber filters and 'made fors' like Valvoline and QS/ProLine made by Purolator is much the same. And though I can't prove it at the moment, I'd think jobber filters made by Fram, Wix or any other reputable manufacturer would also be similar.
As for whether Nippon U8's 30 day warranty as written at NAPA would be considered legal, no idea. I'm unaware of any prohibition of such a written 30 day warranty. I suppose one could try to take them to court after the fact, in the event of some failure and find out. That is in the case of Ultra8 Nippon filters you find out who U8/Nippon oil filters is.
Again, aware that Ultra 8/Nippon warranty and all the other information may not matter to some, which is fine. Price, construction or combination of factors may be the most important. Interestingly, Napa regular price of the U8 is only $.50-$1.00 less than a Napa Gold for the Kia Soul thread recently posted and Honda filter posted here.
Takes me back to what I said in beginning of this thread, with all the reputable, reasonably priced, readily available US made filters with known specs and a published warranty aligned with the OEM, no reason for me to chase the Ultra8/Nippon filter.
As for whether Nippon U8's 30 day warranty as written at NAPA would be considered legal, no idea. I'm unaware of any prohibition of such a written 30 day warranty. I suppose one could try to take them to court after the fact, in the event of some failure and find out. That is in the case of Ultra8 Nippon filters you find out who U8/Nippon oil filters is.
Again, aware that Ultra 8/Nippon warranty and all the other information may not matter to some, which is fine. Price, construction or combination of factors may be the most important. Interestingly, Napa regular price of the U8 is only $.50-$1.00 less than a Napa Gold for the Kia Soul thread recently posted and Honda filter posted here.
Takes me back to what I said in beginning of this thread, with all the reputable, reasonably priced, readily available US made filters with known specs and a published warranty aligned with the OEM, no reason for me to chase the Ultra8/Nippon filter.
Well, just because they try to make it look OEM doesn't mean it's not a jobber filter.
And certain other jobber filters definitely have better warranties, as you point out.
As for whether or not such warranties are legal, in at least certain cases and certain jurisdictions, a product is expected to work as designed, when used as directed. Even a conservative OCI is 3 months or 3,000 miles, and in at least some jurisdictions, one would be able to successfully argue that the product should be able to do that.
I'd also wonder if it's possible that the short warranty refers to something NAPA themselves is offering. One of the sites I order Bosch Premiums from lists the same 30 day warranty, yet that is clearly not the case for Bosch Premiums. Another site lists 12 months and 12,000 miles for every filter - Bosch, Full, and NPN. So, I confess that I'm thoroughly confused now.
As for whether or not such warranties are legal, in at least certain cases and certain jurisdictions, a product is expected to work as designed, when used as directed. Even a conservative OCI is 3 months or 3,000 miles, and in at least some jurisdictions, one would be able to successfully argue that the product should be able to do that.
I'd also wonder if it's possible that the short warranty refers to something NAPA themselves is offering. One of the sites I order Bosch Premiums from lists the same 30 day warranty, yet that is clearly not the case for Bosch Premiums. Another site lists 12 months and 12,000 miles for every filter - Bosch, Full, and NPN. So, I confess that I'm thoroughly confused now.
Unlike some posts here I never claimed the U8 to be and OEM filter, or a jobber filter. But obviously the 30 day warranty is not similar to all jobber filters. And NAPA listing and selling a jobber filters with their standard consumer line is possible but imo out of the ordinary. But if it is a 'jobber filter', then it's certainly not in class with the OEM's or even other reputable aftermarkets, as has been implied. That was the point.
As for what 'is expected' and what one 'should be able to do' with an unstated warranty, good luck with that in court. And bottom line again, there's no need to even be concerned such question marks or unknowns with all the reputable aftemarkets with published specs and warranty.
As for the U8/Nippon 30 day warranty, whether from Napa or Nippon is the only warranty I've seen published. Anyone is welcome to find and post a published U8/Nippon warranty that would supercede of the 30 day warranty posted. Lacking that, at this point the 30 warranty is what is published.
As for any comparison to Bosch Premium, Bosch has their own website which states the Bosch Premium warranty. It's been covered on this board before and is similar to other reputable aftermarkets as already stated. 'If authentic Bosch,' that warranty would supersede anything extraneous stated on a store site. Bosch is trusted name brand, and other than making filters a comparison to the topic'd Ultra8/Nippon is not analogous imo. No idea about Full or NPN, but if like Bosch they put their name on it, have a company product website with a published warranty, then I'd say that too is ultimate warranty.
And the only confusion about the Nippon/U8 imo, was the information implied/stated in this thread could/can not be verified.
As for what 'is expected' and what one 'should be able to do' with an unstated warranty, good luck with that in court. And bottom line again, there's no need to even be concerned such question marks or unknowns with all the reputable aftemarkets with published specs and warranty.
