Thoughts and opinions on family haulers

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by grampi


If there's any truth to this, and I doubt there is, the Toyotas and Hondas are still better vehicles than the Chryslers...


And I don't think the Honda and Toyota minivans are good enough to command the price premium they do. Especially after sitting in a 2016 Sienna and then comparing it to even a 2018 Grand Caravan. But people love that kool-aid.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by grampi


If there's any truth to this, and I doubt there is, the Toyotas and Hondas are still better vehicles than the Chryslers...


And I don't think the Honda and Toyota minivans are good enough to command the price premium they do. Especially after sitting in a 2016 Sienna and then comparing it to even a 2018 Grand Caravan. But people love that kool-aid.


We had a Sienna as a rental, the review of which I posted on here. To say that I was underwhelmed is a gross understatement, it was a steaming pile, but it's a Toyota, so it had to be awesome, apparently I was just oblivious to whatever it was that made it so

 

[oilstudent24]

Used Toyota Sienna FWD 12-16. Those years had the proven 6 speed transmission. MPG is probably a little better than the Dodge. Insurance was cheaper as well. Made for lower ownership cost. Have well over 100,000 miles with no breakdowns and routine maintenance. I'm not sure how reliable the new 8 speed transmission is yet.

 

[oilstudent24]

The 12-16 siennas have a 10,000 mile interval with the V6. Test drove Honda and dodge as well. Honda drove the best but had cylinder deactivation. The rear seats in the dodge were less comfortable, but Dodge seems slightly more powerful. The Toyota seats will slide fore and aft giving lots of room. I think Honda seats do this as well. Dodge middle row seats didn't move if my memory serves me correctly. Dodge did have stow and go seating though.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted by oilstudent24
The 12-16 siennas have a 10,000 mile interval with the V6. Test drove Honda and dodge as well. Honda drove the best but had cylinder deactivation. The rear seats in the dodge were less comfortable, but Dodge seems slightly more powerful. The Toyota seats will slide fore and aft giving lots of room. I think Honda seats do this as well. Dodge middle row seats didn't move if my memory serves me correctly. Dodge did have stow and go seating though.


The middle stow and go seats on my 15 grand caravan do move back and forth. But due to stow and go, they are less comfortable for adults than Sienna and Odyssey. I sat in them few times for about 30 minutes each trip and they are not as bad as many make them out to be. But for longer trips with adults, I can see them being more tiring on a person.

In the end, all minivans have their positives and negatives, but one thing is for sure, they all have superior interior management for carrying people and their stuff. SUVs are heavily compromised in this regard. So not matter which brand one chooses, they will serve extremely well in this regard.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted by oilstudent24
Used Toyota Sienna FWD 12-16. Those years had the proven 6 speed transmission. MPG is probably a little better than the Dodge. Insurance was cheaper as well. Made for lower ownership cost. Have well over 100,000 miles with no breakdowns and routine maintenance. I'm not sure how reliable the new 8 speed transmission is yet.

My GFs dad has a 2012 Sienna AWD. Has 130k. Still uses the factory run flats which has saved him more than once.

The good:
Its fast. Shifts great. Handles good. Decent on gas

The bad:
Water pump failed at 102k. I couldn't, didnt want to fix it. Hard to work on. Tight awkward engine compartment. Required engine movement or engine removal to get water pump out. And rust. Wow is that van rusty underneath the body and in the engine compartment. I took pics of rotors during brake job last year. The rotors were welded on. Nuts, bolts, everything getting crispy. Shocking how fast that van is rusting underneath.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by grampi


If there's any truth to this, and I doubt there is, the Toyotas and Hondas are still better vehicles than the Chryslers...


And I don't think the Honda and Toyota minivans are good enough to command the price premium they do. Especially after sitting in a 2016 Sienna and then comparing it to even a 2018 Grand Caravan. But people love that kool-aid.


I don't know about the Honda's pricing, but a used Sienna can be had very reasonably. The Caravans are too small for my liking...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by grampi


If there's any truth to this, and I doubt there is, the Toyotas and Hondas are still better vehicles than the Chryslers...


And I don't think the Honda and Toyota minivans are good enough to command the price premium they do. Especially after sitting in a 2016 Sienna and then comparing it to even a 2018 Grand Caravan. But people love that kool-aid.


