Long range shooting'

[burbguy82]

Not surprising, 6.5 and more recently 6mm cartridges have become quite popular lately and there are quite a few of them now.

@CarbonSteel has some beautiful custom precision rifles.

I argue that 6.5 Creedmoor was really the first MODERN caliber, whereas the barrel lengths and twist rates and bullet weights were scienced out before they were released. You cannot buy a 6.5 that is not near lights out right out of the box. Yes 308 guns and other 30 calibers are as and even more accurate, but it has not always been that way.

I have not jumped on the 6.5 bandwagon yet, still very much a 308 guy, but if I had no prior experience and was going to start off with something, it would be 6.5.

 

[ammolab]

I argue that 6.5 Creedmoor was really the first caliber, whereas the barrel lengths and twist rates and bullet weights were scienced out before they were released. You cannot buy a 6.5 that is not near lights out right out of the box. Yes 308 guns and other 30 calibers are as and even more accurate, but it has not always been that way.

I have not jumped on the 6.5 bandwagon yet, still very much a 308 guy, but if I had no prior experience and was going to start off with something, it would be 6.5.

The 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser cartridge scienced all that stuff out for the 6.5 Creedmore….
IN 1894!

 

[Astro14]

The 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser cartridge scienced all that stuff out for the 6.5 Creedmore….
IN 1894!

Which is why I have a Swedish Model M38 in 6.5x55…

 

[burbguy82]

The 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser cartridge scienced all that stuff out for the 6.5 Creedmore….
IN 1894!

Well, I can see why some would think that....and I have heard that before, but why take nearly 100 years to introduce the 6.5 to the open market?

I think that the 6.5x55 was one of those cases where they just hit the mark. The sweet spot caliber IMO in relation to BC is somewhere between .25 and .30.........which gives the best blend of flight and terminal ballistics in a normal sized and pressure cartridge...... But with lighter bullets you need a high BC.

IMO, there are two cartridge's that are king when it comes to shooting far and accurately. They are the 220 Swift and the 50 BMG.

Edit........I see now i left out a word in the original post, "modern"

 

[burbguy82]

Which is why I have a Swedish Model M38 in 6.5x55…

I think another reason you have one is because they are cool, and not necessarily their long range capability.

A world record holder for open sights used a old swiss gun. The projectile stays stable while going trans sonic, which is rare.

But the barrel lengths and propellant are much different than the Swiss.

 

[Astro14]

I think another reason you have one is because they are cool, and not necessarily their long range capability.

A world record holder for open sights used a old swiss gun. The projectile stays stable while going trans sonic, which is rare.

But the barrel lengths and propellant are much different than the Swiss.

That’s the K-31. Chambered in 7.5x55 Swiss. A fine rifle with a fine cartridge.

The wood tends to be beat up (they were used by reservists for drill weekends for decades) but the bluing and barrels are typically spotless.

I mentioned my K-31 a while back on BITOG…

Thread 'US equivalent to Waffenfett'
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/us-equivalent-to-waffenfett.245098/

 

[burbguy82]

That’s the K-31. Chambered in 7.5x55 Swiss. A fine rifle with a fine cartridge.

The wood tends to be beat up (they were used by reservists for drill weekends for decades) but the bluing and barrels are typically spotless.

I mentioned my K-31 a while back on BITOG…

Thread 'US equivalent to Waffenfett'
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/us-equivalent-to-waffenfett.245098/

being as they were swiss, I assume they shot them regularly, perhaps. I wonder what kind of oil\solvent they used when cleaning? Maybe Ballistol? That would be cool to know, just for coolness sake.

 

[Astro14]

being as they were swiss, I assume they shot them regularly, perhaps. I wonder what kind of oil\solvent they used when cleaning? Maybe Ballistol? That would be cool to know, just for coolness sake.

Waffenfett, actually.

Never could figure out exactly what the formulation was but from the manuals, sure looked like a grease.

Ended up using TW-25B on the action. Regular products on the bore. Linseed oil/beeswax combo on the stock.

Bought a couple cases of GP-11 surplus ammo. Very accurate.