As for the U8/Nippon 30 day warranty, whether from Napa or Nippon is the only warranty I've seen published. Anyone is welcome to find and post a published U8/Nippon warranty that would supercede of the 30 day warranty posted. Lacking that, at this point the 30 warranty is what is published.
As for any comparison to Bosch Premium, Bosch has their own website which states the Bosch Premium warranty. It's been covered on this board before and is similar to other reputable aftermarkets as already stated. 'If authentic Bosch,' that warranty would supersede anything extraneous stated on a store site. Bosch is trusted name brand, and other than making filters a comparison to the topic'd Ultra8/Nippon is not analogous imo. No idea about Full or NPN, but if like Bosch they put their name on it, have a company product website with a published warranty, then I'd say that too is ultimate warranty.
And the only confusion about the Nippon/U8 imo, was the information implied/stated in this thread could/can not be verified.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Unlike some posts here I never claimed the U8 to be and OEM filter, or a jobber filter.
Absolutely. It is out of the ordinary for it to be marketed the way it is. I'm not sure about how the NAPA USA website is laid out, but Canada's is very, very basic. You enter your application and it'll list all the filters with line code, part number, part, and comment.
As for the warranty issues, yes I'd say good luck in court, too. That's why I do have some skepticism about what the warranty actually is. My reference to the Bosch Premium's warranty on a couple sites wasn't to disparage the Bosch Premium (which I use regularly), but to show that sometimes websites display whatever the heck they want.
For reference, here's the warranty information from Napa Canada about the Ultra-8 Brand 3611307, which is said to fit my G37. "Free of Defects in Material & Workmanship during the Period of Sevice Life Recommended by the Engine or Equipment Manufacturer. See Complete Manufacturer's Warranty."
Now, at least that sounds more plausible. Of course, there's no link to the "Complete Manufacturer's Warranty," but there may be something on the box at NAPA. And no, I'm not that curious to find out. I can get Bosch for under $5, why gamble with something unknown that will undoubtedly cost more than that.
Unlike some posts here I never claimed the U8 to be and OEM filter, or a jobber filter.
Absolutely. It is out of the ordinary for it to be marketed the way it is. I'm not sure about how the NAPA USA website is laid out, but Canada's is very, very basic. You enter your application and it'll list all the filters with line code, part number, part, and comment.
As for the warranty issues, yes I'd say good luck in court, too. That's why I do have some skepticism about what the warranty actually is. My reference to the Bosch Premium's warranty on a couple sites wasn't to disparage the Bosch Premium (which I use regularly), but to show that sometimes websites display whatever the heck they want.
For reference, here's the warranty information from Napa Canada about the Ultra-8 Brand 3611307, which is said to fit my G37. "Free of Defects in Material & Workmanship during the Period of Sevice Life Recommended by the Engine or Equipment Manufacturer. See Complete Manufacturer's Warranty."
Now, at least that sounds more plausible. Of course, there's no link to the "Complete Manufacturer's Warranty," but there may be something on the box at NAPA. And no, I'm not that curious to find out. I can get Bosch for under $5, why gamble with something unknown that will undoubtedly cost more than that.
Originally Posted By: Garak
...For reference, here's the warranty information from Napa Canada about the Ultra-8 Brand 3611307, which is said to fit my G37. "Free of Defects in Material & Workmanship during the Period of Sevice Life Recommended by the Engine or Equipment Manufacturer. See Complete Manufacturer's Warranty."
Now, at least that sounds more plausible. Of course, there's no link to the "Complete Manufacturer's Warranty," but there may be something on the box at NAPA....
I'll say that NAPA Can. warranty is more in line with reputable aftermarket filters, but it does appear to ultimately defer to the manufacturer. And as said, no joy finding any U8/Nippon website warranty information for the U8. Distributed by Altrom, but that's where the information appears to end. Perhaps sometime a member will be able to post if there is any reference to a U8/Nippon warranty with specific contact information on the box. Considering everything else about the U8 at this point I'm doubtful though that such information is printed on the box either.
I conceded early on that the U8 does 'look' to be a well made filter. But, we agree that with the many U8 unknowns, and availability of reasonably priced reputable aftermarkets, 'for me' no need to roll the dice on this one.
Further, if for a vehicle still under warranty, no way.
...For reference, here's the warranty information from Napa Canada about the Ultra-8 Brand 3611307, which is said to fit my G37. "Free of Defects in Material & Workmanship during the Period of Sevice Life Recommended by the Engine or Equipment Manufacturer. See Complete Manufacturer's Warranty."
Now, at least that sounds more plausible. Of course, there's no link to the "Complete Manufacturer's Warranty," but there may be something on the box at NAPA....
