To answer your Q's about heavier oil in europe

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I find thicker oil runs hotter on the highway.
I have not used thick oil in a while, but when I did , and had oil temp gauges, 20-50 was 5- 10 C hotter than a 10-40 at sustained highway speeds.

I don't know why car mfrs. often recommend thicker oil for the same cars used not in the USA.
Sure, some of it is because of legalities brought on by CAFE.
Availability may be a real big reason - lighter oils are simply not widespread enough and available in Europe and elsewhere.
 
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Originally Posted By: mechtech2
I find thicker oil runs hotter on the highway.
I have not used thick oil in a while, but when I did , and had oil temp gauges, 20-50 was 5- 10 C hotter than a 10-40 at sustained highway speeds.

I don't know why car mfrs. often recommend thicker oil for the same cars used not in the USA.
Sure, some of it is legalities brought on by CAFE.


So you think the engines are exactly the same,just recommend different viscosities in the states? This makes the most sense anyway.(rather than building to different specs)
 
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Thick oil can cause increased oil temperatures if the flow through the engine is impeded (too viscous) leading to hindered heat dissipation. Also too thick of an oil for a certain engine can increase oil temperature from shearing.

There was a study that showed engine seals baked and cracked from using higher viscosity oils, leading to premature seal wear and leaks.

EFFECT ON FRICTION OF ENGINE OIL SEAL WITH ENGINE OIL
VISCOSITY
H. G. KIM* and S. I. JEON
 
In my travels I've not casually noticed any higher average speeds in Europe vs west coast USA. Even in Germany most people are not thrashing along much more than 75-80 mph, fuel costs too much to waste it with high speeds. No doubt in some poorer parts of the world, availability of quality oil and regular maintenance is a different story.
 
I seriously question the whole claim that Europeans treat their cars rougher than we do here. Show me a highway in Europe that matches the 3-way combination of ambient heat, speed, and duration of driving at speed compared to I10 from San Antonio to San Diego in the summer. Yes, the Autobahn is faster.... but its not as long and NOWHERE near as hot. 110F in the shade is normal in the desert southwest for much of the year.

A couple of times a year I do 8 hours straight with only fuel stops at a sustained 80 MPH on the stretch of I-10 west of San Antonio. The speed limit goes up to 80 just west of Kerrville and stays 80 all the way to El Paso. Where in Europe is a run like that even possible, let alone common? I've done it in my Jeep on RT6, my wife's PT on 0w30, my '66 Polara on 5w30, and in a Ram 1500 4.7 running 5w20.

Australians might demand more of their cars' lubricants than we do. Not Europeans, though.
 
Ha ha sorry to hijack but that is sooo true. There's a sign on IH 10 in Boerne that says 589 miles to El Paso
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and you can really run 85-87 before the cops get antsy. I've made that run from San Antonio many times. Thats farther than it is all the way across Germany! If that don't warm up the oil nothing will!
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Gotta love Texas
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Originally Posted By: cchase
I'm with Garak on this one. Fuel prices aren't what sets fuel economy these days... it's CAFE in this country. If an even 0.5% improvement in fuel economy by running a 20 weight oil can be achieved over a 50 weight and it can be proved demonstrably that the 20-weight provides an adequate level of protection, "they'd be stupid not to, right?".


And Canada is a fine counter-example to the "rest of the world" argument. Up here, we get vehicles that are more or less the same as what's available south of the border. We get told to use 5w-20. CAFE standards affect us by proxy, since there's no real reason to build a car to lower environmental/fuel economy standards for the Canadian market, even if the Canadian legislation allowed it.

It is, essentially, a North American market, not an American or Canadian market. The cars are built in both countries, and the U.S. is, by far, the larger of the two with respect to sales volumes, and we follow along for the ride for environmental regulations and fuel economy rules.

I know some agreement was recently signed between our two countries regarding harmonizing emissions regulations. In manufacturing practice, as far as I can tell, there's zero difference as it is. I'm sure it was a nice photo-op and feel good story, though.

As for 5w-20 though, I was skeptical at first. None of my engines call for it, so I never had to make the choice. I haven't seen anyone have problems with 5w-20, either.

My Audi calls for, basically, the heavier the better when it's warm enough outside. 5w-40 Delvac 1 works good year round.
 
i believe the engines are built pretty much the same (except for emmisions but i have seen more than once something stating in engines built for the us.
 
