Toyota to cut auto parts costs by 30 percent

[ShiningArcanine]

Originally Posted By: cousincletus
From what I have experienced, import parts in general cost at least double than the Chevy dealer charges. Sometimes up to 5X more. There are exceptions, but that's what initially got me started buying GMs years ago. They have the most available, cheapest parts in the business. Now, what Toyota pays the suppliers is another story. It's probably close to what any other mfg pays.


This is why I do not buy stuff from the dealership. I always buy aftermarket stuff and use that.

 

[bruno]

The beginning of the end !!!

About a dozen years or so past VW had a guy in charge of cutting costs - think his name was Lopez ! He cut costs alright - and VW has been paying the price ever since ! Or rather VW owners have been paying for [censored] quality parts ever since !

 

[Colt]

Originally Posted By: bruno
The beginning of the end !!!

About a dozen years or so past VW had a guy in charge of cutting costs - think his name was Lopez ! He cut costs alright - and VW has been paying the price ever since ! Or rather VW owners have been paying for [censored] quality parts ever since !
VW isn't doing too bad.VW is about to become the #1 vehicle maker in the world.

http://blogs.automotive.com/6605301/opin...aker/index.html

 

[ShiningArcanine]

Originally Posted By: bruno
The beginning of the end !!!

About a dozen years or so past VW had a guy in charge of cutting costs - think his name was Lopez ! He cut costs alright - and VW has been paying the price ever since ! Or rather VW owners have been paying for [censored] quality parts ever since !


Well, there is a possibility that Toyota could cut costs without sacrificing quality, but most likely, they will not suceed. I will be telling friends and relatives to buy Hondas from now on. Toyota isn't what it used to be (e.g. transmission issues, sudden acceleration, other miscellaneous computer related issues) and although it is still up there (mechanically their vehicles are fine), I understand that Honda surpassed them recently and judging from this news, I suspect that Toyota's quality will decline as time passes.

The only way I see them succeeding in cutting parts costs would be by buying out their suppliers (vertical integration) and possibly by also switching to plastic engine designs (see wikipedia's plastic engine article). If they are lucky, they might also be able to make the trunk cover, hood and wheels plastic, but I don't think there is much more they could do.

 

[AcuraTech]

Paint these days is pretty poor, you really have to baby it to keep it looking nice. Some of the German luxury marques are an exception. I'm thinking of Honda Nighthawk black especially, I've seen a few with premature clearcoat failure. All it takes is one good bird dropping to leave a permanent scar.

Then again, when has OEM paint really been very good? 80's and 90's domestic cars had orange peel problems, Japanese cars would rust to high heaven up until mid 90's models. Mid 80's and back before clear coat became the norm the cars would be rotten or severely faded within a decade or less.

Certain colors are definitely worse than others, the lighter colors seem to hold up better. Some red cars will oxidize something awful if not kept polished.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
From what I have experienced, import parts in general cost at least double than the Chevy dealer charges. Sometimes up to 5X more. There are exceptions, but that's what initially got me started buying GMs years ago. They have the most available, cheapest parts in the business. Now, what Toyota pays the suppliers is another story. It's probably close to what any other mfg pays.


This is why I do not buy stuff from the dealership. I always buy aftermarket stuff and use that.

I wish I could buy aftermarket stuff for my Saturn, however, it seems that the only stuff that fails is the stuff that is dealer only!

I feel like they got me by the balls.

Anyway, sure a Toyota part may cost more, but I rarely ever see a Toyota ignition lock cylinder fail at 50,000 miles! Their's usually fail at 180,000 miles. I'd be happy to pay much more if the part lasted longer.

You might as well say that it is better to buy the cheaply rebuilt alternators that have one new part, rather than an expensive premium alternator where anything that can wear out is replaced.

 

[bruno]

VW ain't doing bad but VW owners sure are !

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine
If they are lucky, they might also be able to make the trunk cover, hood and wheels plastic, but I don't think there is much more they could do.


Make cars out of Plastic??

What a idea!!

Maybe this could be what saves GM....

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine
If they are lucky, they might also be able to make the trunk cover, hood and wheels plastic, but I don't think there is much more they could do.


Make cars out of Plastic??

What a idea!!

Maybe this could be what saves GM....

My Saturn ION has a trunk and hood made from steel. All the other body parts are plastic.

 

[pidster]

Originally Posted By: AcuraTech

Certain colors are definitely worse than others, the lighter colors seem to hold up better. Some red cars will oxidize something awful if not kept polished.


Yep, this is not new. My 1995 Toyota was a nice deep red when new, and has faded to the classic toyota `competition pink` (as I`ve heard it described on Toyota forums) over the years.

