Three 0W-20 VOAs - Mobil 1 ESP X2, Motul Specific 508, and Ravenol VSE

[rstcso]

On a quest to find "the best" oil for my Audi 2.0L engine with 36,000 miles, I've sent multiple virgin oil samples to Speediagnostix for analysis. The car was purchased new with regular oil changes at the dealer. The only UOA sample sent was when I jumped down this rabbit hole head first and started sending all these VOAs. Now it's almost become a hobby.

The first oil I sent was the Ravenol. Thinking it would be my new "forever" oil, and before getting the results, I changed to it. When the results came back, Lake Speed Jr said "PS - Is your engine turbocharged direct injection? If so, the Calcium and Sodium levels in this oil are not ideal for a turbo DI engine." My engine is both DI and turbocharged, so I wanted to get it out quickly and decided to go with the Motul. The VOA looks good, but since I won't go over 5,000 miles OCI, I thought maybe the Mobil 1 ESP X2 would be more than sufficient. The cost is almost 1/3 of the Motul and available at my local Walmart.

Then the GM 6.2L recall hit and I started doing some research. Turns out, in every country besides the US, this engine's oil spec is 5W40. Now I'm in a new rabbit hole looking for "the best" higher viscosity oil. Probably going with the Amsoil European 0W30 for now. Much higher HTHS.

I hope someone finds these VOAs useful. Thank you.

 

[Slick3914]

Mobil 1 looks to be the easy choice here.

 

[shortyb]

When I started to read your post, I was thinking , hmmm "the best" oil for a Euro turbo/DI 2.0 is not a 0W-20 IMHO. Then I got through it and found you have seen the light. Welcome to the "thickie" side .

Mobil 1 makes a VW511.00 ESP X4 0W-40 thats commonly available by the way .

 

[rstcso]

Mobil 1 looks to be the easy choice here.

Last night I asked Lake about switching to a higher viscosity and going with Amsoil. This was his reply:

Since the Mobil 1 ESP is available in several viscosities, I would start with the Mobil 1 ESP 0W-20, then go with the 0W-30. If the used oil analysis data is better with the 0W30 than the 0W-20, go with the 0W-40. Just let the data and not your heart guide you.

 

[rstcso]

After receiving the results of the Ravenol VOA, I sent a message to Ravenol asking about the relatively high levels of calcium and sodium. This morning I received this response from their Export Manager:

You don’t need to worry – RAVENOL VSE SAE 0W-20 has been officially tested and approved by Volkswagen.
It has passed all required OEM testing procedures, including LSPI resistance, wear protection, and long-drain performance, and therefore holds the official VW 508 00 / 509 00 approval.
This means the oil is certified for use in your engine and can be used with full confidence in terms of performance, safety, and long-term reliability.

So who should I, or would you, believe? The export manager from a company marketing a product? Or Lake Speed Jr, a certified tribologist with years of experience testing and formulating engine oils with no skin in the game on what oil I buy? Hmmm.

 

[buster]

Of the bunch I like the M1 0w20. Pretty stout looking oil (moly/boron/zdp levels and ester). I'd opt for a 5w30 most likely in that engine though.

 

[buster]

After receiving the results of the Ravenol VOA, I sent a message to Ravenol asking about the relatively high levels of calcium and sodium. This morning I received this response from their Export Manager:



So who should I, or would you, believe? The export manager from a company marketing a product? Or Lake Speed Jr, a certified tribologist with years of experience testing and formulating engine oils with no skin in the game on what oil I buy? Hmmm.

ROC site doesn't seem to like Ravenol much FWIW. There seems to be some skepticism with that brand. Looks good on paper but nothing stands out to me about it when in service. I'd pass.

 

[kschachn]

So after all that, which one is better based on those spectrographic analyses?

 

[Patman]

So after all that, which one is better based on those spectrographic analyses?

The one that’s on sale

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Last night I asked Lake about switching to a higher viscosity and going with Amsoil. This was his reply:

Since the Mobil 1 ESP is available in several viscosities, I would start with the Mobil 1 ESP 0W-20, then go with the 0W-30. If the used oil analysis data is better with the 0W30 than the 0W-20, go with the 0W-40. Just let the data and not your heart guide you.

Well, since you’re paying this guy beaucoup money, did he explain to you how to determine “if the used oil analysis data is better”, since the testing that you’re paying him to perform does not have the capability to identify which oil protects your engine better?

