Originally Posted By: Chris142
Engine tolerances have not changed in 80 years.
Your statement might be off a bit.
Engine tolerances have not changed in 80 years.
Your statement might be off a bit.
"Tight Engines" need 0W-20 he claims
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We have a 13 Corolla. I bet you could run cheap 20w50 in it and it would still run 200k or more without any issues. That said, Toyota says 0w20. That's what I run at 10k interval. I wouldn't be worried about 5w20 or 30 honestly if I got it on sale. Ours has almost 70k miles so the warranty is over.
0w20, 5w20 will be fine...you can run 5w30 too. You'll never know the difference.
I have an 07...and I've used the following with no ill effects: 5w50 (when first got car they put this in..dont ask why).. 5w30..5w20 0w20..all worked great. I plan to use 0w30 and 0w40 also...your corolla has the same 1.8 engine..use what you want. I doubt you even need to use 0w30 over a 20 weight. I have run 0w20 with a loaded car over 850lbs inside ppl and cargo and drove 75mph with no issues..but no reason to not use 30 weight for piece of mind.
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
What prevents Russian engines from running different compression due to their own laws, costs, fuel quality, etc?
(With heavy Russian accent):
All domestic Russian cars require xW40 oils. Add here same requirements for Europenian cars and no CAFE pressure. Almost everybody cares about long engine life, but not about few grams per 100 km. Even xW30 oils are not too pupular, so xW20 are unofficially called "donkey's urine".
At least Camries are certified to use 0W20, 5W30, 5W40, 15W40 and 20W50. Yes, engines are same to what we see in US.
What prevents Russian engines from running different compression due to their own laws, costs, fuel quality, etc?
(With heavy Russian accent):
All domestic Russian cars require xW40 oils. Add here same requirements for Europenian cars and no CAFE pressure. Almost everybody cares about long engine life, but not about few grams per 100 km. Even xW30 oils are not too pupular, so xW20 are unofficially called "donkey's urine".
At least Camries are certified to use 0W20, 5W30, 5W40, 15W40 and 20W50. Yes, engines are same to what we see in US.
Originally Posted By: redbone3
Back in the '50s my dad had a Mobil gas station. One of the most popular oils was 20 weight. I think they called it "Trop Arctic." The implication was that it was good in any climate. A great many cars used that oil with no ill effects, and I doubt the clearances were any tighter than on a modern automobile.
TropArtic (yes thats the way its spelled) was always a Phillips66 product. That and Amalie were the first 10w-30's in the early 50's. It may have come in a 20w-20 later on in the 60's, which might be what you are remembering. Its possible a Mobil station sold Phillips66 oil, as I don't know what the rules were about that. My grandfather owned a Mobil station in the 50s and 60s and I don't remember his inventory freedom to carry non-Mobil brands.
This entire discussion is centered on "clearances" when the real issue is load-bearing capacity of thinner oils for a given bearing area to spread the load over. In other words, bearing pressure causes thinner oil to create metal-to-metal more than thicker oil, plain and simple. You really need to be talking about how wide the journal bearings are. Presumably the engineers have worked this out and have said 20 is adequate for oil film thickness on specific engines. Almost any engine CAN use thicker oil, at the cost of less fuel economy though.
Back in the '50s my dad had a Mobil gas station. One of the most popular oils was 20 weight. I think they called it "Trop Arctic." The implication was that it was good in any climate. A great many cars used that oil with no ill effects, and I doubt the clearances were any tighter than on a modern automobile.
TropArtic (yes thats the way its spelled) was always a Phillips66 product. That and Amalie were the first 10w-30's in the early 50's. It may have come in a 20w-20 later on in the 60's, which might be what you are remembering. Its possible a Mobil station sold Phillips66 oil, as I don't know what the rules were about that. My grandfather owned a Mobil station in the 50s and 60s and I don't remember his inventory freedom to carry non-Mobil brands.
