You mean based on your unique and specific driving patterns and operational conditions in California? And based on a Blackstone Labs analysis that is useless to detect fuel dilution?
Toyota Hybrid Recommendations
- Thread starter lone_hot_pocket
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This isn't Honda or BMW. I have 150k miles of experience with Dynamic Force Hybrid, involving ample city driving. I do not use Blackstone.
The idea in this thread is to help the OP, based upon his inquiry. There is no need to be overly cautious and create unneeded head room.
Oh okay. I just never have seen you post an analysis from anywhere else besides Blackstone.
Shel_B
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What's the concern of running 0W-16 in that engine?
It is 100% WearCheck Sir.
I understand the limits of the data, and the dipstick is smelled and checked for fluid level almost daily, providing a bit of a window.
Dynamic Force has proven to be a very good thing, based upon what I have experienced and read. The eyes remain wide open as to any fuel diluters in Toyotas and less favorable driving conditions.
I know Ford went back to thicker oil with EcoBoost, but here is Toyota going thinner.
Not enough data samples of long term use of 0w-16, just like it took a long time for BITOG to accept 20-weight oil as acceptable
Interesting, can't say I gave much thought to staying with 0w-8 however a higher end version such as HPL might be worth a look.
Brand new Rav4 Hybrid in signature. Mine calls for 0W16 and has a sticker of that under the hood. Changed factory fill and filter at 901 miles with Mobil 1 0W20 Hybrid & Fram TG. Presently at 1531 miles and still averaging in Eco mode 50.1 miles per gallon as parked today after work at home.
Under Warranty? = 0w-8
Toyota must have recalibrated the oil pump for the new 0w8. Cheeky move.
I'm leaning toward an off the shelf 0w-20 for cost & availability reasons. Seems like the switch to 0w-8 came as a mid year change with no hard part changes (that I can find).
Just crossed 65,000 miles on my 2020 Rav4h using only 0w-20 at 6-7k intervals.The oil doesn't even darken until after 5,000 miles.
4WD
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No - it’s just a 2nd water pump
This is a good question. On my Volt I just change my oil at 50% on OLM. Because that's what makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
On a Toyota hybrid that starts and stops the engine a whole lot more, pretty consistently per mile driven, I'd suspect mileage is still valid.
Call my crazy but if my vehicle called for 0W-8 I'd use 0W-16 just because I have no interest in paying a premium or taking the time to find the 0W-8 while 0W-16 is available for the same price as any other viscosity at any auto parts store pretty much anywhere.
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The operating temp viscosity difference between 8, 16, 20 is so much smaller than the difference between cold and warm. These discussions are silly.
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Prob different based on region.Yeah sure, that’s gotta be it.
Maybe it’s electric too
Just go with the 0w-20. Pick an OCI keeping in mind your original comment regarding your wife’s short trips during the winter.
A UOA by Wear Check or Oil Analyzers might be helpful in adjusting your OCI.
While being aware of the limitations of the Noack test, many 0w-16 had crazy-high Noack values and I expect with many 0w-8 we might see even higher Noack numbers. I am unsure that super high moly content, which is typical for many low-viscosity oils, is a "universal good" with no drawbacks.
I believe the viscosity and OCI need to be adjusted to the vehicle usage and while 0w8 and 0w-16 might be a reasonably good choice for a typical user, it is not necessarily the best choice for everyone.
The oil manufacturers are constantly improving the oils so I try not to be the early adopter with my cars. I decided to stay away from the 0w-16 the same way I stayed away from 0w-20 - until I was sure both the oil manufacturers and car manufacturers learned their lessons.
On the EU market the 2021 version of A25A-FXS had in the user manual "use 0W-16 only, you can use 0w-20 once ...", however for warranty purposes, viscosities 0w-16 to 5w-30 are accepted. Being a hybrid that sees a lot of city traffic including many short trips, and a lot of high-speed highway traffic we settled for 0w-20 and a reduced OCI. To be on the safe side I decided to use 0w-20 having approvals that demand above-average engine protection - my favorite approvals are MB229.71 or MB229.72. Unfortunately, there are no similar approvals for 0w-8 or 0w-16 that I would be aware of. With these "new" viscosities, you have to blindly trust the oil manufacturer and the selected product line.
Btw. Is there any SAE paper/presentation providing results of the Infeneum Camry Hybrid 2012 study? The study should have ended in 2016 and 0w-20 and 0w-16 were used. I managed to find only some brief interim results published in 2014/15 (message: engines after 100k look clean with 7.5K OCIs, fuel savings are measurable) and nothing more recent nor more detailed. In the previous study, the OCIs were short - around 3K and yet there was some varnish.
I believe the viscosity and OCI need to be adjusted to the vehicle usage and while 0w8 and 0w-16 might be a reasonably good choice for a typical user, it is not necessarily the best choice for everyone.
The oil manufacturers are constantly improving the oils so I try not to be the early adopter with my cars. I decided to stay away from the 0w-16 the same way I stayed away from 0w-20 - until I was sure both the oil manufacturers and car manufacturers learned their lessons.
On the EU market the 2021 version of A25A-FXS had in the user manual "use 0W-16 only, you can use 0w-20 once ...", however for warranty purposes, viscosities 0w-16 to 5w-30 are accepted. Being a hybrid that sees a lot of city traffic including many short trips, and a lot of high-speed highway traffic we settled for 0w-20 and a reduced OCI. To be on the safe side I decided to use 0w-20 having approvals that demand above-average engine protection - my favorite approvals are MB229.71 or MB229.72. Unfortunately, there are no similar approvals for 0w-8 or 0w-16 that I would be aware of. With these "new" viscosities, you have to blindly trust the oil manufacturer and the selected product line.
Btw. Is there any SAE paper/presentation providing results of the Infeneum Camry Hybrid 2012 study? The study should have ended in 2016 and 0w-20 and 0w-16 were used. I managed to find only some brief interim results published in 2014/15 (message: engines after 100k look clean with 7.5K OCIs, fuel savings are measurable) and nothing more recent nor more detailed. In the previous study, the OCIs were short - around 3K and yet there was some varnish.
In Australia the 2018 Toyota Camry Hybrid runs the 2.5 Litre A25A-FXS VVT-I engine.
This is what Toyota say you can use
Anything from 0W16 to 15W40 depending on environmental temperature.
Me? A name brand synthetic like M1 or Edge in 0W20 or 5W30 with API-SP and Dexos1-Gen3.
This is what Toyota say you can use
Anything from 0W16 to 15W40 depending on environmental temperature.
Me? A name brand synthetic like M1 or Edge in 0W20 or 5W30 with API-SP and Dexos1-Gen3.
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