Tuned VAG 2.0 TFSI

[cyberflex]

Hiya!

Hoping everyone had a great Christmas and wishing you all a happy, healthy 2014!

I would like some advice from you guys, have searched the forum pretty well but not found anything that answers my query exactly.

I have a 2012 VW Golf R, using the FSI motor, rather than the newer TSI motor.

The car is running a GIAC Extreme tune along with GIAC Stage 3 DSG flash.

I would really appreciate an oil recommendation. I changed out the factory oil at around 5000 miles with Motul Specific 504/507 5W-30 using a Hengst filter, the dealer did a complimentary service a month ago and used a 502 based oil. I think many dealers here in the UK use Quantum oils.

Now I'm tuned, I'd like some help as to what oil I should use in order to provide protection from premature HPFP cam follower degradation as well as the notorious carbon deposit build up on the intake valves.

I have always believed as soon as you modify, warranty is as good as gone on the parts that are in any way associated. Point being, I am not necessarily looking for a VW approved oil.

Any advice much appreciated guys.
Thanks.

 

[Olas]

I'd use either Millers Nanodrive or Redline, and I'd get them from Opie Oils.
Nice car, btw

 

[nleksan]

Agreed with above. Redline and the like seem to work quite well in high boost engines, at keeping both the motor and the turbos alive.

Probably the best thing you can do is add both an external oil cooler and a Turbo Timer.

 

[cyberflex]

Thanks a lot guys! Much appreciated.

I joined the site some time ago and love it.

Although I don't visit as much as I'd like, the site and knowledge of those that use it is incredible.

Have not posted until now as I have managed to find everything I needed without bothering you guys.

I had an R56 Cooper S that was tuned and used either Redline 5W-30 or Mobil 1 0W-40 throughout the time I had it. Ran very well with no problems.

I use Opie Oils, the guys there are great.

This time though with the Golf I wanted some opinions from you guys and thankfully that's what I have now and will act upon.

I would like to ask you what Viscosity you would use in a tuned TFSI engine?

The GIAC Extreme Software pushes the Borg Warner K04 to its safe limits, I do a lot of short distance trips also..

The car has only been tuned a couple of weeks, so would ideally like to change oil to something more suitable very soon.

I tend to wait until oil temperature is above 75 degrees celcius before asking for any form of boost since being tuned.

I was thinking of Redline 0W- 40 or 5W-40, I also know Mobil 1 0W-40 is a respected oil on this forum.

Please can you give me an idea of the viscosity you would use in my TFSI motor?

Thanks in advance, again, I very much appreciate your time.

 

[UG_Passat]

I'm still K03'd on my FSI (engine code BPY, which is still a ea113 based engine like your Golf R)...

but I use 5w40, Shell HDEO. since the Rotella name is not used in England... (I use Rotella T6)... so I don't know if there is a Rimula equivalent.

My HPFP wears fine with that oil. And with the lower SAPS (not quite VW507.00 low), I go approx 100,000 miles in between cleanings.

 

[cyberflex]

Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
I'm still K03'd on my FSI (engine code BPY, which is still a ea113 based engine like your Golf R)...

but I use 5w40, Shell HDEO. since the Rotella name is not used in England... (I use Rotella T6)... so I don't know if there is a Rimula equivalent.

My HPFP wears fine with that oil. And with the lower SAPS (not quite VW507.00 low), I go approx 100,000 miles in between cleanings.


Thanks for the information dude!

You have the BPY, which is the same as the CDL based EA113 in many respects from my reading, so your oil choice is of great use.

This is what is available here, do you think the Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 would be similar to your current choice?

http://www.shell.co.uk/gbr/products-serv...elix-ultra.html

Thanks!

 

[Olas]

Helix Ultra isn't very similar to Rotella, it's more of a PCMO. Rotella is like Rimula in the UK. From what Shell offer, I'd pick R6LM or Helix Ultra Racing, but I think Redline would stand upto the heat from the turbo better than either of those products.
JMO, the ea113 is new to me - I'm ea827 through and through

 

[nleksan]

Redline 0w40, or Royal Purple HPS 0/5w40 would be excellent choices.

 

[cyberflex]

Thanks guys!! Happy New Year!!!