This entire discussion is centered on "clearances" when the real issue is load-bearing capacity of thinner oils for a given bearing area to spread the load over. In other words, bearing pressure causes thinner oil to create metal-to-metal more than thicker oil, plain and simple. You really need to be talking about how wide the journal bearings are. Presumably the engineers have worked this out and have said 20 is adequate for oil film thickness on specific engines. Almost any engine CAN use thicker oil, at the cost of less fuel economy though.
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
I have an 07...and I've used the following with no ill effects: 5w50 (when first got car they put this in..dont ask why).. 5w30..5w20 0w20..all worked great. I plan to use 0w30 and 0w40 also...your corolla has the same 1.8 engine..use what you want. I doubt you even need to use 0w30 over a 20 weight. I have run 0w20 with a loaded car over 850lbs inside ppl and cargo and drove 75mph with no issues..but no reason to not use 30 weight for piece of mind.
for sharing your experience .
I have an 07...and I've used the following with no ill effects: 5w50 (when first got car they put this in..dont ask why).. 5w30..5w20 0w20..all worked great. I plan to use 0w30 and 0w40 also...your corolla has the same 1.8 engine..use what you want. I doubt you even need to use 0w30 over a 20 weight. I have run 0w20 with a loaded car over 850lbs inside ppl and cargo and drove 75mph with no issues..but no reason to not use 30 weight for piece of mind.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Engine tolerances have not changed in 80 years.
Your statement might be off a bit.
You can go through the material I posted here...
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...ers#Post2510026
See if there's a material difference...
If you've ever pulled apart a GM V-8, or a Rols Royce, you can see that back in the day, acknowledging that manufacturing tolerances weren't the best, the ASSEMBLY clearances and the tolerances associated were maintained at very tight levels.
You could get mains and big ends in over and under 0.0005" increments, 0.001", 0.002" ... pistons were in 0.001" overs and unders.
Engine would have each journal and cylinder measured, and the correct items chosen for each location to maintain the clearances, and the tolerances attached to those clearances...the clearances where the oil goes.
What HAS changes are the manufacturing tolerances that mean that the requirement for select fit have long gone (but you still get a dog at the extreme ends of the bell curve sneaking through).
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Engine tolerances have not changed in 80 years.
Your statement might be off a bit.
You can go through the material I posted here...
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...ers#Post2510026
See if there's a material difference...
If you've ever pulled apart a GM V-8, or a Rols Royce, you can see that back in the day, acknowledging that manufacturing tolerances weren't the best, the ASSEMBLY clearances and the tolerances associated were maintained at very tight levels.
You could get mains and big ends in over and under 0.0005" increments, 0.001", 0.002" ... pistons were in 0.001" overs and unders.
Engine would have each journal and cylinder measured, and the correct items chosen for each location to maintain the clearances, and the tolerances attached to those clearances...the clearances where the oil goes.
What HAS changes are the manufacturing tolerances that mean that the requirement for select fit have long gone (but you still get a dog at the extreme ends of the bell curve sneaking through).
Originally Posted By: timeau
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
What prevents Russian engines from running different compression due to their own laws, costs, fuel quality, etc?
(With heavy Russian accent):
All domestic Russian cars require xW40 oils. Add here same requirements for Europenian cars and no CAFE pressure. Almost everybody cares about long engine life, but not about few grams per 100 km. Even xW30 oils are not too pupular, so xW20 are unofficially called "donkey's urine".
At least Camries are certified to use 0W20, 5W30, 5W40, 15W40 and 20W50. Yes, engines are same to what we see in US.
Da, Russky engine run on VODKA and lubricate by BEAR DROPPING or BORSCHT depend upon locale! Gears use CAVIAR or POTATO SOUP!!!
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
What prevents Russian engines from running different compression due to their own laws, costs, fuel quality, etc?
(With heavy Russian accent):
All domestic Russian cars require xW40 oils. Add here same requirements for Europenian cars and no CAFE pressure. Almost everybody cares about long engine life, but not about few grams per 100 km. Even xW30 oils are not too pupular, so xW20 are unofficially called "donkey's urine".