Not sure, but I believe it is dependent on how well the vehicle's cooling system is able to maintain operating temperature. Another guy on BITOG once posted oil temps on his F150 while towing through Arizona while ambient temps were around 108F. And he said his oil temp never went over 95C/203F. I do know these Fords with the tow package have heavy duty radiators and transmission coolers.
 
Originally Posted By: expat
How much effect does ambient temperature have on oil temp?


Some, but not a whole lot. By that I mean a 50F difference may produce a tick or two at a normalized temp. That's as good as a generic answer can be. Now at WOT across Death Valley in the summer versus Nebraska in winter? You can always create some exceptional scenario. You just keep upping the demands and reducing the norms to irrelevant.
 
Originally Posted By: expat
How much effect does ambient temperature have on oil temp?


A lot.
Coolant in the engine can be pretty stable, but the oil will certainly be hotter/cooler depending on ambient temps.
For a quick reality check, I note how oil from oil changes are WAY different in summer than winter.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1


Also tell me about towing a Lincoln with a Focus. When, what year, what oil, etc.


this year, it's a 2.0 focus wagon, 5w30 supertech dino
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Originally Posted By: expat
How much effect does ambient temperature have on oil temp?


A lot.
Coolant in the engine can be pretty stable, but the oil will certainly be hotter/cooler depending on ambient temps.
For a quick reality check, I note how oil from oil changes are WAY different in summer than winter.


I would not use that as a replacement for a temp probe.
 
I recently moved here from Lake Havasu City, Arizona. The driving there, as well as parts of Southern California, Nevada, Texas and others, is relatively fast (80-85mph) and for extended durations in very hot temperatures. I used to have a commute of over 100 miles round trip per day, and we also would tow our boat in that kind of heat. Without a doubt, some very tough conditions.

What I have noticed in Germany over the past 4 months is that the driving is a bit different. There are many two-lane roads going here and there with the speed limit generally being 100kmh when out of town and 50kmh while passing through the many small villages. What happens though, is that you will get tractors and transport trucks going along the road at slower speeds which most people will pass. That passing tends to mean, at least for me, a downshift and a charge to the redline. Not a huge deal, but it happens several times usually on a commute.

On the Autobahn, it’s a different type of animal. The ‘recommended’ speed is 130kmh. There are some places where an actual speed limit will be posted and enforced, but the rest of it is at one’s discretion. There are those that cruse along in Skodas, Fiats, and sometimes faster cars at 75 or 80. I mean, gas is about $9 gallon here. However, there are always people blowing by at speeds much higher. As in speeds that literally make you feel as if you are parked on the side of the road. I generally cruise along at around 150-160kmh or 95-100mph, and I always get blown away by Audis, Mercedes, and others when the traffic permits. Another thing that I notice with Autobahn driving, is that when one does want to really get going fast, it is common to have to hit the brakes to scrub off a lot of speed when someone in front decides to get in the left lane for the pass. It is a speed swing, up and down rather than just cruising like we frequently do in the States. Other than that, it seems that frequently, and this is just an observation or opinion, that the slower cars are also close to their respective limits.

In Germany, the government taxes based upon the engine’s output. It was mentioned about the differences in the way people tow, and nothing could be truer. It is kind of funny at first to see someone towing horses or a camper with an Opel or an Audi, but you get used to it as it is just how things are done over here. There are a lot of cars with smaller engines than you see in the US driving these roads. Many are below 2 liters in displacement. I guess there are a lot of differences that I’ve noticed, so it does not seem unreasonable to see that they spec different weight oils.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I would not use that as a replacement for a temp probe.


I agree. The temperature differences between different viscosities are about as significant as temperature difference due to varying ambient temperatures, if not more so.

Further, hard driving will make a much greater difference than any ambient temperatures. I've changed oil many times in taxis with the ambient temperature over 110 F. The cabs have been running all day with the air conditioner running, city driving. I'm notoriously messy when I change oil, and always spill on my hands. I've never burned them yet. It might be uncomfortably warm, but no more than that.

It would be a different kettle of fish if I tried that in my Audi immediately after a sustained 140 km/h drive. Then, the oil temperature gauge rises significantly, regardless of ambient temperature.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Most of our highway speeds are what Europe considers minimum for their highways. According to my retired uncle, you had better be doing 85mph by the time you enter the roadway. Meanwhile, hocky-poky in USA is below 40-45mph for limited access.


Europe is not made uo of Germany only.Stating the name of the country is better.Your retired uncle must be talking about Germany, not Bulgaria or Portugal or Sweden or Italy.
 
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