Toyota T-IV or Amsoil Universal ? Help me decide.
- Thread starter trixman
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"Damage caused by fluids other than T-IV ATF is not covered by your new vehicle warranty."
That's very specific. Whether Amsoil is superior fluid (or not) is not the point. The point is that none of us know if we are going to be the unlucky ones with transmission problems. The problem for transmission failure may NOT be the fault of the Amsoil or T-IV (or whatever). BUT what if Toyota or GM or Volvo says the fluid caused the problem AND you cannot prove you have used nothing but T-IV? Now you are left to deal with Amsoil's warranty. What if Amsoil's chemists prove theif fluid did not cause the failure? They are not going to pay the warranty bill and rightfully not. Now, your dealing with the auto maker who have said they won't pay for your transmission because you didn't stick with T-IV, forcing you to either take them to arbitration or to Court or pay for the repair/replacement trans. yourself.
Yeah, it almost certainly won't happen because Amsoil makes a great ATF and because today's transmissions are very reliable...and because 'How can "they" tell I strayed away from T-IV?'
But...what if it DOES happen...to you?
That's very specific. Whether Amsoil is superior fluid (or not) is not the point. The point is that none of us know if we are going to be the unlucky ones with transmission problems. The problem for transmission failure may NOT be the fault of the Amsoil or T-IV (or whatever). BUT what if Toyota or GM or Volvo says the fluid caused the problem AND you cannot prove you have used nothing but T-IV? Now you are left to deal with Amsoil's warranty. What if Amsoil's chemists prove theif fluid did not cause the failure? They are not going to pay the warranty bill and rightfully not. Now, your dealing with the auto maker who have said they won't pay for your transmission because you didn't stick with T-IV, forcing you to either take them to arbitration or to Court or pay for the repair/replacement trans. yourself.
Yeah, it almost certainly won't happen because Amsoil makes a great ATF and because today's transmissions are very reliable...and because 'How can "they" tell I strayed away from T-IV?'
But...what if it DOES happen...to you?
Kestas
Staff member
For the cost of the specified T-IV ATF (or Mobil ATF 3309), it's not worth looking for a replacement fluid. I can buy it at the local Toyota dealer on my home from work for $5/qt for my Volvo. Just don't pay the $16 dealer price from Volvo.
On the other hand, the new 'lifetime' Mercedes transmission fluid at $16/qt merits discussion.
On the other hand, the new 'lifetime' Mercedes transmission fluid at $16/qt merits discussion.
For the cost of a new trans, why mess around with the "universal" fluids.........?
I tried pennzoil All makes, and after a few months, my RAV4 did not like it......, harsh shifts, and lots of noises..
mobil 3309 fixed the whole problem, stay with a fluid that the trans is meant for .......,
Search around there has been a nice little debate around here......mainly on the amsoil side of things......
To the OP , just for fun call up Amsoil and ask them how to go about using their "warranty" , when yours trans falls apart ? They dont even have a warranty claims number ?....
I tried pennzoil All makes, and after a few months, my RAV4 did not like it......, harsh shifts, and lots of noises..
mobil 3309 fixed the whole problem, stay with a fluid that the trans is meant for .......,
Search around there has been a nice little debate around here......mainly on the amsoil side of things......
To the OP , just for fun call up Amsoil and ask them how to go about using their "warranty" , when yours trans falls apart ? They dont even have a warranty claims number ?....
The statement in the owner's manual is very specific, but uses plenty of wiggle words. The warranty can only be voided if the use of a non-approved T-IV fluid CAUSED THE FAILURE. The dealership has to supply the proof that it truly did cause it. If they cannot, then they cannot void your warranty.
The terminology is really for consumers who aren't fluid-savy enough to find better options. So they use it to prevent people from buying the cheapest ATF that is not designed for their transmission. A consumer who knows nothing of cars, and its lubrication needs, would most likely see that the Super Tech ATF (DexronIII/Mercon) is a lot cheaper than the other stuff, so they'd buy that. Well, a few miles later the transmission takes a s***, and the consumer is stuck with the bill because they were negligent and deserve to pay it.
The terminology is really for consumers who aren't fluid-savy enough to find better options. So they use it to prevent people from buying the cheapest ATF that is not designed for their transmission. A consumer who knows nothing of cars, and its lubrication needs, would most likely see that the Super Tech ATF (DexronIII/Mercon) is a lot cheaper than the other stuff, so they'd buy that. Well, a few miles later the transmission takes a s***, and the consumer is stuck with the bill because they were negligent and deserve to pay it.
Flathead makes a compelling point... This is why I have been hesitant although I am convinced the Amsoil is a superior ATF.
If there is a problem, I know Toyota has a history of stonewalling (think sludge fiasco).
Maybe waiting to be out of warranty is wiser.
Amsoil has a perfect record of not voiding any warranty (even with extended fluid changes) in 35 years for any of their recommended product applications. Plus they offer their own warranty. Don't worry about it.
I've wrestled with the same thing. Looking for a syn alternative to T-IV. However, I've had to fight with dealers to get repairs done in warranty. I decided to not make it easy for a dealer to deny warranty and stick with OEM T-IV fluid.
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9012226&contentId=7028224
Try this recomended for toyota I use this in my 2002 Tacoma
Try this recomended for toyota I use this in my 2002 Tacoma
Unless you use Type-F, mineral dex/merc, or some other non-HMF'd cheapo ATF, you won't have a 'fluid caused' failure. Most transmission failures are now caused by sloppy programming, cheap mechanical parts sourced from the lowest bidder, and electronical failures.
Exactly what warranty repairs is everyone having that are being denied?
