Toyota Traded Quality for Quantity

[FusilliJerry82]

In the corporate world all you need to be is slightly better than the rest. Sad but true.

Also, I knew something like this would happen years ago when the auto industry was talking about going throttle-by-wire.

 

[rszappa1]

I agree that is why I have an Accord....

 

[harry j]

It will be interesting to see if Honda sales increase due to Toyota's woes.

 

[Jeepster_nut]

Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Originally Posted By: rszappa1
Nor would I trust FORD wanting people to only put 26psi in the tires on the Explorer....


You really hold a grudge, don't you? I don't trust Toyota telling dealerships to cut a half an inch off the bottom of the gas pedal to fix this problem.


No kidding, what kind of half assed fix is that? "Bring your car in Mr. Jones we need to dremel your gas pedal and stick some chewing gum on there to fix it up good"!

 

[rszappa1]

I think that both Honda Hyndia and nissan will....

 

[Nick R]

Oh look, I just looked up Louisville KY. Guess what? There is a ford plant there. rszappa, tell me, why do you hate ford so much?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Oh look, I just looked up Louisville KY. Guess what? There is a ford plant there. rszappa, tell me, why do you hate ford so much?


Maybe Ford fired him?

 

[rszappa1]

There are two Ford Plants hear....

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Oh look, I just looked up Louisville KY. Guess what? There is a ford plant there. rszappa, tell me, why do you hate ford so much?


Maybe Ford fired him?


Ya know, that was actually my thought. I thought maybe he is a disgruntled former employee, out for vengeance,and justice.

 

[mechanicx]

I think that is the case with John Browning

. I just hope consumers if not going to one of the domestics will at least go to Honda and Nissan that are mostly domestically made and NOT go to Hyundai or VW either. you could make a case to buy a domestic Honda or Nissan but not a Hyundai. That's just cheap.

 

[7TFord]

If someone knows for certain the exact details of the issue here could they comment please? They have branded this as a "faulty gas pedal" but the few incidents I had heard of left me under the impression that the floor mat was moving forward and accidentally holding the pedal down, either by becoming unhooked from the attachments or not being reinstalled properly if removed. Is there actually a mechanical defect in the accelerator apparatus or is it an electrical issue with these newer drive-by-wire electronically controlled throttle systems?

---

 

[SteveSRT8]

Toyota is no different than any other big company.

Profits rule their world. They exist for no other reason than to make money.

For some stupid reason they just didn't include software that almost every other company has: Brakes pull the throttle shut.

So [censored] simple. They probably saved about .50 per unit!

 

[mechanicx]

True but that doesn't mean in the pursuit of profits Toyota or any other company shouldn't have to follow ethics. I don't think they were acting too ethically. And maybe they weren't acting any less ethically than any other company does or has, but I think what annoys people is that Toyota has been positioned as higher quality and having higher ethics than others. Well I never really thought they had or do.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Toyota is no different than any other big company.

Profits rule their world. They exist for no other reason than to make money.

For some stupid reason they just didn't include software that almost every other company has: Brakes pull the throttle shut.

So [censored] simple. They probably saved about .50 per unit!


I doubt it was as high as $.50 per car. I have 3 Toyota products right now but all have the Denso ETC system which is fine. When Toyota decided to expand they took the risk that all automakers take...expand your supplier base beyond your long time trusted suppliers. Now with lean manufacturing principles in place ( created by Toyota) they have to trust that all of the parts a supplier sends to them are identical in quality and design as the prototypes that were initially approved. So, Toyota just got burned by their own lean system. Is it their fault: NO. It is their responsibility: Absolutely YES. Are they learning a huge painful lesson: Yes.

Toyotas relationship with Denso dates way way back to personal relationships between executives so the level of trust and responsibility runs deep and is a Japanese cultural responsibility . The relationship with CTS is not the same and business only. I only hope for the sake of the people at both companies that this was truly an unintended failure and not the result of cost cutting on the part of CTS without prior knowledge from Toyota. I have seen that on many occasions where a supplier gets design acceptance and passes PPAP and then after a few months starts substituting Chinese outsourced components into assemblies to pump up profit figures.

