Turbo GDI oil question

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by DaleRider

Originally Posted by PimTac

Well I don't go back that far but I did my share of inserting metal oil spouts into metal quart cans of oil in my younger years. Mostly Texaco Havoline.

Brings back memories.....ever have the spout pierce the side of the can because you weren't really paying close attention when putting it through the top? That sucked. Then there were the cardboard cans.....even worse than the metal cans.

Not on a metal can but those cardboard cans were tricky. They seemed to get thinner and thinner as well. I experienced the Hallelujah moment when they started with the plastic screwtop bottles. What had took them so long?

 

[Davvver]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter

Originally Posted by Davvver

So I'm not sure why it wouldn't because it is a TGDI. Is that because LSPI is primarily noticed in smaller engines? I guess 2.0 isn't that small anymore? I just assumed it is since I'm use to driving v6 and v8 engines.

Everything you want to know about lspi...👇 https://www.oronite.com/about/news/low-speed-pre-ignition.aspx#causes-of-LSPI

Thanks for the info. I read that and some other articles. Many refer to LSPI happening in 2.0l TGDI engines. But perhaps not in the Lexus engine because it also has port injection? What is your take? Edyvw's comment confused me a bit as to why it cannot happen in the Lexus 2.0T specifically. Perhaps he can explain that to me. I am not as seasoned as all of you on here. Thanks again everyone! I enjoy reading about this stuff as engine and oil tech changes.

 

[Mainia]

I think I had an LSPI event in my 1.6T Hyundai Kona AWD. 9.5 to 10 to 1 compression ratio 17lbs boost at 1,450 rpm on Hyundai speced 87 octane. The engine had a major slam just as I rolled onto boost and at 2,000 rpm it felt like the car jumped 5 ft in the air with a massive hit it took of "something". After that it has had a minimum of 89 and mostly 93 octane. The OEM Hyundai tune can't take advantage more octane. I still use it 89 more in the winter and 91/93 summer . I am on boost more then most, so after that hit it took I won't chance it again. I am a thicky and with Hyundai a couple of years ago sending out a TSB on going from 5w-30 to mandate 5w-40 with their 2.0T motors to try to slow down their rod bearing /piston issues that have plagued them for 10 years now. I myself wont run a Dexos 1 Gen 2 oil. I want a higher HTHS oil of 3.5 or above and I want more VW and MD Porsche certs then Hyundai's A5/B5 since I am on boost a lot. I am running Mobil 1 5w-30 ESP now and since I have 5% + fuel dilution (Polaris Labs) from short tripping in Minnesota winters( I dump at 3,000 in winters) I get some fuel dilution in the summer too. I don't want D1 Gen2 thinner oils. Hyundai lets any one of their turbo motors use 5w-40 as speced in their manual, but gives no oil spec for that oil. So it's open to anything 5w-40 while keeping warranty.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Davvver

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter

Originally Posted by Davvver

So I'm not sure why it wouldn't because it is a TGDI. Is that because LSPI is primarily noticed in smaller engines? I guess 2.0 isn't that small anymore? I just assumed it is since I'm use to driving v6 and v8 engines.

Everything you want to know about lspi...👇 https://www.oronite.com/about/news/low-speed-pre-ignition.aspx#causes-of-LSPI

Thanks for the info. I read that and some other articles. Many refer to LSPI happening in 2.0l TGDI engines. But perhaps not in the Lexus engine because it also has port injection? What is your take? Edyvw's comment confused me a bit as to why it cannot happen in the Lexus 2.0T specifically. Perhaps he can explain that to me. I am not as seasoned as all of you on here. Thanks again everyone! I enjoy reading about this stuff as engine and oil tech changes.

2.0T is NOT small displacement. It is in US and Canada, however, 2.0ltr in most of the world is pretty hefty engine. More importantly, 2.0ltr displacement is adequate for LSPI not to happen if engine is designed properly. LSPI is mostly present among Asian and US manufacturers. Euro manufacturers since they are in turbo business for a long time, resolved that long time ago or did not have it at all. VW had that issue with first version of 1.4 turbo+compressor engine, some 12 years ago, but it was resolved. Lexus is late in the game, as usual, waiting for infant issues to be resolved, that is why I would not expect this to be an issue. On top of that, power in that plant is average, nothing special, not because Toyota could not deliver more power from it, but to prevent potential issues. Also, since Toyota/Lexus is very flexible with oil choices forget TGMO. Go heavier, possibly with Euro specification, especially with turbo application (do not forget, 0W20 grade is there for fuel consumption reasons). If manual allows other grades, go with anything 5W30 that has ACEA A3/B3 B4 specification and MB229.5 approval or ACEA C3 and MB 229.51 approval. If you still want to stick to 0W20, go with oils that carry MB 229.71 approval, VW 508.00/509.00 or BMW LL17 approvals. Those approvals are far more stringent anything Toyota will require.

 

[Davvver]

Thanks for the information. I understand more now. I checked the OM and it only allows 0w20. I looked to see if Mobil 1 EP 0w20 had any of those certifications you mentioned and they do not. Looks like they are for 0w40 or 5w30. Any other suggestions for a 0w20 oil that would meet the requirements mentioned?

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Davvver

Thanks for the information. I understand more now. I checked the OM and it only allows 0w20.