I'll say that NAPA Can. warranty is more in line with reputable aftermarket filters, but it does appear to ultimately defer to the manufacturer. And as said, no joy finding any U8/Nippon website warranty information for the U8. Distributed by Altrom, but that's where the information appears to end. Perhaps sometime a member will be able to post if there is any reference to a U8/Nippon warranty with specific contact information on the box. Considering everything else about the U8 at this point I'm doubtful though that such information is printed on the box either.
I conceded early on that the U8 does 'look' to be a well made filter. But, we agree that with the many U8 unknowns, and availability of reasonably priced reputable aftermarkets, 'for me' no need to roll the dice on this one.
I'd love to get my hands on an example and see what the box has to say, if anything, since we've had no luck finding warranty stuff on the web. But, considering that NAPA Canada isn't likely to offer this filter at a wonderful price, I'm not that interested.
NAPA Canada's prices can be pretty nutty and I don't have any intentions of spending $10+ on a no name filter. Of course, that's assuming the local NAPA stocks it. They don't carry filters for my G in stock, even though it shares the filter with many agricultural applications and we're in Saskatchewan, but that's another matter.
So, more concisely, I'm not looking to spend $10+ on a jobber type filter I have to order in.
NAPA Canada's prices can be pretty nutty and I don't have any intentions of spending $10+ on a no name filter. Of course, that's assuming the local NAPA stocks it. They don't carry filters for my G in stock, even though it shares the filter with many agricultural applications and we're in Saskatchewan, but that's another matter.
So, more concisely, I'm not looking to spend $10+ on a jobber type filter I have to order in.
For what it's worth, I've used Nippon filters for 24 years with total satisfaction. In the 1990's they were still being made in Japan. For the past several years, the ones I buy have been made in Malaysia. Still stoutly built. I can't speak for the Altrom Nippons made in China. I wouldn't use them for the minor price difference. By the way, one of the best online sites for Nippons is Rock Auto. I buy mine in Virginia at Bap-Geon.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
You made my point. With the many reputable, easily obtained, known spec/efficiency, reasonably priced made in the US filters for this application, no need for me chase this unknown spec made in China filter. No need to roll the dice on this one.
Its not hard to find. They have them at any NAPA Parts store for a reasonable price.
You made my point. With the many reputable, easily obtained, known spec/efficiency, reasonably priced made in the US filters for this application, no need for me chase this unknown spec made in China filter. No need to roll the dice on this one.
Its not hard to find. They have them at any NAPA Parts store for a reasonable price.
Originally Posted By: David1
Originally Posted By: sayjac
You made my point. With the many reputable, easily obtained, known spec/efficiency, reasonably priced made in the US filters for this application, no need for me chase this unknown spec made in China filter. No need to roll the dice on this one.
Its not hard to find. They have them at any NAPA Parts store for a reasonable price.
Hard to find is not the main issue. I realize and have realized they are sold at Napa.
Main point again is, " With the many reputable, easily obtained, known spec/efficiency, reasonably priced made in the US filters for this application, no need for me chase this unknown spec made in China filter. No need to roll the dice on this one."
Even if the "chase" is just to Napa, not need for me buy a U8 for 'all' the reasons mentioned. And as a specific example, now that I'm getting Napa Gold's for ~$3.70 with known specs made in US, that's what I'll buy with a trip to Napa. Not the Honda oem wannabe look alike U8.
And at least the point that the Nippon/Ultra8 is NOT Honda oem is now perfectly clear. Or should be.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
You made my point. With the many reputable, easily obtained, known spec/efficiency, reasonably priced made in the US filters for this application, no need for me chase this unknown spec made in China filter. No need to roll the dice on this one.
Its not hard to find. They have them at any NAPA Parts store for a reasonable price.
Hard to find is not the main issue. I realize and have realized they are sold at Napa.
Main point again is, " With the many reputable, easily obtained, known spec/efficiency, reasonably priced made in the US filters for this application, no need for me chase this unknown spec made in China filter. No need to roll the dice on this one."
Even if the "chase" is just to Napa, not need for me buy a U8 for 'all' the reasons mentioned. And as a specific example, now that I'm getting Napa Gold's for ~$3.70 with known specs made in US, that's what I'll buy with a trip to Napa. Not the Honda oem wannabe look alike U8.
And at least the point that the Nippon/Ultra8 is NOT Honda oem is now perfectly clear. Or should be.
Originally Posted By: NormanBuntz
For what it's worth, I've used Nippon filters for 24 years with total satisfaction. In the 1990's they were still being made in Japan. For the past several years, the ones I buy have been made in Malaysia. Still stoutly built. I can't speak for the Altrom Nippons made in China. I wouldn't use them for the minor price difference. By the way, one of the best online sites for Nippons is Rock Auto. I buy mine in Virginia at Bap-Geon.