In any case...I would imagine Toyota will re-think their supplier development policies. This recall is going to cost them dearly. I do believe they have now crossed the GM threshold for being so big the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

I will be shopping Ford on my next purchase. After the 30% cost reduction announcement by Toyota and now this...I'm a bit skeptical about their next 2-3 years of product reliability/quality.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
True but that doesn't mean in the pursuit of profits Toyota or any other company shouldn't have to follow ethics. I don't think they were acting too ethically. And maybe they weren't acting any less ethically than any other company does or has, but I think what annoys people is that Toyota has been positioned as higher quality and having higher ethics than others. Well I never really thought they had or do.


Ethics never enter into the situation until the recall information hits the CEO level. Recall is a dirty word at all manufacturers and there are layers of Vice Presidents who will do anything to prevent a recall from happening and cover and hide it. But once it gets to the Executive suite and we see how they handle everything.....then ethics come into play. Anyone who actually believes Toyota is more ethical than any other corporation is simply kidding themselves.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: 7TFord
If someone knows for certain the exact details of the issue here could they comment please? They have branded this as a "faulty gas pedal" but the few incidents I had heard of left me under the impression that the floor mat was moving forward and accidentally holding the pedal down, either by becoming unhooked from the attachments or not being reinstalled properly if removed. Is there actually a mechanical defect in the accelerator apparatus or is it an electrical issue with these newer drive-by-wire electronically controlled throttle systems?

---


Not the floor mat. It is a cheap component in the ETC system.

 

[edwardh1]

Originally Posted By: Char Baby
There was a time when I bought Toyota or Honda because they gave me something the the domostics weren't giving me..."Reliability" and dealer service during the warranty period. Should I have and issue with one of the cars under warranty, they(Toy/Hon) took car of it! Unlike the domestics car dealerships who avoided me like the plague and actually blamed me for the cars problem or broken part. I know that this dealer service that I received from the forign car dealerships isn't universal across the board but this was my good experience(for years!).

I will not be buying Toyota any time soon as I have seen their quality going down since I made my last purchace and this in not acceptable. I don't know what I'll buy next. I certainly would buy domestic these days as their quality has come a long way and so has their dealer service. Plus I really like their product. I beleive that most of the domestic car dealerships have gotten rid of most of the @$$#*!&$ that I had to deal with in the past. Beleive me, I will not put up with these kinds of sales/service practices. These people were @$$#*!&$. You wouldn't beleive it! This is what drove me to buy forign! Now I beleive I will be comming back. Or at least not buying Toyota's


The question is, who is the next toyota? Honda? Ford?

And is the defective part, whatever it is, new, or just made by a new vendor.
I always ask, why did the failures start? did you change something? why didnt the "old" parts fail?

 

[7TFord]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Not the floor mat. It is a cheap component in the ETC system.

If you know, when did Toyota stop using the Denso ETC components and is this fix then a matter of going back to these units?

 

[grampi]

I think the real meat of the matter will be in how long it takes Toyota to get back to their quality roots. Will they turn it around quickly before their reputation is permenantly damaged, or will they continue to slip for decades like the big 3 did?

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: 7TFord
If someone knows for certain the exact details of the issue here could they comment please? They have branded this as a "faulty gas pedal" but the few incidents I had heard of left me under the impression that the floor mat was moving forward and accidentally holding the pedal down, either by becoming unhooked from the attachments or not being reinstalled properly if removed. Is there actually a mechanical defect in the accelerator apparatus or is it an electrical issue with these newer drive-by-wire electronically controlled throttle systems?

You beat me to it. I was going to post the same thing. Journalists put a lot of color into their articles, but they historically fail to report the technical detail of the problem in terms that us gearheads can understand. I went through this during the "Ford slipping into reverse" back in 1977, and the "Audi sudden acceleration" back in 1986. In each case I could find only one article out of dozens where they presented the issue in a manner that I can understand and finally see what the problem was.