We had a Sienna as a rental, the review of which I posted on here. To say that I was underwhelmed is a gross understatement, it was a steaming pile, but it's a Toyota, so it had to be awesome, apparently I was just oblivious to whatever it was that made it so

Check back when the Chrysler's tranny goes out at 100K and we'll see which one is the steaming pile...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by LeakySeals
Originally Posted by oilstudent24
Used Toyota Sienna FWD 12-16. Those years had the proven 6 speed transmission. MPG is probably a little better than the Dodge. Insurance was cheaper as well. Made for lower ownership cost. Have well over 100,000 miles with no breakdowns and routine maintenance. I'm not sure how reliable the new 8 speed transmission is yet.

My GFs dad has a 2012 Sienna AWD. Has 130k. Still uses the factory run flats which has saved him more than once.

The good:
Its fast. Shifts great. Handles good. Decent on gas

The bad:
Water pump failed at 102k. I couldn't, didnt want to fix it. Hard to work on. Tight awkward engine compartment. Required engine movement or engine removal to get water pump out. And rust. Wow is that van rusty underneath the body and in the engine compartment. I took pics of rotors during brake job last year. The rotors were welded on. Nuts, bolts, everything getting crispy. Shocking how fast that van is rusting underneath.


The rust is a product of road salt. All vehicles rust when driven in it...

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted by A_Spruce
Are dual sliding doors standard equipment these days on MVs? With a family of 6 to load in and out, having a door on both sides would be a big plus in my book.

It's been many years since a minivan was offered with a slider only on one side. I'm thinking early 2000's Kia Sedona and some of the short wheel base GM variants maybe.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by brages
Also, the 8th seat in the middle row gives flexibility to fold down seats in the back and still carry everyone. For smaller families, the 8th seat will probably just live in the garage, lol.


It's a cool little trick that little filler seat to make both 2nd and 3rd rows full bench seats.

One cool thing about the Chrysler vans, except the Pacifica IIRC is the Stow & Go seating. Having taken out the 2nd row captain chairs many times on the Sienna to haul stuff around like bikes, it's not exactly a fun nor tedious task but not back friendly.

I have one Capt chair that likes to be a pain in the keister now and then. You just gotta "pop" it right, sometimes with a little push, to get it out. Other than that the other seat pops right out and the stowable 3rd row split bench goes up/down super easy...my kids can stow it. Honestly, I initially hated the idea of trading in my SUV... but after having the van for 10yrs now, I'm more than happy with the decision to trade. The cargo carrying capacity on my long wheel base van is just unmatched.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by LeakySeals
Originally Posted by oilstudent24
Used Toyota Sienna FWD 12-16. Those years had the proven 6 speed transmission. MPG is probably a little better than the Dodge. Insurance was cheaper as well. Made for lower ownership cost. Have well over 100,000 miles with no breakdowns and routine maintenance. I'm not sure how reliable the new 8 speed transmission is yet.

My GFs dad has a 2012 Sienna AWD. Has 130k. Still uses the factory run flats which has saved him more than once.

The good:
Its fast. Shifts great. Handles good. Decent on gas

The bad:
Water pump failed at 102k. I couldn't, didnt want to fix it. Hard to work on. Tight awkward engine compartment. Required engine movement or engine removal to get water pump out. And rust. Wow is that van rusty underneath the body and in the engine compartment. I took pics of rotors during brake job last year. The rotors were welded on. Nuts, bolts, everything getting crispy. Shocking how fast that van is rusting underneath.


The rust is a product of road salt. All vehicles rust when driven in it...

As a general statement that's true. But I keep my vehicles for a long time and Im not used to seeing rust this bad after 5 New England winters. I cracked the rotors trying to use the bolt holes to get them off. I was getting nervous that I might damage the bearings or a hub. I won't work on that van anymore. It's not fun.

I know people have seen worse. So have I. But this is a 2012. Looks like a 2002 underneath.

 

[supton]

I wonder if that van just sees the worst of winter? I mean, driven on the saltiest of days, then parked in a garage. Mine aren't that bad I mean, and I just live north of you--I wonder if the southern part of the state (or Mass) just use more salt.

Actually, now that I think about it, we do tend to hole up on the bad days--school gets canceled, so wife stays home; I'll work from home on those days too. And we (used to anyhow) park outside, so maybe that all helps.

Toyota's have never been know for their rust resistance. Never.

 

[Huie83]

Those pictures are crazy! Our 06 Sienna driven in MN looks nothing like that underneath.

