Muscle Memory and Shooting Multiple Guns

Status
Not open for further replies.

JHZR2

Staff member
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Messages
52,633
Location
New Jersey
I do range trips with others, so we swap different guns. The exposure is fun and sometimes eye opening.

Today I swapped rapidly (like 2 mags on one then the same on the other right after) between a DAO S&W 5946, an M&P Shield, and a 617 revolver. I used a five-section target, so each gun gets its own target area, and typically shoot at 15 yards. I found that I could shoot the two 9mm guns pretty much identical accuracy. The spread, number of holes one on top of another, etc. are more or less the same.

But I noticed that my trigger control was really sloppy on the M&P, seemingly because I was shooting the others which have long/hard trigger pulls. I even caught myself doing an unintended double tap on the striker fired gun.

The only striker fired gun I have is a G19. So shooting the shield, which has a great in hand feel and is fun to shoot (comments of a gritty trigger ended up being less of a thing than I had thought from prior unloaded handling) was sort of a new/different experience to me. But I feel that it's been different than my Glock.

So, is there a good way to work on this? Not sure it truly matters, like mentioned, both were shot with similar accuracy. But I didn't like feeling "out of control" for lack of better terms, on the striker gun.

Thoughts/suggestions?
 
For me it takes a bit of shooting between different hand guns to get "dialed in" I can shoot a 1911 and Ruger 22/45 than my XD Tacticals My Ruger p95 the worst. If I could turn the clock back to day 1 I would buy only one type of platform.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
For me it takes a bit of shooting between different hand guns to get "dialed in"


I agree.
 
After a short while I fell in love with the trigger on my Shield 9. I guess it's all in what you are used to.
 
I shoot so many different guns, it takes at most 2 or 3 magazines and I'm used to it. I think it's good to shoot different weapons all the time. It keeps you more adaptable. I've never been trigger sensitive.
 
Muscle Memory is not needed to shoot accurately. Unless you get in shoot outs often where a second will save your life.
I have been taught that it is a dangerous way to train, not aiming just shooting.
 
Originally Posted By: Koz1
Muscle Memory is not needed to shoot accurately. Unless you get in shoot outs often where a second will save your life.
I have been taught that it is a dangerous way to train, not aiming just shooting.


All of us (non cops) better have a real good reason to be in a 45 foot shootout (opening post regarding 15 yards). Opposing lawyers will sue the daylights out of us, if we don't. Heck, even our local police may prosecute us for shooting at someone in those distances.
 
Last edited:
Similar situation:

A guy who makes lotsa firearm videos shot himself in the leg while drawing a cocked 'n locked automatic.
He had been testing different guns and holsters that day.

All that unfamiliar finger fumbling (safety buttons, holster straps and releases) is what made him klutz his trigger finger into the wrong place at the wrong time.
I must add his preference for holstering his sidearm high on his belt and slightly to his back side required that he reach back and up rather extremely.
He's a fat guy with little to no flexibility. Lifting his arm up and sticking his elbow out ridiculously so he could get his hand high AND rearward enough contributed to the mishap.

Just too many toys that day. At least he admitted it straightforwardly in a subsequent video.

The slug merrily danced down the full length of his femur bone and exited by his knee.

SHOT happens! (pretty clever, eh?)
 
Originally Posted By: Koz1
Muscle Memory is not needed to shoot accurately. I have been taught that it is a dangerous way to train, not aiming just shooting.


The best 5 minute shooting video you'll ever watch.
 
Originally Posted By: Koz1
Muscle Memory is not needed to shoot accurately. Unless you get in shoot outs often where a second will save your life.
I have been taught that it is a dangerous way to train, not aiming just shooting.


Muscle memory might not be the best term. It's getting "dialed in" to various trigger feel, pull, and mass, and being able to swap in-between.


Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en

All of us (non cops) better have a real good reason to be in a 45 foot shootout (opening post regarding 15 yards). Opposing lawyers will sue the daylights out of us, if we don't. Heck, even our local police may prosecute us for shooting at someone in those distances.


This isn't the slightest bit pertinent to the discussion. I could set my targets at 200yds for all it matters, and it would be none of anyones' business, and just my choice. Nothing intrinsically wrong with shooting at a bit longer distance. As I understand it, NRA conventional pistol competition goes up to 50yd outdoors, so me arbitrarily shooting at 15 is just fine.
 
Originally Posted By: Kira
Similar situation:

A guy who makes lotsa firearm videos shot himself in the leg while drawing a cocked 'n locked automatic.
He had been testing different guns and holsters that day.

All that unfamiliar finger fumbling (safety buttons, holster straps and releases) is what made him klutz his trigger finger into the wrong place at the wrong time.
I must add his preference for holstering his sidearm high on his belt and slightly to his back side required that he reach back and up rather extremely.
He's a fat guy with little to no flexibility. Lifting his arm up and sticking his elbow out ridiculously so he could get his hand high AND rearward enough contributed to the mishap.

Just too many toys that day. At least he admitted it straightforwardly in a subsequent video.

