Gas is garbage, most engine get enough junk in the CC and ring lands to cause increase cyl pressue and ping in short time. I never had a modern car that delivered full power on 87. Be happy the engine isnt retarding the timing or you would get even mORE carboned up. It may need a good thrashing - these engine are in near RACE tune these days and need full throttle for extended time in third and forth gears up to near redline to keep them (and the cats) clean. I see NOONE flooring their cars regularly these days except me.
Top Tier gas only, but the engine is PINGING !
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Originally Posted By: spasm3
It may even have a faulty knock sensor.
This.
ARCO:
While there may be one station with poor quality fuel in your area, all stations are not selling poor quality fuel.
Again if you are unsatisfied with the product you purchased why don't you contact that oil company HQ and complain, yet you don't?LOL
It may even have a faulty knock sensor.
This.
ARCO:
While there may be one station with poor quality fuel in your area, all stations are not selling poor quality fuel.
Again if you are unsatisfied with the product you purchased why don't you contact that oil company HQ and complain, yet you don't?LOL
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Knock sensors typ dont retard light ping. Again be happy the car isnt retarding the timing. Recently our Subaru pinged, the Suzuki 2.0 pinged at light throttle, light load, top gear. This is in my wifes cars that didnt get run hard (enough).
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AntiqueS: Id contact a regional oil co and make a subjective argument about fuel if it wasnt tantamount to hitting my head against a cement wall.
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AntiqueS: Id contact a regional oil co and make a subjective argument about fuel if it wasnt tantamount to hitting my head against a cement wall.
ARCO,
I agree fully with your opinions. Yes, the "Gamma" engine in this Accent is very highly tuned. 11:1 compression, VVT, Variable length intake manifold. Its 1.6L with 138 h.p. From an interstate roll, when you kick it down and the 6 speed auto chooses what gear it wants this thing really screams! You can feel the variable length intake kick in like a small nitrous shot!
I DO run the [censored] out of it to Redline quite often for the reasons you mentioned and also to show any weaknesses while its still under warranty. I don't mean abuse, but when the engine is fully up to operating temperature , then it is subject to a full throttle blast to redline at any time. I have a long, steep interstate hill that I can take from a stop at a red light, accellerate at WOT all the way up the entrance ramp and to the top of the hill (WOT 100%.) The car hits exactly 100 mph at the crest of the hill. I think it does good to help remove "stubborn" deposits.
So, I don't think grannying around is the issue. But like you said, it is a high strung engine, but the owner's manual says it will run on 87 fine. My belief is that there are some carbon deposits causing the ping, even though the Top Tier additives are supposed to prevent it.
87 octane, and 11:1 compression may be able to work with clever cam timing through the VVT, but it seems that it wouldn't take much carbon buildup to raise the compression ratio, and act as a glow plug. But the [censored] additives are supposed to prevent this!
Is gas really full of that much garbage these days? Hard substances that the detergent can't affect?
Someone mentioned a faulty knock sensor. But the car wasn't put into any extreme situation to be pinging in the first place. Or do manufacturers really lean on the timing and such to the point that they NEED an agressive knock sensor to keep things under control? Maybe the knock sensor IS the problem. I don't know. But the point is the engineers are being forced to get extreme in the gas mileage war because OPEC is being allowed to DESTROY OUR ECONOMY!
The ironic thing is that this car with its 6 speed auto, VVT, 11:1 compression, variable length intake manifold, low rolling resistance tires, low ride height, low front fascia, and low vehicle weight and a puny 1.6L displacement are all geared to maximize fuel efficiecy...
But, the [censored] thing only matches some of the regular old economy cars I've had from the past. I mean late 80's and early to mid 90's economy cars. [censored], I even had one OLD Honda that would beat it handily in a fuel economy contest. That Honda was 24 years older and with NONE of the "high tech" features I mentioned this Hyundai has.
And this Hyundai is supposed to be one of the TOP fuel economy cars available today.
what gives?
I agree fully with your opinions. Yes, the "Gamma" engine in this Accent is very highly tuned. 11:1 compression, VVT, Variable length intake manifold. Its 1.6L with 138 h.p. From an interstate roll, when you kick it down and the 6 speed auto chooses what gear it wants this thing really screams! You can feel the variable length intake kick in like a small nitrous shot!
I DO run the [censored] out of it to Redline quite often for the reasons you mentioned and also to show any weaknesses while its still under warranty. I don't mean abuse, but when the engine is fully up to operating temperature , then it is subject to a full throttle blast to redline at any time. I have a long, steep interstate hill that I can take from a stop at a red light, accellerate at WOT all the way up the entrance ramp and to the top of the hill (WOT 100%.) The car hits exactly 100 mph at the crest of the hill. I think it does good to help remove "stubborn" deposits.