Starting a few years ago I begin spraying the underside and in the doors etc with Fluid Film, that really helps too. Makes it a tad greasy when working on stuff but WAY better than that rust. Still, even before Fluid film it was nothing like that. A little rust where the pinch welds etc are on the suspension components but the paint is still on a majority of stuff. Maybe it's a downturn in quality on the newer Toyota's?

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by grampi


If there's any truth to this, and I doubt there is, the Toyotas and Hondas are still better vehicles than the Chryslers...


And I don't think the Honda and Toyota minivans are good enough to command the price premium they do. Especially after sitting in a 2016 Sienna and then comparing it to even a 2018 Grand Caravan. But people love that kool-aid.

We had a Grand Caravan as a rental for 2 weeks while the Sienna was in the body shop getting some accident damage fixed. The Caravan wasn't a bad car, but I fail to see what makes it so much better than the Sienna. In fact, I much prefer my Sienna. And I'm no Kool-Aid drinker either: see my sig- I have a healthy mix of American iron and some Japanese. I'm a Ford guy first and foremost.

My Sienna also has hardly any rust underneath, despite living in New England its whole life.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by exranger06
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by grampi


If there's any truth to this, and I doubt there is, the Toyotas and Hondas are still better vehicles than the Chryslers...


And I don't think the Honda and Toyota minivans are good enough to command the price premium they do. Especially after sitting in a 2016 Sienna and then comparing it to even a 2018 Grand Caravan. But people love that kool-aid.

We had a Grand Caravan as a rental for 2 weeks while the Sienna was in the body shop getting some accident damage fixed. The Caravan wasn't a bad car, but I fail to see what makes it so much better than the Sienna. In fact, I much prefer my Sienna. And I'm no Kool-Aid drinker either: see my sig- I have a healthy mix of American iron and some Japanese. I'm a Ford guy first and foremost.

My Sienna also has hardly any rust underneath, despite living in New England its whole life.

What cracks me up are the ones who believe the Chrysler is all of a sudden a world class vehicle, with reliability and build quality equal to, or better than the Japanese makes, but yet they call people who prefer the Japanese makes Kool-Aid drinkers...some people never learn...

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by grampi


If there's any truth to this, and I doubt there is, the Toyotas and Hondas are still better vehicles than the Chryslers...


And I don't think the Honda and Toyota minivans are good enough to command the price premium they do. Especially after sitting in a 2016 Sienna and then comparing it to even a 2018 Grand Caravan. But people love that kool-aid.


We had a Sienna as a rental, the review of which I posted on here. To say that I was underwhelmed is a gross understatement, it was a steaming pile, but it's a Toyota, so it had to be awesome, apparently I was just oblivious to whatever it was that made it so

Check back when the Chrysler's tranny goes out at 100K and we'll see which one is the steaming pile...

Chrysler has worked out the kinks in the 42/62TE by now or they would've been pushing Hyundai's 6-speed or the ZF 9HP in all their FWD cars already...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by nthach
Chrysler has worked out the kinks in the 42/62TE by now or they would've been pushing Hyundai's 6-speed or the ZF 9HP in all their FWD cars already...


I'll believe that when I see it...

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted by grampi

What cracks me up are the ones who believe the Chrysler is all of a sudden a world class vehicle, with reliability and build quality equal to, or better than the Japanese makes, but yet they call people who prefer the Japanese makes Kool-Aid drinkers...some people never learn...


The scope of conversation/thread is the OP is buying used. People like myself are only stating the quality/reliability difference of Toyota/Honda vs Caravan is much more narrow then the balance of their cars/trucks/suvs Honda/Toyota offers. So the premium for a Honda/Toyota of likely $5000 used same mileage/year/options you don't buy as large of a gap in reliability/quality. You get lower mileage/newer Caravan for the same $12k spent in used situation. That is all the point that people are making.

I personally view minivan as consumer disposable goods and I think Toyota/Honda do too given the cheapness they exclude recently with hard plastics and build quality lower(Made in USA issues?).

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by nthach
Chrysler has worked out the kinks in the 42/62TE by now or they would've been pushing Hyundai's 6-speed or the ZF 9HP in all their FWD cars already...


I'll believe that when I see it...


You say that, but you won't. You'll have some other BS excuse. Toyota makes absolutely nothing but perfection, and any other automaker isn't allowed to improve themselves. The Malaise era ended almost 40 years ago, except to you.