Paint does seem to have gotten thinner, though, my mother`s 2004 Corolla has more hood chips (right through the primer & starting to rust) than my 1995 (with three times the mileage) does.

I haven`t really noticed anything else that has been cheapened between these two cars yet, interiors are similar and no major mech. problems on the newer car yet. But we are comparing entry level (Tercel) to mid (Corolla). I haven`t ever ridden in a newer Echo or Yaris to be able to compare build quality to the old Tercel.

Mechanical simplicity is the biggest factor in long term reliability though, and that is gone - even on the cheapest entry-level models. You can`t buy a car anymore without all those emissions controls, airbags, ABS, drive by wire electronics etc. to go nuts in 10 years and make the car too expensive to keep.

 

[Steve S]

Toyota quality HAS dropped

 

[Vizzy]

I think that a few auto makers might start to understand the value of a high quality BASIC car once again.

Toyota used to have this concept aced years ago with the Corolla, and also things like the Starlet. It is true that many buyers like their gadgets BUT there has been a seachange due to the economy and I believe that bottom line quality and value will be once again the most highly valued by the economically hindered consumer.

Note to ALL auto makers including Toyota, there MANY folks around that would prefer to have a very high quality basic platform and hard parts without all the baubles and fluff.
Your marketing folks might not want to tell you the truth about this since the gadgets increase profit margins, yet if you build the basic unit to a very high standard you will get return customers and referrals in droves.

Not that I love the Corolla, BUT back in the day (late 70's to mid 80s) I'd gladly pay the extra to buy a basic unit because
I knew that my money would be well spent with few (if any) failures of the critical hard parts or the platform compared to a similar model from any of the competition. That is what made Toyota great.

I THINK TOYOTA IS MAKING A HUGE MISTAKE WITH THIS CHOICE !

 

[ShiningArcanine]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine
Originally Posted By: cousincletus
From what I have experienced, import parts in general cost at least double than the Chevy dealer charges. Sometimes up to 5X more. There are exceptions, but that's what initially got me started buying GMs years ago. They have the most available, cheapest parts in the business. Now, what Toyota pays the suppliers is another story. It's probably close to what any other mfg pays.


This is why I do not buy stuff from the dealership. I always buy aftermarket stuff and use that.

I wish I could buy aftermarket stuff for my Saturn, however, it seems that the only stuff that fails is the stuff that is dealer only!

I feel like they got me by the balls.

Anyway, sure a Toyota part may cost more, but I rarely ever see a Toyota ignition lock cylinder fail at 50,000 miles! Their's usually fail at 180,000 miles. I'd be happy to pay much more if the part lasted longer.

You might as well say that it is better to buy the cheaply rebuilt alternators that have one new part, rather than an expensive premium alternator where anything that can wear out is replaced.


Well, the parts I usually buy are oil filters, air filters, fuel filters, PCV valves and motor oil. The alternator, ignition lock cylinder, etcetera are all things that I have never had to replace. I do not expect to ever have to replace them.

A few semi-exotic things have died on me though. The front window regulators, radio antenna motor, driver side sun shade and power steering pump have all died/broken. The radio antenna motor actually died twice because water had frozen on the antenna (twice) as I was driving in inclement weather. After the second time, I realized what was happening, so I make sure that I do not use the radio when the temperature is below the freezing point; I have not had a problem with the antenna's motor since. I also had some corrosion on the battery terminals, although I think that was avoidable and I plan to do what I can to avoid it in the future. Lastly, the engine developed false seals from the years of poor maintenance, so I had to have it resealed. My father would change the oil and reuse same oil filter for anywhere from 2 to 5 oil changes, which most likely caused the bypass valve to be used for extended periods of time. He also never changed the PCV valve, air filter and fuel filter, so they were all about 11 years old when I first had them replaced. If anything goes wrong with the car in the next 20 years, it will most likely be the rear window regulators, a few light bulbs and possibly the power steering pump (although I think the power steering pump failure was an isolated incident). I expect everything else will work without incident.

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine
If they are lucky, they might also be able to make the trunk cover, hood and wheels plastic, but I don't think there is much more they could do.


Make cars out of Plastic??

What a idea!!

Maybe this could be what saves GM....

They actually make special plastics that have properties that are different from the properties people consider plastics to have. They are more expensive than the plastics out of which people are used to seeing stuff made, but I would expect them to be cheaper than steel/iron/aluminum. They are the sort of thing you would never expect GM to use to produce cars and I doubt GM would even consider using them.