WOW 24 Years you have been using NIPPON Oil filters?
What about other parts like Fuel Filters or AT Filters?
For what it's worth, I've used Nippon filters for 24 years with total satisfaction. In the 1990's they were still being made in Japan. For the past several years, the ones I buy have been made in Malaysia. Still stoutly built. I can't speak for the Altrom Nippons made in China. I wouldn't use them for the minor price difference. By the way, one of the best online sites for Nippons is Rock Auto. I buy mine in Virginia at Bap-Geon.
WOW 24 Years you have been using NIPPON Oil filters?
What about other parts like Fuel Filters or AT Filters?
Originally Posted By: Realtech214
Any filter should be fine for 3000Mi oci, even a [censored] can
Hasn't the OCOD been replace by the Puroleaker as the most hated oil filter in BITOG nation?
Any filter should be fine for 3000Mi oci, even a [censored] can
Hasn't the OCOD been replace by the Puroleaker as the most hated oil filter in BITOG nation?
Originally Posted By: Cooper
Originally Posted By: Realtech214
Any filter should be fine for 3000Mi oci, even a [censored] can
Hasn't the OCOD been replace by the Puroleaker as the most hated oil filter in BITOG nation?
not for the 3000 mile OCI person.
also have you seen purolators as of late????
Originally Posted By: Realtech214
Any filter should be fine for 3000Mi oci, even a [censored] can
Hasn't the OCOD been replace by the Puroleaker as the most hated oil filter in BITOG nation?
not for the 3000 mile OCI person.
also have you seen purolators as of late????
Originally Posted By: David1
Originally Posted By: Cooper
Originally Posted By: Realtech214
Any filter should be fine for 3000Mi oci, even a [censored] can
Hasn't the OCOD been replace by the Puroleaker as the most hated oil filter in BITOG nation?
not for the 3000 mile OCI person.
also have you seen purolators as of late????
Yes, the media is essentially falling apart....
Originally Posted By: Cooper
Originally Posted By: Realtech214
Any filter should be fine for 3000Mi oci, even a [censored] can
Hasn't the OCOD been replace by the Puroleaker as the most hated oil filter in BITOG nation?
not for the 3000 mile OCI person.
also have you seen purolators as of late????
Yes, the media is essentially falling apart....
Yep, 24 years on and off. Started with Nippons for my 1990 Acura Legend LS and again on a 1998 Acura RL. Now use them (along with Union Sangyo) on my 2007 Honda Ridgline. Part number is 15400-PLM-A01A, marked on the box as "Genuine Nippon, Engineered in Japan, Made in Malaysia." Smartly packaged with the base shrink wrapped.
May have used a Nippon fuel filter or two, but never a Nippon AT filter.
May have used a Nippon fuel filter or two, but never a Nippon AT filter.
Quote:
....Actually if you look on the box it says HONDA OEM right on it....
Looked through this thread again and I still haven't seen where it says HONDA OEM (A01,A02) on the box? Only, "For Honda." Someone needs to tell Honda they are selling Honda oem under the Nippon/Ultra8 name at Napa. They might be interested. Or not.
....Actually if you look on the box it says HONDA OEM right on it....
Looked through this thread again and I still haven't seen where it says HONDA OEM (A01,A02) on the box? Only, "For Honda." Someone needs to tell Honda they are selling Honda oem under the Nippon/Ultra8 name at Napa. They might be interested. Or not.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Quote:
....Actually if you look on the box it says HONDA OEM right on it....
Looked through this thread again and I still haven't seen where it says HONDA OEM (A01,A02) on the box? Only, "For Honda." Someone needs to tell Honda they are selling Honda oem under the Nippon/Ultra8 name at Napa. They might be interested. Or not.
They dont say A01 or A02 they state
Now Im sure they are not Honda OEMs but they do state it on there.
now lets see you argue with that.
you will say there is not a Honda 15400 PR3 004 and another number that exsits
but look at pic , clearly a 15400 PR3 004
Im sure its not OEM... perhaps OEM SPECS.. but it does say Honda on it.
and boy you are post trailing all day today
here is pic of above filter number on the box
Quote:
....Actually if you look on the box it says HONDA OEM right on it....
Looked through this thread again and I still haven't seen where it says HONDA OEM (A01,A02) on the box? Only, "For Honda." Someone needs to tell Honda they are selling Honda oem under the Nippon/Ultra8 name at Napa. They might be interested. Or not.
They dont say A01 or A02 they state
Now Im sure they are not Honda OEMs but they do state it on there.
now lets see you argue with that.
you will say there is not a Honda 15400 PR3 004 and another number that exsits
but look at pic , clearly a 15400 PR3 004
Im sure its not OEM... perhaps OEM SPECS.. but it does say Honda on it.
and boy you are post trailing all day today
here is pic of above filter number on the box
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