A bit more energy than a standard 7.62x51 round. More like an M118.

The GP-11 uses a 174 grain projectile, with a good ballistic coefficient, and sends it at over 2,600 FPS. The case is considerably bigger than a .308, more like a .30-06 for case volume.

 

[burbguy82]

Waffenfett, actually.

Never could figure out exactly what the formulation was but from the manuals, sure looked like a grease.

Ended up using TW-25B on the action. Regular products on the bore. Linseed oil/beeswax combo on the stock.

Bought a couple cases of GP-11 surplus ammo. Very accurate.

A bit more energy than a standard 7.62x51 round. More like an M118.

The GP-11 uses a 174 grain projectile, with a good ballistic coefficient, and sends it at over 2,600 FPS. The case is considerably bigger than a .308, more like a .30-06 for case volume.

Right, that is one difference in the 6.5 Creedmoor and the 6.5 ........which is one reason I argued about the genesis of the 6.5 Creed, as it is a short action, and the Swiss a long action. Long and short cartridges are much different, and behave much differently.

 

[Astro14]

Right, that is one difference in the 6.5 Creedmoor and the 6.5 Swiss........which is one reason I argued about the genesis of the 6.5 Creed, as it is a short action, and the Swiss a long action. Long and short cartridges are much different, and behave much differently.

I think we are mixing Apples and Oranges here.

I have a Swedish M38 Mauser in 6.5x55 Swedish. A 6.5 mm cartridge with excellent ballistics and moderate recoil. Long action, but a reliable, accurate rifle with an accurate chambering. The progenitor of the 6.5 Creedmoor? Perhaps. Similar BC. Longer action.

But we moved on to the SWISS K-31, which holds the record for longest range iron sight rifle shot. Known for its accuracy, the K-31 is chambered in 7.5 x 55 Swiss.

Very different round from the Swedish Mauser.

Further, the K-31 is a straight pull bolt, with some beautifully engineered, but overly complicated, features to the action (see the thread on luxury watches). I would call it a long action, but it’s not directly comparable to other bolts, and it is certainly shorter than its predecessor, the 1911 Schmidt-Rubin, also a straight pull bolt.

So, to which one are you referring? The 6.5 Swede or the 7.5 Swiss?

Incidentally, my K-31 has a troop tag, often found under the butt plate of Swiss rifles, a very cool little piece of history. SGT Robert Bauer took great care of the rifle I now own.

 

[burbguy82]

I think we are mixing Apples and Oranges here.

I have a Swedish M38 Mauser in 6.5x55 Swedish. A 6.5 mm cartridge with excellent ballistics and moderate recoil. Long action, but a reliable, accurate rifle with an accurate chambering. The progenitor of the 6.5 Creedmoor? Perhaps. Similar BC. Longer action.

But we moved on to the SWISS K-31, which holds the record for longest range iron sight rifle shot. Known for its accuracy, the K-31 is chambered in 7.5 x 55 Swiss.

Very different round from the Swedish Mauser.

Further, the K-31 is a straight pull bolt, with some beautifully engineered, but overly complicated, features to the action (see the thread on luxury watches). I would call it a long action, but it’s not directly comparable to other bolts, and it is certainly shorter than its predecessor, the 1911 Schmidt-Rubin, also a straight pull bolt.

So, to which one are you referring? The 6.5 Swede or the 7.5 Swiss?

Incidentally, my K-31 has a troop tag, often found under the butt plate of Swiss rifles, a very cool little piece of history. SGT Robert Bauer took great care of the rifle I now own.

Yes, we are mixed up. To many swiss and swede talk. Go USA!

The 6.5 swiss is also a long action sized cartridge.

 

[Rust_Belt_Pete]

I've always been so impressed by long shots. Not being condescending, but how much of a shot that long do you think comes down to luck? I mean you can't predict wind, or pockets of hot or cold air, etc.

You absolutely can. You can get mirage even in winter and you can check for pockets by dialing the focus on your spotting scope and moving the focus point. Wind? Its the luck of the draw but you can also look for patterns, often it comes in waves and pulses that is why you observe the moving objects such as branches or grass. Does it all move with the same speed and frequency?