So, I don't think grannying around is the issue. But like you said, it is a high strung engine, but the owner's manual says it will run on 87 fine. My belief is that there are some carbon deposits causing the ping, even though the Top Tier additives are supposed to prevent it.
87 octane, and 11:1 compression may be able to work with clever cam timing through the VVT, but it seems that it wouldn't take much carbon buildup to raise the compression ratio, and act as a glow plug. But the [censored] additives are supposed to prevent this!
Is gas really full of that much garbage these days? Hard substances that the detergent can't affect?
Someone mentioned a faulty knock sensor. But the car wasn't put into any extreme situation to be pinging in the first place. Or do manufacturers really lean on the timing and such to the point that they NEED an agressive knock sensor to keep things under control? Maybe the knock sensor IS the problem. I don't know. But the point is the engineers are being forced to get extreme in the gas mileage war because OPEC is being allowed to DESTROY OUR ECONOMY!
The ironic thing is that this car with its 6 speed auto, VVT, 11:1 compression, variable length intake manifold, low rolling resistance tires, low ride height, low front fascia, and low vehicle weight and a puny 1.6L displacement are all geared to maximize fuel efficiecy...
But, the [censored] thing only matches some of the regular old economy cars I've had from the past. I mean late 80's and early to mid 90's economy cars. [censored], I even had one OLD Honda that would beat it handily in a fuel economy contest. That Honda was 24 years older and with NONE of the "high tech" features I mentioned this Hyundai has.
And this Hyundai is supposed to be one of the TOP fuel economy cars available today.
what gives?
J mac check with the dealership. Isn't there a service required for the direct inject engine @ 15,000 miles?
i_mac,
Assuming your using Top Tier gas like you say you shouldn't need to give the gas any aditives. Your never mentioned what brand of gas your using but if it's a good grade your engine might need 89 instead of 87 octane.
Try filling up with another tank of 89 octane and take it out on the highway for a good spin. Perhaps if it is carbon then it might come loose during your drive.
Durango
Assuming your using Top Tier gas like you say you shouldn't need to give the gas any aditives. Your never mentioned what brand of gas your using but if it's a good grade your engine might need 89 instead of 87 octane.
Try filling up with another tank of 89 octane and take it out on the highway for a good spin. Perhaps if it is carbon then it might come loose during your drive.
Durango
Had the car out today for a long cruise on a hot day. It was pinging again with very light throttle. Pushed the gas down a little more and the ping stops. I'm wondering if, when I push the gas down a little more, then the engine mapping is different enough to stop the ping -or- does the ping get severe enough that the computer instantly jerks out the timing because the knock sensor picks up more serious ping?
I wonder if it is just the nature of the design that, in the name of maximum fuel economy, the engine is tuned to be right at the ragged edge of ping in order to squeeze the most out of every drop of fuel?
Or is it an unnatural buildup of carbon? I mean the thing didn't do it last summer in the heat when the car was new.
Or, god forbid, is it something related to the Direct Injection (new for 2012 on this car) that is causing the ping?
The notion that the car may "need" plus or premium fuel does not jive with me. Its supposed to run fine on 87. Granted, I bet it will quit pinging on 93, but that isn't the ideal solution, considering the whole reason I decided on this pip squeak is because I can't afford gasoline at today's prices.
I planned on keeping this car for 200-300k miles. At this rate I would say the engine will beat itself to death right after the famous Hyundai 100K warranty runs out!
I planned on the car with the lowest price/best fuel economy that I could take care of (regular oil changes and Top Tier gas only) but it seems I'm gonna be in for some surprizes.
I'm beginning to think "Top Tier" is a whole bunch of [censored]! Or do you guys think its all Direct Injection related?
I wonder if it is just the nature of the design that, in the name of maximum fuel economy, the engine is tuned to be right at the ragged edge of ping in order to squeeze the most out of every drop of fuel?
Or is it an unnatural buildup of carbon? I mean the thing didn't do it last summer in the heat when the car was new.
Or, god forbid, is it something related to the Direct Injection (new for 2012 on this car) that is causing the ping?
The notion that the car may "need" plus or premium fuel does not jive with me. Its supposed to run fine on 87. Granted, I bet it will quit pinging on 93, but that isn't the ideal solution, considering the whole reason I decided on this pip squeak is because I can't afford gasoline at today's prices.
I planned on keeping this car for 200-300k miles. At this rate I would say the engine will beat itself to death right after the famous Hyundai 100K warranty runs out!
I planned on the car with the lowest price/best fuel economy that I could take care of (regular oil changes and Top Tier gas only) but it seems I'm gonna be in for some surprizes.
I'm beginning to think "Top Tier" is a whole bunch of [censored]! Or do you guys think its all Direct Injection related?
Bamaro,
That's my point. It has 28,000 mi. on it. And it has STARTED pinging this summer in the heat. I bought it at the beginning of the summer last year in early June. It is an early 2012 model.