At least Camries are certified to use 0W20, 5W30, 5W40, 15W40 and 20W50. Yes, engines are same to what we see in US.
Da, Russky engine run on VODKA and lubricate by BEAR DROPPING or BORSCHT depend upon locale! Gears use CAVIAR or POTATO SOUP!!!
Originally Posted By: redbone3
Back in the '50s my dad had a Mobil gas station. One of the most popular oils was 20 weight. I think they called it "Trop Arctic." The implication was that it was good in any climate. A great many cars used that oil with no ill effects, and I doubt the clearances were any tighter than on a modern automobile.
Correct, but those engines ran 160 to 180* thermostats max, so in use were thicker than todays oil...
Back in the '50s my dad had a Mobil gas station. One of the most popular oils was 20 weight. I think they called it "Trop Arctic." The implication was that it was good in any climate. A great many cars used that oil with no ill effects, and I doubt the clearances were any tighter than on a modern automobile.
Correct, but those engines ran 160 to 180* thermostats max, so in use were thicker than todays oil...
This will sound strange but that last instance of "selecting for match from a batch" that I am aware of (I'm sure there are many others) was on the build sheet for my Rainier. They hand matched the springs. What? I figure the union shop steward's son had that job. But I agree with you, six sigma and all its descendants have produced more repeatability than ever. Our gift from managements' fear of the Japanese in the 80's.
I used M1 5-20 in 1978 in a Dodge engine calling for 10-40 when CAFE was not an issue. My engine ran smoother, started easier in Maine winters, never showed any sign of wear, and stayed very clean, all at 10K OCIs. For several years now I have used M1 0-20AFE at 10K OCIs and I still receive the same benefits as I did 37 years ago. I use 0-20 for the benefits, not CAFE.
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: SumpChump
I showed him the Russian manual online that shows eve a 40 weight!
Do you know for a fact that the Russian engines are identical to the US ones?
Why would Russian engines be any different? DO they have a "special" assembly line in Japan for "Russian" engines? That would raise the per unit price.
That's exactly my point. Do we have any more information other than speculation?
These cars are built in many factories around the world depending on destination market.
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: SumpChump
I showed him the Russian manual online that shows eve a 40 weight!
Do you know for a fact that the Russian engines are identical to the US ones?
Why would Russian engines be any different? DO they have a "special" assembly line in Japan for "Russian" engines? That would raise the per unit price.
That's exactly my point. Do we have any more information other than speculation?
These cars are built in many factories around the world depending on destination market.
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
That's exactly my point. Do we have any more information other than speculation?
These cars are built in many factories around the world depending on destination market.
Link I posted was to exactly that question some time ago...it's ACL bearing manuual, and you can see what the clearances were, and how they've (not really) changed in the history of engine families.
New families coming online like the BMW which runs 0W20 are differently designed from their predescessors, but global engines are pretty stock across the globe, whether they are 0W20 in the states, or 5W40 in Oz.
"facts" didn't win anyone over last time, and I'm pretty sure it won't this time either.
edit...and claiming that they are somehow different in the US ISN'T speculation ?
That's exactly my point. Do we have any more information other than speculation?
These cars are built in many factories around the world depending on destination market.
Link I posted was to exactly that question some time ago...it's ACL bearing manuual, and you can see what the clearances were, and how they've (not really) changed in the history of engine families.
New families coming online like the BMW which runs 0W20 are differently designed from their predescessors, but global engines are pretty stock across the globe, whether they are 0W20 in the states, or 5W40 in Oz.
"facts" didn't win anyone over last time, and I'm pretty sure it won't this time either.
edit...and claiming that they are somehow different in the US ISN'T speculation ?
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: cat843
Well you each should pull the oil pan, then a main bearing cap and put in some plastigauge, torque it down, then remove the plastigauge and see which engine is tighter.
that would end a lot of the controversy
how about look up the clearances in a shop manual.
Originally Posted By: cat843
Well you each should pull the oil pan, then a main bearing cap and put in some plastigauge, torque it down, then remove the plastigauge and see which engine is tighter.
that would end a lot of the controversy
how about look up the clearances in a shop manual.