As usual, the owner's manual creates ambiguity. What it says is:

Quote

Recommended viscosity: SAE 0W-20

That is the base recommendation, everything else on that page flows from that statement. So in reality it "allows" any grade you wish to use. It subsequently says "An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions", so that right there is an open door to use whatever grade you like. What if I determine the definition of high speed is anything above 60 MPH? No where in your owner's manual or the warranty book does it say that your new-car warranty is predicated on a particular grade, does it? The bottom line is that the owner's manual does not only allow 0W-20. For a specific reason they wish you to think that but it isn't the case.

 

[BucDan]

Originally Posted by kschachn

Originally Posted by Davvver

Thanks for the information. I understand more now. I checked the OM and it only allows 0w20.

As usual, the owner's manual creates ambiguity. What it says is:

Quote

Recommended viscosity: SAE 0W-20

That is the base recommendation, everything else on that page flows from that statement. So in reality it "allows" any grade you wish to use. It subsequently says "An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions" so that right there is an open door to use whatever you like. What if I determine the definition of high speed is anything above 60 MPH? No where in your owner's manual or the warranty book does it say that your new-car warranty is predicated on a particular grade, does it? The bottom line is that the owner's manual does not only allow 0W-20. For a specific reason they wish you to think that but it isn't the case.

To be fair, it says explicitly 0w-20. Doesn't have language that insinuates otherwise. It even goes as far as saying 5w-20 is ok, but you must go back to 0w-20. I get that the section reads and refers explicitly for 0w-20, but it doesn't hint at anymore thicker. High speeds would be a qualifier if you were to argue that in court, but I think it's just nitpicking. I'd say, just stick to 0w-20. Especially if you're still under warranty.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by BucDan

To be fair, it says explicitly 0w-20. Doesn't have language that insinuates otherwise. It even goes as far as saying 5w-20 is ok, but you must go back to 0w-20. I get that the section reads and refers explicitly for 0w-20, but it doesn't hint at anymore thicker. High speeds would be a qualifier if you were to argue that in court, but I think it's just nitpicking.

Quote

Recommended viscosity: SAE 0W-20

 

[BucDan]

Originally Posted by kschachn

Originally Posted by BucDan

To be fair, it says explicitly 0w-20. Doesn't have language that insinuates otherwise. It even goes as far as saying 5w-20 is ok, but you must go back to 0w-20. I get that the section reads and refers explicitly for 0w-20, but it doesn't hint at anymore thicker. High speeds would be a qualifier if you were to argue that in court, but I think it's just nitpicking.

Quote

Recommended viscosity: SAE 0W-20

Had a feeling someone would stab at that. Sure, you can go with something else besides the recommendation, many do, but I'm just going off of the words:

Quote

If SAE 0W-20 is not available, SAE 5W-20 oil may be used. However, it must be replaced with SAE 0W-20 at the next oil change.

The manual doesn't say anything about going higher either. The 'must' basically implies the recommendation that 0W-20 should be used.

 

[PimTac]

I would have no problem using the 0w20 if this was my Lexus. With that said, using that grade of oil in a turbo engine is something new. Normally manufacturers would recommend 5w30. I would use a good quality as well. With that said, consider your driving routine in this. If you are driving over mountain passes regularly then I'd might consider the 5w30.

 

[dblshock]

I'd be filling with Edge 0/40 Euro A3B4 and finding something else to sweat.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Davvver

Thanks for the information. I understand more now. I checked the OM and it only allows 0w20. I looked to see if Mobil 1 EP 0w20 had any of those certifications you mentioned and they do not. Looks like they are for 0w40 or 5w30. Any other suggestions for a 0w20 oil that would meet the requirements mentioned?

MB229.71, VW 508.00/509.00 and BMW LL17 are strictly 0W20 oils. They will be though more expensive than your average Mobil1 0W20. As for language in your Lexus, it is same in my Sienna. I use Mobil1 5W30 EP. If I had that Lexus, I would go to local Wal Mart and got Castrol Edge 0W40 or Mobil1 0W40.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by dblshock

I'd be filling with Edge 0/40 Euro A3B4 and finding something else to sweat.

^This.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by BucDan

Originally Posted by kschachn

Originally Posted by BucDan

To be fair, it says explicitly 0w-20. Doesn't have language that insinuates otherwise. It even goes as far as saying 5w-20 is ok, but you must go back to 0w-20. I get that the section reads and refers explicitly for 0w-20, but it doesn't hint at anymore thicker. High speeds would be a qualifier if you were to argue that in court, but I think it's just nitpicking.

Quote

Recommended viscosity: SAE 0W-20

Had a feeling someone would stab at that. Sure, you can go with something else besides the recommendation, many do, but I'm just going off of the words:

Quote

If SAE 0W-20 is not available, SAE 5W-20 oil may be used. However, it must be replaced with SAE 0W-20 at the next oil change.

The manual doesn't say anything about going higher either. The 'must' basically implies the recommendation that 0W-20 should be used.

In Europe Lexus recommends for NX200T 5W30 ACEA C3 oil. Only reason why 0W20 is used here is CAFE since in EU they do not have fleet mpg. Hence, heavier oil is recommended, and there is reason for that: turbo.. Though Toyota recommends C3 oils for V6 naturally aspirated engines too.

 

[madeej11]

If in fact the NX turbo is both direct and port injected then LSPI shouldn't be a factor. I know where Sudbury is and it is very cold so 0w20 is probably a good choice. A thin 5w30 such as Pennzoil Platinum would also be good if you wanted to go a little thicker. Also Mobil1 EP 0w20 is a well recommended oil here on Bitog. Either way any of these choices should protect your timing chain concerns. Good luck to you.