Take his advice in this point alone; let the data and not your heart guide you, which is how you came to believe that a YT master clickbaiter can read the tea leaves in a way that will protect your engine better.

The data from a UOA (especially when viewed as a single point of data) tells you about the condition of the oil itself, not how the oil protects your engine.

 

[shortyb]

So who should I, or would you, believe? The export manager from a company marketing a product? Or Lake Speed Jr, a certified tribologist with years of experience testing and formulating engine oils with no skin in the game on what oil I buy? Hmmm.

Me? Neither.

 

[rstcso]

My Audi Q5 was part of the rod bearing recall, which was discussed here. There are similarities between this recall and the GM recall. Of course, the dealer's test of driving it hard and looking for metal in the filter was negative, but I still have concerns about the engine's longevity, therefore I believe going from the 0W20, which has HTHS of 2.7, up to viscosity of 0W30 with HTHS of 3.5 might help the engine live longer... I hope. At this point, I'm willing to take this baby step instead of going full-bore 5W40.

Time will tell.

 

[kschachn]

My Audi Q5 was part of the rod bearing recall, which was discussed here. There are similarities between this recall and the GM recall. Of course, the dealer's test of driving it hard and looking for metal in the filter was negative, but I still have concerns about the engine's longevity, therefore I believe going from the 0W20, which has HTHS of 2.7, up to viscosity of 0W30 with HTHS of 3.5 might help the engine live longer... I hope. At this point, I'm willing to take this baby step instead of going full-bore 5W40.

That isn't going to be much of an HT/HS increase.

 

[rstcso]

Well, since you’re paying this guy beaucoup money, did he explain to you how to determine “if the used oil analysis data is better”, since the testing that you’re paying him to perform does not have the capability to identify which oil protects your engine better?

Take his advice in this point alone; let the data and not your heart guide you, which is how you came to believe that a YT master clickbaiter can read the tea leaves in a way that will protect your engine better.

The data from a UOA (especially when viewed as a single point of data) tells you about the condition of the oil itself, not how the oil protects your engine.

You know what they say about a fool and his money!

Had I not sent in the Ravenol for a VOA, I'd never had known its propensity for potential LSPI. After all, it has the VW508 approval. Then again, I'd be blissfully ignorant and not spending hours "researching", confusing the situation even more, and posting nonsensical drivel on an internet forum. The samples sent after the Ravenol was to make sure the oil was appropriate for my engine and also didn't have high levels of calcium. Having a baseline is the only way future UOAs would be useful, agreeing multiple data points are necessary (my day job is data analytics).

Here is Lake's suggestion to me in an email:

The Mobil 1 ESP is a PAO/Ester based oil. We see good results from that oil as well. I will say that virgin oil analysis does not predict actual engine performance. Motul may not look impressive on paper, but it tends to work well in actual engines.

You could use both Motul and Mobil 1 for three oil changes each to see which one works the best.

I'm too old and impatient to go through six or more OCIs, so hoping to find the magic bullet. But we all know there isn't one.

 

[kschachn]

Had I not sent in the Ravenol for a VOA, I'd never had known its propensity for potential LSPI. After all, it has the VW508 approval. Then again, I'd be blissfully ignorant and not spending hours "researching", confusing the situation even more, and posting nonsensical drivel on an internet forum. The samples sent after the Ravenol was to make sure the oil was appropriate for my engine and also didn't have high levels of calcium. Having a baseline is the only way future UOAs would be useful, agreeing multiple data points are necessary (my day job is data analytics).

LSPI propensity is more than isolated elements on a cheap spectrographic analysis.

 

[rstcso]

That isn't going to be much of an HT/HS increase.

That's about 30 percent. Would you suggest just going for it, especially knowing the rest of the world is using 5W40 in this engine?

 

[kschachn]

That's about 30 percent. Would you suggest just going for it, especially knowing the rest of the world is using 5W40 in this engine?

I wouldn't use an oil without an appropriate approval. 502 00, sure.

 

[rstcso]

LSPI propensity is more than isolated elements on a cheap spectrographic analysis.

No truer words... Maybe I need to find more expensive testing.

Thank you.

 

[kschachn]

That's about 30 percent. Would you suggest just going for it, especially knowing the rest of the world is using 5W40 in this engine?

The -40 grade you're talking about has an HT/HS above 4.5? Is this Red Line?

 

[rstcso]

The -40 grade you're talking about has an HT/HS above 4.5? Is this Red Line?

My bad. I should have been more clear. I was comparing the -20 to -30.