 

[bobbydavro]

VW 505 01 oils have proven performance in high pressure cam environments.

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
VW 505 01 oils have proven performance in high pressure cam environments.



Not necessarily. There are people that say 505.01 is fine for the Pumpe-Duse camshaft wear, and there are people on the other side of the camp that say 505.01 will destroy the camshaft, and say HDEO is better.

 

[bobbydavro]

The 505 01 approval tests are ran on engines with PD units. Camshaft wear is one of the critical parameters and each engine is viewed by VW post test.

A 505 01 oil will have also passed the VW RNT wear test which is the BLS 1.9 PD engine.

Any oil with 505 01 is well proven in VW hardware.

 

[WBoer]

I have a VW 105BHP 1.9TDI PD with 460.000KM on the clock, have this car from new.

Always changed oil between 20.000km en 30.000km (driven 60.000KM/Year)
With VW 50501 and most of the time with VW 50700 5W30 oil.

Never had one problem with this engine, camshaft, turbo, injectors, everything is original, even no EGR problems.
Engine runs perfect, no power los, no oil consumption, no smoke.

So I think those VW specifications oils are very good.
If you change it in time according to driving style (miles/year)

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
The 505 01 approval tests are ran on engines with PD units. Camshaft wear is one of the critical parameters and each engine is viewed by VW post test.

A 505 01 oil will have also passed the VW RNT wear test which is the BLS 1.9 PD engine.

Any oil with 505 01 is well proven in VW hardware.


the irony of that test is 505.01 is run at a much lower operating time than 507.00 (250 hrs for 505.01 and 650 hours for 507.00)

 

[bobbydavro]

Only for the core testing, in any case 504 507 is a long drain spec so its expected to last longer. The drive cycle is very different for the last 400hours (250 > 650hrs) compared to the first 250hours.

Once you pass the VW wear test that you mention, you then go into the VW type testing which is 4 engine tests for 50501 and 7 for 504 507.

505 01 engines typically have higher Ash and ZDDP than 504 507 so are some of the best performing oils in high load conditions, especially 5W-40 viscositys.

 

[UG_Passat]

504/507 covers both fixed & flexible. On the flexible interval, it is UP TO 30,000 km.

the interesting thing about 505.01 is, how it maintains its viscosity. It actually shears down slightly, then soot loads back to its original viscosity.

When Amsoil changed their AFL formulation in 2004 to mimick 505.01, it became a less robust oil.

ALso keep in mind in a FSI engine, lower SAPS is better as it produces less buildup than higher SAPS oils.

 

[bobbydavro]

Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
504/507 covers both fixed & flexible. On the flexible interval, it is UP TO 30,000 km.

the interesting thing about 505.01 is, how it maintains its viscosity. It actually shears down slightly, then soot loads back to its original viscosity.


I was only commenting on why 504 507 has a longer test, fully aware of the applications of the specifications.

Regarding the 505 01 and shear stability, this is nothing to do with the spec. Many different formulations using different VMs meet the requirements of the testing protocol but with very different shear performance.

Anyway in terms of the original post I can't see any reason not to use a 505 01 oil. FSi deposit test is more to do with the engine build and blowby rather. you are right about the requirement for proven FSi peformance in 504 507 oils, however I wouldnt be concerned too much with 0.8% ash and a 5W-40 can help (more deposits drop out in the manifold before getting to valves.

If it was really tuned i'd hope some sort of uprated breather system anyway

 

[UG_Passat]

People have installed catch cans hoping that it would prevent the buildup. It doesn't.

The intake valve buildup is a concern because, it gradually decreases performance, then you start to misfire across all the cylinders, and the cleanup is laborious (and expensive).

I'm fine with 1% SAPS, which is still lower then 502.00/505.00/505.01, and the Cam follower is going to wear anyway, because it is a flawed design. When you installed an upgraded HPFP for more flow, it will wear at a faster rate. Replacing cam followers is cheap.

 

[dbrowne1]

Given that you're in the UK and don't have the same gasoline formulation concerns that we have here in the US ... I would use a 504 oil, which will minimize the intake valve deposits.

Seems like a no-brainer to me.