How soon before we are forced to use OEM gasoline?
Lets list my non-OEM parts that never caused a problem: tires, brakes, rotors, shocks, struts, air filters, oil, oil filters, brake fluid, ATF, PSF, coolant, thermostat, o2 sensor, fuel filters, plugs, wires, wipers, washer fluid, oil drainplug, various seals and washers, cabin filter, belts, idler pulleys, battery, alternator, starter, clutch kits, flywheels........
In the dozen vehicles that I've owned, I've never had a warranty denial because of non-OEM parts, or aftermarket parts that I've installed.
You guys either have the worst dealers around or you just don't know how to deal with the warranty process. Wear some pants once in your life.
A little sidenote for some of you, warranty repairs don't always need to be performed by the dealer. Understand the warranty and read all the small print. You or your mechanic can bill the automaker through their warranty process.
Exactly what warranty repairs is everyone having that are being denied?
How soon before we are forced to use OEM gasoline?
Lets list my non-OEM parts that never caused a problem: tires, brakes, rotors, shocks, struts, air filters, oil, oil filters, brake fluid, ATF, PSF, coolant, thermostat, o2 sensor, fuel filters, plugs, wires, wipers, washer fluid, oil drainplug, various seals and washers, cabin filter, belts, idler pulleys, battery, alternator, starter, clutch kits, flywheels........
In the dozen vehicles that I've owned, I've never had a warranty denial because of non-OEM parts, or aftermarket parts that I've installed.
You guys either have the worst dealers around or you just don't know how to deal with the warranty process. Wear some pants once in your life.
A little sidenote for some of you, warranty repairs don't always need to be performed by the dealer. Understand the warranty and read all the small print. You or your mechanic can bill the automaker through their warranty process.
Exactly. I know the fluid isn't the problem, but with my luck I'll be getting a lemon transmission. I'm not giving the dealer any reason to wiggle out of warranty repair. Just like the other poster said. Amsoil blaming the transmission. The dealer blaming the use of non spec fluid. go to an independent shop for warranty repair? Your crazy.
I read another Nissan driver fellow had a transmision problem with his sentra towed it to independent to get it fixed. Nissan wouldn't reimburse him because he didn't go to a Nissan Dealer! Maybe there is a section in the owners manual that says that but if your willing to front me a Lawyer to pay for my expenses to get my car fixed, transmission tear down/diagnose failure, car rental and lawyers fee. I'm all for it.
When Amsoil says it Universal ATF is recommended for T-IV applications, what do they actually mean?
Do they understand the chemistry of the T-IV ATF and their fluid chemistry has taken that into account, or their fluid exceeds the T-IV requirement in all applications based on their data.
Curious why would AW and Mobil have 3309 fluid in the market and why doesn't Mobil's own synthetic ATF claim it is T-IV compatabile.
Is Mobil bound by some legal constraints (like AW pays for testing and owns the chemistry of the fluid) that they cannot add the chemistry to their regular line of products.
Do they understand the chemistry of the T-IV ATF and their fluid chemistry has taken that into account, or their fluid exceeds the T-IV requirement in all applications based on their data.
Curious why would AW and Mobil have 3309 fluid in the market and why doesn't Mobil's own synthetic ATF claim it is T-IV compatabile.
Is Mobil bound by some legal constraints (like AW pays for testing and owns the chemistry of the fluid) that they cannot add the chemistry to their regular line of products.
Amsoil was the first to manufacture a synthetic automatic transmission fluid for automotive use in 1980.
When Amsoil says it is recommended for T-IV applications, it means it has been tested in the lab, in vehicles, and offer a free parts and labor warranty on that transmission should that application recommendation or the fluid ever fail up to 50,000 severe/100,000 normal miles or longer if stated in the owners manual. It never has.
When Amsoil says it is recommended for T-IV applications, it means it has been tested in the lab, in vehicles, and offer a free parts and labor warranty on that transmission should that application recommendation or the fluid ever fail up to 50,000 severe/100,000 normal miles or longer if stated in the owners manual. It never has.
Onion, actually Amsoil pays a few warranty claims each year. And in each case, the oil did not fail. It is usually operator error, such as never checking the oil level in 20,000 miles. And in some sludger engines trying to go 35,000 miles. But have never voided a factory warranty.
Good will and publicity. And so people won't question whether Amsoil will pay on their warranty.
I agree with onion. Run EXACTLY what the manual calls for during the warranty period...and the extended warranty, as well, if you bought one. My '03 V-8 Tundra calls for T-IV. Drivetrain warranty was for 60,000 mi. & I never buy the extended warranty.
I stayed with T-IV after the warranty had expired for two reasons: T-IV is what the book calls for and (I do a pan drain every 15,000 miles) the transmission shifts so dog-gone well that I hesitate to change from T-IV. (The pickup now has 80,000+ miles).
HOWEVER, it does make sense after the factory drivetrain warranty is out to switch to Amsoil universal ATF as (1) Amsoil specs. it for T-IV usage, (2) it IS synthetic, where T-IV is not, and (3) you do have Amsoil's warranty, as opposed to NO warranty, which offers at least some comfort.
I stayed with T-IV after the warranty had expired for two reasons: T-IV is what the book calls for and (I do a pan drain every 15,000 miles) the transmission shifts so dog-gone well that I hesitate to change from T-IV. (The pickup now has 80,000+ miles).
HOWEVER, it does make sense after the factory drivetrain warranty is out to switch to Amsoil universal ATF as (1) Amsoil specs. it for T-IV usage, (2) it IS synthetic, where T-IV is not, and (3) you do have Amsoil's warranty, as opposed to NO warranty, which offers at least some comfort.
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