Trigger Control: Surprise Break

[Hokiefyd]

I've watched a number of videos lately about trigger control. One of the common threads seems to be the concept of a surprise break. I can see this with something like a DA revolver, or something like a Smith & Wesson SD series. You truly can't feel when the hammer will be dropped -- it's truly a "surprise".

How do you get a "surprise break" with a striker fired gun like a Glock or M&P? You can prep the trigger, but when you're up against the "wall" where it's got pressure on the trigger bar to release the sear, there's no surprise there. There's no trigger movement until it breaks.

It seems to be that trigger control technique would depend on trigger and action type. Is this not really the case, or are there certain adjustments one must make with trigger control on a striker fired trigger vs. a DA hammer?

 

[SZR48207]

The notion here is that you don't want to focus on when the trigger will break because that can get you in the habit of anticipating recoil.

Regardless of the action type, you should focus on good trigger principles like pulling straight back with the pad of the finger.

Even on a 2 stage match grade trigger with a 2lb break, you can teach yourself to "forget" when the trigger breaks so that your shot placement is more consistent.

 

[OneEyeJack]

The surprise break is good for target shooting and maybe sniping but for self defense shooting with a pistol I'd want to know exactly when the gun will fire especially if I'm moving or my intended target is moving. Shot placement can be more important than caliber.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
The surprise break is good for target shooting and maybe sniping but for self defense shooting with a pistol I'd want to know exactly when the gun will fire especially if I'm moving or my intended target is moving. Shot placement can be more important than caliber.
This ^. This isn't about sniper long guns with big scopes.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

BRASS. Breath, Relax, Aim, Squeeze, Surprise.

Works for target shooting and hunting, even with striker fired weapons. The idea is to concentrate on the front sight, not the trigger.

For defense? Not going to happen.

 

[Al]

I hated the trigger to death on the Shield. But after maybe 1000+ dry firings 2 things occurred. The trigger became a bit smoother (I think) and I got more used to it.

During dry firings as soon as I put pressure on it IO count 1thousand one..one thousand two. I try to time it so it breaks at "two". I have it down pat....but... on the range the mental games start and it doesn't work as well. Sometimes it breaks too soon and sometimes too late. Not surprisinglyt if it goes off at "two" the accuracy is up.

When I started practising with the Glock the trigger was noticeably better. I think in large part its because I practised with the Shield. But also IO think the trigger on the Glock was better at the git-go.

At this point I would sahe triggers of both are equal but IO shoot better with the Glock.

Again..correct position (grip and strong arm position), breath control, concentrate on front sight, and trigger control. Yea..you can watch those things on Youtube and in a book...but practising them for me works.

The trigger on the LCP is way better. That's why I feel I don't need to practice with it nearly as much.

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
The surprise break is good for target shooting and maybe sniping but for self defense shooting with a pistol I'd want to know exactly when the gun will fire especially if I'm moving or my intended target is moving. Shot placement can be more important than caliber.



The whole idea is to eliminate anticipating the recoil. Once you do it well enough, it become muscle memory and your accuracy improves in all facets of shooting.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I read all across the internet (which we know is full of experts, right?!) that once you get your fundamentals down, it doesn't matter what the trigger is like. Good fundamentals overcome any trigger. Some may take more practice, but a firm trigger just illuminates what someone is doing wrong, and a light trigger helps conceal poor technique. With that in mind, I set out Saturday to see what is what.

I got it.

I went shooting at a friend's house. Just me with the Shield out in a field. We had 3 steel plates set up at 15 yards (45 feet). A 4", 6", and 8". I concentrated on putting that front sight on the plate and kept an even pressure on the trigger until it broke. Ring! Try it again. Ding! Again. Cling! I put about 100 rounds through the Shield, and I'd say I was on the 8" plate at least 75% of the time. I could get the 4" plate about half the time, with good concentration.

I took out my Kel-tec P-32. This is a little 32ACP mouse gun with a 2.5" barrel. Even out at 15 yards. Ring-ding-cling. As someone posted above, it's all about concentrating on that front sight and almost forgetting what that trigger finger is doing.

I came home and did more dry firing. I wasn't low and left at all at the range on Saturday (I have been before), and I wanted to sort of see what that looks like. If I stop at the sear wall (with the Shield), then make a deliberate ~pull~ to break it, I see the front sight pull low and left every time. But if I apply a smooth and even pressure to the trigger, and let it break when it will, that front sight is like a rock.

I really improved my technique on Saturday. Both of my handguns continued their perfect reliability run with me. I haven't had a single issue with the Shield (bought new) or with the P-32 (bought used). Both were dead-on Saturday.

Thx for all the comments.

 

[billt460]

I look at it this way. What do people complain the most about with Glock's? The "grip angle" and the "trigger". They can't adjust to either. They have no "fundamentals"...... Just an opinion no one values.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I think ergonomic comfort and trigger control are two different things. You can learn trigger control. You can't "learn" in-hand comfort -- something either fits well or it doesn't.

 

[SOHCman]

Originally Posted By: billt460
I look at it this way. What do people complain the most about with Glock's? The "grip angle" and the "trigger". They can't adjust to either. They have no "fundamentals"...... Just an opinion no one values.


IMHO a glocks trigger can be dramatically improved with a aftermarket trigger-connector and posishing the metal bits of the trigger.

I don't recommend the connecter be changed for a duty/self defense firearm, but for competition purposes, it can make it easier to just focus on fundamentals and wait for recoil.

 

[billt460]

The shooter should be able to adjust to the trigger. Not the other way around.

 

[SOHCman]

Originally Posted By: billt460
The shooter should be able to adjust to the trigger. Not the other way around.


Agreed

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: billt460
The shooter should be able to adjust to the trigger. Not the other way around.


I agree -- I think a good shooter can adjust to ANY aspect of a firearm...whether that's the trigger, the sights, the ergonomics, the grip angle, the magazine release, etc.

Because there are so many great guns out there, though, we're blessed to be able to choose exactly what fits our wants and needs -- and our hands -- best!

 

[totegoat]

I ordered a trigger pull gauge just for fun.