Toyota not liking Valvoline Maxlife ATF?

[rob1715]

If it's specd for WS, use it. Take an empty gallon milk or water jug and have them fill it up with WS. That'll save off buying individual qrts.

 

[Trav]

I get what you’re saying, but doing a simple drain and fill on a Toyota wouldn’t cause any sort of disturbance that would cause the filter to clog. I do agree that changing a transmission filter every 100,000 miles or so is probably a good idea, but I’d have to say there’s no way that filter would get clogged doing a drain and fill.

Having said that...I just noticed you’re an L1 certified tech...have you ever seen that before? Because I haven’t.

Believe it or not I have once on an old 70 Chevy pickup, the truck would not move in any direction. I was still in school and had zero idea what I was doing but I checked the fluid level first then pulled the pan anyway and changed the filter and filled her with new fluid and SOB it worked like a champ and lasted till it was sold 6 years later.

I think it has more to do with the type and size of filter material being used and the amount of friction material sitting in the pan. The OP's transmission is still working just not as well by his estimation, the fluid he used should be okay so I would say it may be partial clogging or the old friction material in the fluid was the only thing keeping the plates from slipping which would not be the best thing.
This is the reason I don't care for drain and fills without pulling the pan and changing the filter is the unit has one that can be changed, some do not.

Filters can clog for sure after long use, look at some engines that accumulate deposits on the bottom of the pan and end up clogging the rock catcher, granted they are a different type of deposit and also not that common of an issue but it can and occasionally does happen.

 

[tcp71]

Because that transmission is spec to use Toyota WS. That's the newer type of Low Viscosity fluid, identical viscosity with a lot of the synthetic fluids on the market.
The only problem with Toyota factory fill is that's not synthetic. Might be great for Canad or Japan climate, but not so much for US traffic jams in hot southern states.

That's just bogus. There are no "compromises" in the fluid on the market. They are all very similar (identical almost) in their characteristics, Toyota doesn't use some super-duper, alien-made fluid in their transmissions, they base their specs on what is available on the market.

The car manufacturers are all buying the fluid from transmission oil packagers and those packages are standardized in the industry. Synthetic fluids need less modifiers, because of their intrinsic better proprieties.

PS: Toyota it's also not a religion...

The friction characteristics (modifiers) are specified by manufacturers. There are specifications for viscosity as well, resulting in a change to "low viscosity" fluids and now "ultra low viscosity" types (For example, Ford's mercon V, mercon LV and now mercon ULV). Universal fluids can't meet all those requirements in a single type.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I have used Maxlife in many Toyotas, mostly older thn your Scion, with excellent results.
I use Idemitsu WS equivalent in newer Toyotas, like our GS, but I find it hard to believe Maxlife is your problem.
Good luck.

 

[SoNic67]

The friction characteristics (modifiers) are specified by manufacturers. There are specifications for viscosity as well, resulting in a change to "low viscosity" fluids and now "ultra low viscosity" types (For example, Ford's mercon V, mercon LV and now mercon ULV). Universal fluids can't meet all those requirements in a single type.

Nobody tries to meet Normal, LV or ULV in one fluid. That's not what are we talking about, let's not make this a red herring.

In the range of LV for example, the posted specs are not that different. If you look at the fluids posted characteristics you will see that. There is no "magic" involved, transmission manufactures are working with the same initial data for fluid.
I am not saying to use Mercon LV instead of WS (even if they are very close), I am saying the between a non-OE like MaxLife or AMSOIL and OE WS there is not a significant difference. Numbers don't lie. And where there are differences they are usually in favor of the non-OE fluids (being synthetic they have better volatility and low temperature performance).

Now, for me, last time I used Aisin WS fluid instead of MaxLife, because it was cost effective, even shipped from Rockauto. And I will use it in the future too, just need plan the order before I do the actual job.

 

[Job]

Because that transmission is spec to use Toyota WS. That's the newer type of Low Viscosity fluid, identical viscosity with a lot of the synthetic fluids on the market.
The only problem with Toyota factory fill is that's not synthetic. Might be great for Canad or Japan climate, but not so much for US traffic jams in hot southern states.