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: cat843
Well you each should pull the oil pan, then a main bearing cap and put in some plastigauge, torque it down, then remove the plastigauge and see which engine is tighter.
that would end a lot of the controversy
how about look up the clearances in a shop manual.
http://www.acl.com.au/web/aclwebsite.nsf...cb?OpenDocument
or the ACL book
Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: cat843
Well you each should pull the oil pan, then a main bearing cap and put in some plastigauge, torque it down, then remove the plastigauge and see which engine is tighter.
that would end a lot of the controversy
how about look up the clearances in a shop manual.
http://www.acl.com.au/web/aclwebsite.nsf...cb?OpenDocument
or the ACL book
Originally Posted By: SumpChump
At work this weekend my colleague and I got arguing over our Corollas. He has a 2005-2007 if I recall. He runs and it calls for 5W-30.
Mine is a '13 and calls for 0W-20. I was mentioning that next summer I'd be doing some long highway trips for work and that I was going to run a 0W-30 or even 5W-30. He started arguing and said that my newer engine was made "tighter" and needs the 20 weight. LOL
I showed him the Russian manual online that shows eve a 40 weight! He claims it was a motor made to lower tolerances even though same 1.8L design.
Ugh!!!
You can run any weight (0W-20 to 20W-50) oil in a Corolla engine without any problem. In fact, that's what some foreign owners' manuals show (the entire range between 0W-20 - 20W-50).
Toyota doesn't carry any synthetic oil other than TGMO 0W-20 SN. Therefore, if synthetic is required by Toyota, they are bound to recommend 0W-20 as well, as they don't have any other synthetic viscosity grade. So, it's not really that 0W-20 is required but synthetic is required.
At work this weekend my colleague and I got arguing over our Corollas. He has a 2005-2007 if I recall. He runs and it calls for 5W-30.
Mine is a '13 and calls for 0W-20. I was mentioning that next summer I'd be doing some long highway trips for work and that I was going to run a 0W-30 or even 5W-30. He started arguing and said that my newer engine was made "tighter" and needs the 20 weight. LOL
I showed him the Russian manual online that shows eve a 40 weight! He claims it was a motor made to lower tolerances even though same 1.8L design.
Ugh!!!
You can run any weight (0W-20 to 20W-50) oil in a Corolla engine without any problem. In fact, that's what some foreign owners' manuals show (the entire range between 0W-20 - 20W-50).
Toyota doesn't carry any synthetic oil other than TGMO 0W-20 SN. Therefore, if synthetic is required by Toyota, they are bound to recommend 0W-20 as well, as they don't have any other synthetic viscosity grade. So, it's not really that 0W-20 is required but synthetic is required.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
That's exactly my point. Do we have any more information other than speculation?
These cars are built in many factories around the world depending on destination market.
Link I posted was to exactly that question some time ago...it's ACL bearing manuual, and you can see what the clearances were, and how they've (not really) changed in the history of engine families.
New families coming online like the BMW which runs 0W20 are differently designed from their predescessors, but global engines are pretty stock across the globe, whether they are 0W20 in the states, or 5W40 in Oz.
"facts" didn't win anyone over last time, and I'm pretty sure it won't this time either.
edit...and claiming that they are somehow different in the US ISN'T speculation ?
Thanks.
Not saying it's not speculation.
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
That's exactly my point. Do we have any more information other than speculation?
These cars are built in many factories around the world depending on destination market.
Link I posted was to exactly that question some time ago...it's ACL bearing manuual, and you can see what the clearances were, and how they've (not really) changed in the history of engine families.
New families coming online like the BMW which runs 0W20 are differently designed from their predescessors, but global engines are pretty stock across the globe, whether they are 0W20 in the states, or 5W40 in Oz.
"facts" didn't win anyone over last time, and I'm pretty sure it won't this time either.
edit...and claiming that they are somehow different in the US ISN'T speculation ?
Thanks.
Not saying it's not speculation.
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