It didn't ping at all last summer. Now it is. The engine has an 11:1 compression ratio. In the old days an engine with that kind of compression would REQUIRE race fuel. Of course with variable valve timing and advanced combustion chambers and direct injection, that is how they're getting away with it today. The owner's manual states that the engine will run fine on 87.
I'm assuming that the thing is tuned to the ragged edge of ping for max fuel economy. And maybe just a little carbon crust in the combustion space would raise the compression even more and possibly provide a glow plug effect.
I have no other way to explain why it pings this summer and not at all last summer when it was new.
My point is that the Top Tier additives I've been sure that it has at EVERY fill-up are not doing their job as advertized!
And I will probably be replacing the engine sometime after the 100,000 mi. warranty expires.
That's my point. It has 28,000 mi. on it. And it has STARTED pinging this summer in the heat. I bought it at the beginning of the summer last year in early June. It is an early 2012 model.
It didn't ping at all last summer. Now it is. The engine has an 11:1 compression ratio. In the old days an engine with that kind of compression would REQUIRE race fuel. Of course with variable valve timing and advanced combustion chambers and direct injection, that is how they're getting away with it today. The owner's manual states that the engine will run fine on 87.
I'm assuming that the thing is tuned to the ragged edge of ping for max fuel economy. And maybe just a little carbon crust in the combustion space would raise the compression even more and possibly provide a glow plug effect.
I have no other way to explain why it pings this summer and not at all last summer when it was new.
My point is that the Top Tier additives I've been sure that it has at EVERY fill-up are not doing their job as advertized!
And I will probably be replacing the engine sometime after the 100,000 mi. warranty expires.
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Originally Posted By: j_mac
Bamaro,
My point is that the Top Tier additives I've been sure that it has at EVERY fill-up are not doing their job as advertized!
And I will probably be replacing the engine sometime after the 100,000 mi. warranty expires.
I knew there was an agenda coming here and I think we just got to the bottom of it.
Top Tier gasoline does a great job of cleaning what it comes into contact with, in the case of the DI engine you have the gasoline and the detergents within it do not come into contact with the same items it would in a traditional engine design, thus the detergents cannot clean what they don't come into contact with.
Again you have been told that you may have a faulty knock sensor, or it is possible that you have some carbon build up as well. But you won't know until you take the car into the dealer for warranty service. Get the car into the dealer and stop complaining.
Bamaro,
My point is that the Top Tier additives I've been sure that it has at EVERY fill-up are not doing their job as advertized!
And I will probably be replacing the engine sometime after the 100,000 mi. warranty expires.
I knew there was an agenda coming here and I think we just got to the bottom of it.
Top Tier gasoline does a great job of cleaning what it comes into contact with, in the case of the DI engine you have the gasoline and the detergents within it do not come into contact with the same items it would in a traditional engine design, thus the detergents cannot clean what they don't come into contact with.
Again you have been told that you may have a faulty knock sensor, or it is possible that you have some carbon build up as well. But you won't know until you take the car into the dealer for warranty service. Get the car into the dealer and stop complaining.
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: j_mac
Bamaro,
My point is that the Top Tier additives I've been sure that it has at EVERY fill-up are not doing their job as advertized!
And I will probably be replacing the engine sometime after the 100,000 mi. warranty expires.
...
Top Tier gasoline does a great job of cleaning what it comes into contact with, in the case of the DI engine you have the gasoline and the detergents within it do not come into contact with the same items it would in a traditional engine design, thus the detergents cannot clean what they don't come into contact with.
Again you have been told that you may have a faulty knock sensor, or it is possible that you have some carbon build up as well. But you won't know until you take the car into the dealer for warranty service. Get the car into the dealer and stop complaining.
This.
Originally Posted By: j_mac
Bamaro,
My point is that the Top Tier additives I've been sure that it has at EVERY fill-up are not doing their job as advertized!
And I will probably be replacing the engine sometime after the 100,000 mi. warranty expires.
...
Top Tier gasoline does a great job of cleaning what it comes into contact with, in the case of the DI engine you have the gasoline and the detergents within it do not come into contact with the same items it would in a traditional engine design, thus the detergents cannot clean what they don't come into contact with.
Again you have been told that you may have a faulty knock sensor, or it is possible that you have some carbon build up as well. But you won't know until you take the car into the dealer for warranty service. Get the car into the dealer and stop complaining.
This.
I don't subscribe to this notion that the knock sensor is CAUSING the engine to ping. The knock sensor's job is to DETECT ping. I've explained that the engine IS NOT being operated under heavy load. This engine SHOULD not be pinging at light throttle and medium load. Knock sensors do not induce ping.
Now, could someone offer some suggestions for what is CAUSING this engine to ping in the first place rather than berating?