That's just bogus. There are no "compromises" in the fluid on the market. They are all very similar (identical almost) in their characteristics, Toyota doesn't use some super-duper, alien-made fluid in their transmissions, they base their specs on what is available on the market.

The car manufacturers are all buying the fluid from transmission oil packagers and those packages are standardized in the industry. Synthetic fluids need less modifiers, because of their intrinsic better proprieties.

PS: Toyota it's also not a religion...

Pretty sure Toyota with a contract offer to supply every dealer in the land, specifies what their engineers decide, then the oil company makes it. Big contract gets what it wants. If I was OP I would start changing out the oil for genuine asap. Probably take several changes to get it back to what it was. Which was "shifting fine. It isn't significant money on something that is changed so infrequently to not use the exact fluid.

 

[atikovi]

If I was OP I would start changing out the oil for genuine asap. Probably take several changes to get it back to what it was. Which was "shifting fine. It isn't significant money on something that is changed so infrequently to not use the exact fluid.

^This, although the Maxlife fanboys would disagree.

 

[nthach]

^This, although the Maxlife fanboys would disagree.

I used MaxLife in a Frontier, the owner didn’t like the shift feel. Back to Nissan fluid it went.

MaxLife is like Frank’s Red Hot here - people put that stuff into everything. And it does work with acceptable results for many I will admit.

 

[JMJNet]

OP? not here anymore?

 

[blupupher]

I used Maxlife ATF in my kids 2012 Scion xB (same U241E transmission) @ 30,000 miles with a slight increase in shift firmness (which I like).
Did another change with Havoline Dex VI @ 50,000 miles (with a filter change) with no noticeable changes in how it shifted.

I would wager it is nothing to do with the type of fluid, and everything to do with the 160,000 neglected miles on it.
Even OEM WS fluid would probably caused a change in shifting.

Curious to the OP, why you even mention Dexron VI?

Because many equate WS and Dex VI as being pretty much identical specs (with Dex VI being better due to being synthetic).
Most every Dex VI approved fluid also carries a "compatible" or "works with" WS on the label.

 

[HonorAndHonesty]

I have been running maxlife in my 09 Xb for the past 35k miles. It has had 4 drain and fills since I started using it so there isnt much of the old WS fluid in there.

It shifted just fine before and shifts just fine now. Car has 130k miles on it.

How did the fluid look and smell when you initially drained it? What did the magnetic drain plug look like?

 

[AutoMechanic]

Did you check fluid level with it running? Could be over filled or under filled. I use Castrol Transmax Import Multi Vehicle fluid in our Toyota transmissions works fine.

 

[doublebase]

Why wouldn't you be using Toyota IV fluid?

Sorry, didn't realize the car took lV Toyota fluid, I'm used to newer Toyotas I guess. I figured an 09 Toyota would use WS fluid.

 

[clinebarger]

I’ve used Maxlife on my 4T45e, 4T65e, and 4L60e and they all shifted poorly with it. Replacing the Maxlife with licensed DexVI fixed my shift issues. I don’t own any GM vehicles past MY2010 so I have no experience with their 6 speed autos.

I've used Maxlife LV in 4L60E's without issue, But I rarely build old GM transaxles anymore as the cost is now outweighing the value of those cars. I would've like to feel what they did.....Oh well....YMMV

Better in what way (smoother, firmer)?

Smoother

 

[clinebarger]

Believe it or not I have once on an old 70 Chevy pickup, the truck would not move in any direction. I was still in school and had zero idea what I was doing but I checked the fluid level first then pulled the pan anyway and changed the filter and filled her with new fluid and SOB it worked like a champ and lasted till it was sold 6 years later.