Originally Posted By: pidster
Originally Posted By: AcuraTech

Certain colors are definitely worse than others, the lighter colors seem to hold up better. Some red cars will oxidize something awful if not kept polished.


Yep, this is not new. My 1995 Toyota was a nice deep red when new, and has faded to the classic toyota `competition pink` (as I`ve heard it described on Toyota forums) over the years.

Paint does seem to have gotten thinner, though, my mother`s 2004 Corolla has more hood chips (right through the primer & starting to rust) than my 1995 (with three times the mileage) does.


What model is your 1995 Toyota? I have a 1995 Ruby Red Toyota Avalon and its paint is still the same color it was in 1995.

 

[benjamming]

Originally Posted By: AcuraTech
I'm thinking of Honda Nighthawk black especially, I've seen a few with premature clearcoat failure. All it takes is one good bird dropping to leave a permanent scar.


That is oh so true as I have this color on our Accord. I couldn't believe it when it happened for the 1st time on the roof. It has since happened on the driver's side mirror & a few spots on the hood. Horrible, absolutely horrible.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: unDummy
There can be a drop in price if they get rid of all the useless options and return to less bloated vehicles.

Also, there is plenty of waste in manufacturing. Forcing cost reduction requires some engineering, planning, and thinking. Doesn't always mean quality suffers or off-shoring to commieland.

When you have growth and sales, you don't always 'build' with the most efficiency. Now that volume has decreased, they can look back over their shoulders and cut all the waste.




There is a cheap Toyota car that you are describing, the Yaris, it's as basic as a car can get these days and look at the dismal sales figures in US, in Canada it does somewhat better, but we have more expensive fuel. People will not simply go back to the "good ald days" with crank windows, no A/C, ipod connections etc. especially when you have Korean cars offering all these features at much less cost.

Also, Toyota has been implementing Lean Manufacturing for decades and asking to lose extra 30% is like asking an anorexic person to lose 30lb of weight, you can't do it without repercussions either to the quality of the product or profitability of the company, so guess which way a corporation like this will go... cheapen the parts and outsource as much as possible.


Your facts are all wrong. All of them are wrong, in fact.

Get your facts straight before spewing on an internet thread.

1. Yaris sales are not "dismal".
2. You can get a Yaris with power windows, A/C, and an iPod jack.
3. The Korean competing brands are MORE expensive then the Yaris.

More info: http://www.nada.org/green/sellgreen/data/
More info: http://www.driverside.com/auto-library/2009_toyota_yaris-362

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: Steve S
I went to the Toyota dealer to buy parts for a Brake job and when the parts guy gave me the paperwork to pay there was only the list price on the paperwork. I asked why no discount and he said we do not do that so he kept the parts and I went elsewhere .


Do you mean you had a trade account and they gave no discount, or you were a retail buyer looking to get a discount?


+1, i dont understand why people expect a discount just because they are a breathing customer at a parts counter, do people do the same thing when they go to Home Depot or WalMart?


Yes, people do look for a great price when shopping at Home Depot, and WalMart. It's called shopping around. It happens all the time and I can't believe you don't know this.

I can't believe why some people DON'T expect a discount when they are braething customers.

Only an idiot would pay full price for Toyota parts at the dealership when there are many other cheaper options when buying genuine Toyota parts.

Perhaps you'er okay with paying full price.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: unDummy
There can be a drop in price if they get rid of all the useless options and return to less bloated vehicles.

Also, there is plenty of waste in manufacturing. Forcing cost reduction requires some engineering, planning, and thinking. Doesn't always mean quality suffers or off-shoring to commieland.

When you have growth and sales, you don't always 'build' with the most efficiency. Now that volume has decreased, they can look back over their shoulders and cut all the waste.




There is a cheap Toyota car that you are describing, the Yaris, it's as basic as a car can get these days and look at the dismal sales figures in US, in Canada it does somewhat better, but we have more expensive fuel. People will not simply go back to the "good ald days" with crank windows, no A/C, ipod connections etc. especially when you have Korean cars offering all these features at much less cost.

Also, Toyota has been implementing Lean Manufacturing for decades and asking to lose extra 30% is like asking an anorexic person to lose 30lb of weight, you can't do it without repercussions either to the quality of the product or profitability of the company, so guess which way a corporation like this will go... cheapen the parts and outsource as much as possible.


Your facts are all wrong. All of them are wrong, in fact.

Get your facts straight before spewing on an internet thread.

1. Yaris sales are not "dismal".
2. You can get a Yaris with power windows, A/C, and an iPod jack.
3. The Korean competing brands are MORE expensive then the Yaris.