The slug merrily danced down the full length of his femur bone and exited by his knee.

SHOT happens! (pretty clever, eh?)
The brand of holster (Serpa) contributed to that negligent discharge as much as anything else. The fact that you have to release the pistol with a button that naturally curves your finger into the trigger guard is a poor design to say the very least. While I am not defending his actions, there are other videos which describe the natural tendency of this holster to lend itself towards negligent discharges.
 
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
After a short while I fell in love with the trigger on my Shield 9. I guess it's all in what you are used to.


I had just read a lot about it being "gritty". I understand why from looking at how the hinge works. It is really short and light to me. It was fine as far as I was concerned... point was just that going from something really long and heavy (DAO) to something so short and light can be a bigger switch than I had anticipated...
 
Originally Posted By: Nyquist
Having enough laser cartridges for rapid succession dry firing would help.


So that's what first came to mind - snap caps or lasers. But in a semiauto, the action doesn't cycle, so then you bring it down, rack the slide, and return to firing position. Different than doing it for real.

Perhaps worth a shot but it's also good to see from others that this is a normal situation to calibrate one's body...
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
For me it takes a bit of shooting between different hand guns to get "dialed in" I can shoot a 1911 and Ruger 22/45 than my XD Tacticals My Ruger p95 the worst. If I could turn the clock back to day 1 I would buy only one type of platform.


I echo this....

I like to shoot different pistols, but the one I train with the most and A L W A Y S shoot last at the end of every session is my "every day carry"

The one you rely on the most is the one your brain must be most used to.

ANY LEO or agent will tell you the same thing: How you react - is how you were trained.
So much so, that I automatically "swipe the safety down" on the left side of the slide with my thumb... even if there isn't one there.
 
I only shoot SD. So I can't speak for target shooting. Shooting anything except a striker fired pistol will put almost anyone except a Hickok or Sheriff of Baghdag shooter at a disadvantage-IMO

After 1 or 2 shots (IMO) you should be able to effectively shoot any Striker fired pistol equally well. Thats bc you hold it so tight with all your fingers except your "neutral" thumb on your shooting hand. Also you don't squeeze the trigger-you pull it. At any rate that's how I have been taught.

You will have to rely on others for DAO and 1911 type triggers. But I would guess they may be the same as the striker fired.
And again..can't help you with target type shooting.

Originally Posted By: Linctex

ANY LEO or agent will tell you the same thing: How you react - is how you were trained.
So much so, that I automatically "swipe the safety down" on the left side of the slide with my thumb... even if there isn't one there.

Be careful here..I have all the respect for Leos in the world. But anyone that has been taught by really good trainer (that is the trainers that train police trainers) will have training better than most cops...Now any individual cop could be an exception to that rule. Just don't expect any old LEO to excell.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
All of us (non cops) better have a real good reason to be in a 45 foot shootout (opening post regarding 15 yards).


Disagree. We've seen that violence can happen anywhere at any time from any distance. The small group I shoot with has made a 50' center mass target part of our normal SD set. Knowing you have the ability to make hits at more than 7 yards can't be a bad thing.
 
I go back and forth carrying revolvers and Glocks . The Glocks have a New York 1 with minus connector which makes the trigger a little heavier and more revolver like.

I do a range trip or at least dry fire with snap caps and handle each gun a little before switching. I don't switch every day or anything but just for a week or two at a time. I just like both, they are still the same manual of arms as far as drawing and firing. I have thought about a 1911 or D/A S/A semiauto but that would just throw too much difference into the mix.
 
Originally Posted By: Al
I only shoot SD. So I can't speak for target shooting. Shooting anything except a striker fired pistol will put almost anyone except a Hickok or Sheriff of Baghdag shooter at a disadvantage-IMO

After 1 or 2 shots (IMO) you should be able to effectively shoot any Striker fired pistol equally well. Thats bc you hold it so tight with all your fingers except your "neutral" thumb on your shooting hand. Also you don't squeeze the trigger-you pull it. At any rate that's how I have been taught.

You will have to rely on others for DAO and 1911 type triggers. But I would guess they may be the same as the striker fired.


I think that's perhaps what was most eye opening.

I shoot revolvers and 1911s, obviously there's the SA trigger behavior. But I guess it's more conscious.

DAO and DA in general has a long, heavy pull. Striker fired guns are much more like returning to a SA trigger, only perhaps more touchy.

Perhaps you're into something with the thumb.





It's true my primary concern is marksmanship and technique at large. And swapping from DA to striker isn't an every day occurrence. It's good to see that others observe the same thing - it takes a bit for the body to recalibrate.

But I'm also cheap. At 20c/round, I don't want it to cost me $2 to shoot the next gun acceptably.
smile.gif
 
Whenever I switched from one pistol to another I do a few dry fires just to get use to the break. Once I have that part acclimatized so I don't have to anticipate it I just fall back on all the basic breath in, front sight, trigger... etc.

How much "lock" on the wrist is more difficult to work at least for me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top