I think it has more to do with the type and size of filter material being used and the amount of friction material sitting in the pan. The OP's transmission is still working just not as well by his estimation, the fluid he used should be okay so I would say it may be partial clogging or the old friction material in the fluid was the only thing keeping the plates from slipping which would not be the best thing.
This is the reason I don't care for drain and fills without pulling the pan and changing the filter is the unit has one that can be changed, some do not.

Filters can clog for sure after long use, look at some engines that accumulate deposits on the bottom of the pan and end up clogging the rock catcher, granted they are a different type of deposit and also not that common of an issue but it can and occasionally does happen.

Most Aisin units use screen filters. If your old Chevy had a TH400.....It was quite common for the media filter to clog.

 

[dblshock]

it's all the same price just use WS, trying to out smart them?

 

[IveBeenRued]

Nobody tries to meet Normal, LV or ULV in one fluid. That's not what are we talking about, let's not make this a red herring.

In the range of LV for example, the posted specs are not that different. If you look at the fluids posted characteristics you will see that. There is no "magic" involved, transmission manufactures are working with the same initial data for fluid.
I am not saying to use Mercon LV instead of WS (even if they are very close), I am saying the between a non-OE like MaxLife or AMSOIL and OE WS there is not a significant difference. Numbers don't lie. And where there are differences they are usually in favor of the non-OE fluids (being synthetic they have better volatility and low temperature performance).

Now, for me, last time I used Aisin WS fluid instead of MaxLife, because it was cost effective, even shipped from Rockauto. And I will use it in the future too, just need plan the order before I do the actual job.

Doesn’t sound like a red herring to me:

 

[wdn]

The Castrol Transmax full synthetic ATF is certified by Toyota for use in all of its automatic transmissions, unlike Valvoline Maxlife multi vehicle which has no manufacturer certifications whatsoever. Not only is Maxlife have no manufacturer approvals it actually tells you that in black & white on its product data sheet. There have been plenty of cases of Maxlife multi vehicle ATF botching someone’s transmission on here and especially in manufacturer-specific forums. Here though, people who report problems with Maxlife tend to get naysayed, second-guessed and generally treated like lepers. Case in point: this thread. It usually goes like this, I put in Maxlife, transmission started shifting crappy, drained the Maxlife and put back OEM or a licensed aftermarket ATF, problem solved.

 

[nthach]

The Castrol Transmax full synthetic ATF is certified by Toyota for use in all of its automatic transmissions, unlike Valvoline Maxlife multi vehicle which has no manufacturer certifications whatsoever. Not only is Maxlife have no manufacturer approvals it actually tells you that in black & white on its product data sheet. There have been plenty of cases of Maxlife multi vehicle ATF botching someone’s transmission on here and especially in manufacturer-specific forums. Here though, people who report problems with Maxlife tend to get naysayed, second-guessed and generally treated like lepers. Case in point: this thread. It usually goes like this, I put in Maxlife, transmission started shifting crappy, drained the Maxlife and put back OEM or a licensed aftermarket ATF, problem solved.

Toyota doesn’t license out their specs or test like ZF does. But, I have more faith in Castrol IMV. I use it in a Sienna with no issues and when I had an old LS400 that called for T-IV, I used it in that as well. MaxLife has a little “flutter” in it if used in a T-IV application from my observations. Castrol IMV feels identical to Toyota T-IV.

 

[Graham Piccinini]

For what it's worth: I used MaxLife in 10 Toyotas, ranging from MY1999-MY2010. Most of them worked well, 2 of the vehicles (both with A650E) started slipping. Don't know if I can blame MaxLife for that though.
- First is a 2000 Lexus GS300 with 365k miles. That tranny started slipping 5k miles after a drain & fill with MaxLife. But again, I think this failure is age/mileage related.
- Second is 2003 Lexus IS300 with 220k miles. MaxLife Drain&Fill at 190k/200k/210k/220k. But I believe that one started slipping due to my teenager brother drifting it and doing burnouts for about 3 hours daily, not an over-exaggeration. He got it at 190k, by 220k it started slipping... Not bad for an old worn transmission. Used 140k tranny went back in, gets abused slightly less thankfully.