More info: http://www.nada.org/green/sellgreen/data/
More info: http://www.driverside.com/auto-library/2009_toyota_yaris-362


OK, did you read unDummy's comment that I was responding to, or is it a knee jerk reaction to defend Toyota, as you think that I'm bashing Yaris? But I'll clarify anyways.

1. Yaris sales are dismal compared to Corolla which is next in price from Yaris. For example in February 2007 Toyota sold 5,702 Yaris units and 28,321 Corollas.

http://www.i-go-cars.com/autos/toyota-reports-february-sales-figures/

In July 2008 - 8,620 Yaris units were sold vs. 34,438 Corollas.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2008/08/01/095134.html

The link you provided only shows 50% increase in sales, but does not show the actual numbers. So the sales are dismal and only show that Americans don't like subcompact cars, which brings me to point 2.

2. And when did I say that Yaris can't be had with an iPod connection, power windows and A/C????

Again, I was responding to unDummy's comment that Toyota should start building less bloated cars, which they do, as Yaris is as basic as a car can get these days when you buy the basic sripper version, but Americans don't like these cars and sales show this. I know that you can have other creature comforts as well, but if you bothered reading the whole thing maybe you would've noticed that.

3. Last time I checked, Hyundai Accent can be had for 9,970 dollars (or something like that), can Yaris beat that? Your site you provided actually proves my point.

http://www.driverside.com/car-reviews/hyundai-accent-2009-29680-48650-0?style_id=120968

I admit, I was wrong in thinking that only Koreans can beat Toyota, as Nissan Versa is also cheaper than the Yaris.

http://www.driverside.com/car-user-reviews/nissan-versa-2009-23664-49192-0?style_id=121758

Are my facts straight enough for you now?

 

[ShiningArcanine]

Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: Steve S
I went to the Toyota dealer to buy parts for a Brake job and when the parts guy gave me the paperwork to pay there was only the list price on the paperwork. I asked why no discount and he said we do not do that so he kept the parts and I went elsewhere .


Do you mean you had a trade account and they gave no discount, or you were a retail buyer looking to get a discount?


+1, i dont understand why people expect a discount just because they are a breathing customer at a parts counter, do people do the same thing when they go to Home Depot or WalMart?


Yes, people do look for a great price when shopping at Home Depot, and WalMart. It's called shopping around. It happens all the time and I can't believe you don't know this.

I can't believe why some people DON'T expect a discount when they are braething customers.

Only an idiot would pay full price for Toyota parts at the dealership when there are many other cheaper options when buying genuine Toyota parts.

Perhaps you'er okay with paying full price.


It would be nice if Toyota sold OEM parts at prices reasonable enough to be competitive with aftermarket parts. That way people would not have to play these games.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Keep in mind that Toyota goes over board often. For instance the Lexus V8's have had titanium conecting roads since day one and the entire rotating assembly is ballanced to .001 gram that means the all pistons,rods and the crank that is insane for a production vechile!!!!

My 2.4 I4 in my 2003 Camry has forged rods and crank and my Dad's 2.7 in his Taco has forged rods and crank as well. With such low engine out put they could easily use a cast steel crank for instance. The 4Runners with Turbo engines had sodium filled valves the top of the line Covete Engine just got these not too long ago but Toyota had them on little low output 200HP 4 cylinders in the 1980's.

My point is that as long as they are smart about it they can easily reduce their cost with out hurting stock life expectency or drivability. In the late 80's they did a lot of expensive things like go to viton seals when all other's where useing buna still and useing Krytex grease on CV joint rebuild and other such stuff. Sometimes you have to rein in the engineers and use some reason. The trick is to do this in area's that the customer can not see,feel,hear or touch. Doing it in a way that does not weak the durability and reliability of the product. Interiors and paint are the two worst places to cut corners because the customer can see,feel and hear those area's and those are what seperate each product from the competitors imediately when you sit in a car and then drive it. No one is going to ask if the crankshaft is fordged or cast steel!

GM was stupid about it and did it in area's that caused their customers a lot of issues like wire harnes,erminal ends,ingniton switcha and cylinder,climate controls, air vents,shifter,interior pieces etc.......They did not stop their though look at all the coolant leaks,gasket failures, oil consumption,piston knock, and excessive wer metals we see on this board all the time!!!!

I suspect that TOyota will do it in a smart manner now that Family is back at the top of the company. They hopefully have learned a leson from their poor North AMerican operations that truly started to look like GM's model which we all can agree lead to their failure.

 

[rshunter]

Excellent points and very well put. Toyota does go overboard quite often and for no apparent practical reason. I'm usually no fan of the bean counters, but at times the guys with the slide-rules need to be reigned in...