Lubrizol says SN PLUS and GF-6 not enough for LSPI protection in TGDI engines

[Bryanccfshr]

Wow. That is very interesting and seems like everything is going in random directions. No one is going to recomend group v only base oils $$$$. Yet the higher purity of hydrocarbon basestocks present, the higher incidence of LSPI. [censored], counterintuitive..[censored] puzzling. I am glad I don't have a prone engine. I just wish they would stop screwing with lubricants when the causal factors for this problem have not been well established.

Originally Posted by wemay

According to Infineum's latest... https://www.infineuminsight.com/articles/passenger-cars/lspi-and-lubricant-auto-ignition/ What i also find interesting is that Conventional Grp II is more resistant than the commonly available and bought Grp III and even Grp IV Synthetics (see chart)

 

[dblshock]

What engines are having all these LSPI failures? dilution yes, but fails? we don't hear of them here.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by wemay

According to Infineum's latest... https://www.infineuminsight.com/articles/passenger-cars/lspi-and-lubricant-auto-ignition/ What i also find interesting is that Conventional Grp II is more resistant than the commonly available and bought Grp III and even Grp IV Synthetics (see chart)

Very interesting, thanks. I had always wondered whether dino or synthetic oil knocked more. I know they burn differently. Finally, we have an answer. So, the best bet for LSPI-prone engines is conventional SN PLUS?

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster

Originally Posted by bfleeman

Didn't AMSOIL fix this problem with their oil? I know they claim a 100% fix to this problem.

AMSOIL would claim their products cured cancer if they thought they could get away with it.

Are you here to antagonize like on the other thread? Interesting how we get so many new posters from Columbus Nebraska.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

What conventionals are SN+? Not Pennzoil conventional 5w30.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted by Gokhan

Originally Posted by wemay

According to Infineum's latest... https://www.infineuminsight.com/articles/passenger-cars/lspi-and-lubricant-auto-ignition/ What i also find interesting is that Conventional Grp II is more resistant than the commonly available and bought Grp III and even Grp IV Synthetics (see chart)

Very interesting, thanks. I had always wondered whether dino or synthetic oil knocked more. I know they burn differently. Finally, we have an answer. So, the best bet for LSPI-prone engines is conventional SN PLUS?

Time to pull out that stash of VWB i have somewhere around this house.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en

What conventionals are SN+? Not Pennzoil conventional 5w30.

Valvoline, Havoline and Castrol are, off the top of my head. But remember, that Infineum study suggests little correlation between LSPI and the presence of Calcium, which in turn is how these oils met API SN Plus...by reducing that additive and Increasing Magnesium. It goes on to say that base oil is the best determinant. Hence Conventional being more resistant.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by wemay

Originally Posted by Gokhan

Originally Posted by wemay

According to Infineum's latest... https://www.infineuminsight.com/articles/passenger-cars/lspi-and-lubricant-auto-ignition/ What i also find interesting is that Conventional Grp II is more resistant than the commonly available and bought Grp III and even Grp IV Synthetics (see chart)

Very interesting, thanks. I had always wondered whether dino or synthetic oil knocked more. I know they burn differently. Finally, we have an answer. So, the best bet for LSPI-prone engines is conventional SN PLUS?

Time to pull out that stash of VWB i have somewhere around this house.

^^^^^^^ Yeah time to gather a search party

 

[Bryanccfshr]

so as I see it, there is a correlation to base oil type that is more solid than the calcium theory. As curious as I am with the mechanism and the why? Knowing this Do Fords Motorcraft blends used in eco boost applications stand as happenstance, or design? If it is design, I am impressed. I must wonder, the calcium LSPI link seemed to be proven fact here and apparently there is much more to the story.

 

[wemay]

Good question. I've not read of any LSPI event with EB engines. Maybe the number is an insignificant amount if it exists. And even then, what oils were used? I remember way back when, when member, SonofJoe had his doubts Calcium was the culprit. So in finishing my thoughts from the previous post, the fact that an oil is Conventional weighs more heavily than if it's SN Plus or plain old SN according to Infineum.

 

[ChemLabNL]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en

What conventionals are SN+? Not Pennzoil conventional 5w30.

Yes it is. Maybe just a rumor spread by the Magnesium ProMo Council. Do the Rothschilds own Magnesium mines? Pennzoil SAE 30 look better everyday...Amirite?

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by ChemLabNL

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en

What conventionals are SN+? Not Pennzoil conventional 5w30.

Yes it is.

' .... NO it isn't.... unless SN-RC is indeed SN+ Click on the 5w30 grade in the link below. https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/products/blends-conventional-oils/conventional.html

 

[Shannow]

Honestly...I don't believe that an operational "cetane" test accurately and in any way represents LSPI potential... GrI has a better cetane than GrIII...quite obviously, it's easier to commence oxidation...esters, they are already partially oxidised in their structure.

 

[wemay]

I think every time something new is found from what is a reputable site, we tend to succumb to the "LOOK SQUIRREL" effect. But i must admit, these contradicting theories leave us laymen grasping at straws. I do remember one previous study, where GrpII was also better at combating IVD in Gdi...

 

[ChemLabNL]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en

Originally Posted by ChemLabNL

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en

What conventionals are SN+? Not Pennzoil conventional 5w30.

Yes it is.

' .... NO it isn't.... unless SN-RC is indeed SN+ Click on the 5w30 grade in the link below. https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/products/blends-conventional-oils/conventional.html

https://shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en-US/7a336e8a-19ca-4739-a96f-b417cbcdb3ac.pdf

 

[wemay]

Thanks ChemLabNL, the pennzoil.com webpage is always behind epcshell or shell-livedocs.com.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Wow...a 19C difference in flashpoint between D92 and D93 testing. I guess I shouldn't have been so impressed when I saw that M1 5W30 ESP was over 250C by D92....it probably wasn't really that remarkable for a synth.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted by wemay

But remember, that Infineum study suggests little correlation between LSPI and the presence of Calcium, which in turn is how these oils met API SN Plus...by reducing that additive and Increasing Magnesium. It goes on to say that base oil is the best determinant. Hence Conventional being more resistant.

Which makes one wonder whether or not a PAO majority base oil, which has a significant deal of what/whichever Group 5 tested better in that diagram above blended into the formulation, would out-perform the conventional as far as LSPI is concerned (IF any actual finished product oil like this even exists??)? There ARE other performance factors to consider, besides LSPI (albeit, YES, that can be very dangerous to an engine's 'health' LOL) especially in a higher performance, power dense, engine (which is used as such), so I am not going to worry about using high PAO base stock content oils at all.

 

[wemay]

You make good points. Another view is that most if not all 5W-20 and 5W-30 (non-synthetic) oils are now a blend. So the other performance factors are addressed, so long as the finished product meets your manufacturer's recommended specs.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted by wemay

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en

What conventionals are SN+? Not Pennzoil conventional 5w30.

Valvoline, Havoline and Castrol are, off the top of my head. But remember, that Infineum study suggests little correlation between LSPI and the presence of Calcium, which in turn is how these oils met API SN Plus...by reducing that additive and Increasing Magnesium. It goes on to say that base oil is the best determinant. Hence Conventional being more resistant.

BTW, i called Valvoline today and along with all their oils, all NAPA oils are SN Plus as well. Their bottles still don't show i though.