Thank you to some of the earlier posters that understand the problem.
Now, could someone offer some suggestions for what is CAUSING this engine to ping in the first place rather than berating?
Thank you to some of the earlier posters that understand the problem.
Originally Posted By: whip
I'd wait until the warranty expires, and then replace the engine.
Yep, I think j mac will take your advice.
Notice how this poster j mac refuses to get the car to the dealer so that it can be looked at under warranty.
BTW a knock sensor should retard the timing ANYTIME it senses pinging, so if the sensor was working correctly you would not notice any pinging.
Stop complaining and get the car back to the dealer.
I'd wait until the warranty expires, and then replace the engine.
Yep, I think j mac will take your advice.
Notice how this poster j mac refuses to get the car to the dealer so that it can be looked at under warranty.
BTW a knock sensor should retard the timing ANYTIME it senses pinging, so if the sensor was working correctly you would not notice any pinging.
Stop complaining and get the car back to the dealer.
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I have a suggestion, since this is under warranty take it to the dealer to have it serviced.
Originally Posted By: j_mac
Had the car out today for a long cruise on a hot day. It was pinging again with very light throttle. Pushed the gas down a little more and the ping stops. I'm wondering if, when I push the gas down a little more, then the engine mapping is different enough to stop the ping -or- does the ping get severe enough that the computer instantly jerks out the timing because the knock sensor picks up more serious ping?
I wonder if it is just the nature of the design that, in the name of maximum fuel economy, the engine is tuned to be right at the ragged edge of ping in order to squeeze the most out of every drop of fuel?
Or is it an unnatural buildup of carbon? I mean the thing didn't do it last summer in the heat when the car was new.
Or, god forbid, is it something related to the Direct Injection (new for 2012 on this car) that is causing the ping?
The notion that the car may "need" plus or premium fuel does not jive with me. Its supposed to run fine on 87. Granted, I bet it will quit pinging on 93, but that isn't the ideal solution, considering the whole reason I decided on this pip squeak is because I can't afford gasoline at today's prices.
I planned on keeping this car for 200-300k miles. At this rate I would say the engine will beat itself to death right after the famous Hyundai 100K warranty runs out!
I planned on the car with the lowest price/best fuel economy that I could take care of (regular oil changes and Top Tier gas only) but it seems I'm gonna be in for some surprizes.
I'm beginning to think "Top Tier" is a whole bunch of [censored]! Or do you guys think its all Direct Injection related?
I think its 100% D.I. related, if you understand how DI engines work. You'll have inevitable carbon buildup that no fuel additive, or top tier fuel will touch. No Hyundai bashing great cars have owned several, just the nature of DI, my friends Audi's recommended treatment for the buildup from the dealer, was a teardown and media blast (crushed walnut shells I think) every 20-30k miles.
Had the car out today for a long cruise on a hot day. It was pinging again with very light throttle. Pushed the gas down a little more and the ping stops. I'm wondering if, when I push the gas down a little more, then the engine mapping is different enough to stop the ping -or- does the ping get severe enough that the computer instantly jerks out the timing because the knock sensor picks up more serious ping?
I wonder if it is just the nature of the design that, in the name of maximum fuel economy, the engine is tuned to be right at the ragged edge of ping in order to squeeze the most out of every drop of fuel?
Or is it an unnatural buildup of carbon? I mean the thing didn't do it last summer in the heat when the car was new.
Or, god forbid, is it something related to the Direct Injection (new for 2012 on this car) that is causing the ping?
The notion that the car may "need" plus or premium fuel does not jive with me. Its supposed to run fine on 87. Granted, I bet it will quit pinging on 93, but that isn't the ideal solution, considering the whole reason I decided on this pip squeak is because I can't afford gasoline at today's prices.
I planned on keeping this car for 200-300k miles. At this rate I would say the engine will beat itself to death right after the famous Hyundai 100K warranty runs out!
I planned on the car with the lowest price/best fuel economy that I could take care of (regular oil changes and Top Tier gas only) but it seems I'm gonna be in for some surprizes.
I'm beginning to think "Top Tier" is a whole bunch of [censored]! Or do you guys think its all Direct Injection related?
I think its 100% D.I. related, if you understand how DI engines work. You'll have inevitable carbon buildup that no fuel additive, or top tier fuel will touch. No Hyundai bashing great cars have owned several, just the nature of DI, my friends Audi's recommended treatment for the buildup from the dealer, was a teardown and media blast (crushed walnut shells I think) every 20-30k miles.
Does Audi really recommend tearing the engine down and mechanically removing the carbon crust? What model years does this cover? Have they finally figured out how to do the DI without this problem?
Am I in for some big surprises with this Hyundai? I guess its their guinea pig for DI.
Am I in for some big surprises with this Hyundai? I guess its their guinea pig for DI.
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