Thought provoking quote from Mike Rowe "Dirty Jobs"

[PandaBear]

Jeff, do you honestly think that AutoMech could load up his 1990 Mazda pickup with his tools, move to Silicon Valley and make a go of it? Where could he afford to live for starters? He'd have a tough time coming to small town Arizona and finding a place to live that wasn't a total dump on a new mechanic's wage. Things are different down in the trenches.

Consider 3 of my last 10 mechanics I was using in the last 25 years went out of business in the bay area and people just don't repair old cars like the old days, I'd say it is a bad idea moving to SV as a mechanic, even if you are charging 150-200 / hr labor you may not be guaranteed a good income.

My new grad coworker's dad, doing repair on the side after his main job as a mechanic in a European shop, charging about $100/hr (because it is on the side), is classified as "low income" and qualified for partial section 8 subsidies. He is the single earner of a family of 4 (1 dependent child not yet working full time so for benefit it is a family of 3).

 

[RooflessVW]

I think a lot of people have a hard time looking outside of their own experiences. If it worked for you and you made it, or if it worked for your kids and they made it, that is only one situation out of millions.

A little empathy would go a long way.

 

[Cujet]

Not that I really care too much, but when I retire, I'm somewhat worried they won't find a viable replacement. I've not been able to find good help for many years now. As a general rule, competent people in my field are well employed and not available. Such is life.

 

[RDY4WAR]

I worry about the amount of people going to trades and services. There's been such a heavy push to go to college (with skyrocketing college tuition cost) but not much real talk about what comes afterward. "Hey, you got a degree... good luck now, see ya!" I'm not saying a good education isn't important, but not every career calls for a degree. The ones that day should have better guidance. An old friend of mine is a general manager for a tech company, in charge of hiring, and he said he received >300 applications in just 24 hours after posting a job looking for an entry level computer tech. Over 90% of them were college graduates with no prior experience in the field. He narrowed it down and ultimately hired someone with 6 years experience and some certifications but no degree because he could actually do the task as outlined without being guided where the college grads had no clue. They had book smarts but no idea how to apply it.

Aside from such positions, careers like trashmen, plumbers, welders, janitors, etc... are critical to our society and often pay as much as some careers that require a degree. My best friend passed away a few weeks ago (RIP)... and before he passed, he was making ~$450k/yr with a net worth of ~$2.8 million. He was 32 and didn't have a college degree. He had a 10 month trade school diploma in welding technology, started out as an apprentice in a pipefitters union, and took off running from there. He was the lead welding engineer on a major national construction project in Tennessee at the time of his death. Let that sink in a minute... lead welding engineer, with several engineers under him who had degrees, but he didn't have a degree and was younger than all but 2 of them.

A person's work ethic, and ability to apply their knowledge, will carry them further in their career than anything else.

 

[Astro14]

Funny how you assume I have no kids. You don't need to wait 30-40 years, maybe another 12-15 and I'll be able to tell you the answer.

What I do know is between the time I graduated and the time my kids will be graduating, the actual cost will be increased way higher than inflation.

OK. I’ll bite. Since you’ve never once mentioned them.

So - how old are they? What are they doing in school? What jobs do they have? How are you teaching them work ethic, responsibility, perspective, and value of money?

 

[xgmad]

But college is being shoved down our kids throats like it's the solution for

^^^^This , there was a time when college was just a place to expand knowledge to build upon, now it's the "only way" to get a job.

 

[IndyIan]

I kno

^^^^This , there was a time when college was just a place to expand knowledge to build upon, now it's the "only way" to get a job.

I know people that have done university first, then get into a trade, then run a business in the trade. Others that have done a trade then got a degree and have done very well. Most of my friends went to university and got an office job and are doing well.
If the goal is to have an office job and retire at 55 with a good pension, then probably college or university is a better bet.
If you want to be able to have financial freedom before 40 it seems that college, trade, your own business seems to be good.

My kids are pretty young still for a teen job, but we have chores for their allowance, etc...
They rarely turned on a TV themselves in last 4 years, its not a competitive entertainment option for them anymore as I'm not paying for a bunch of extra channels.

Youtube is the replacement and its filled with people who are getting paid to film themselves doing fun stuff, nice gig if you can pull it off for sure. So I support my oldest to make some videos, just to show that its work to make decent content, and even then its not easy to get yourself into a paid situation.

We are still working on the facts that some people
1. Do almost nothing to have easy money coming to them
2. appear to have easy money coming to them but work hard
3. work hard for very little money
4. don't work hard for little money
5. work reasonably hard for reasonable money.

Its mostly up to them where they want to be in the last 4 options, we can't and won't fund option 1 for them... I think we are on track for a low/no debt college degree and perhaps part of their first house, but we'll see how things pan out...

 

[GON]

I think getting a college degree is important but not entirely for the education. A four-year degree demonstrates you can finish something long term.

We all have our stories. My last year of high school I worked full time and part time. I was in the "work" program in high school, so I was allowed to leave high school early to go to work. I worked on a shipping dock of a technology leasing company, boxing and unboxing computers, printers, etc. This was 1980, computers were big back then, most items too big for UPS, we used trucking lines like ABF to transport the items. I learned a ton.

I have three degrees. I went to school for all the degrees as a full-time student. I worked a full-time job while earning each of the degrees. I have an associate in science in electronics engineering technology, which I earned while working both a full time and part time job. 3.69 GPA. For my bachelor and master's degree, I only worked full time and attend school full time, I worked no part time job while getting my last two degrees.

This is not to brag about degrees, I have zero to brag about. I needed the last two degrees to be competitive for promotion in the military. May not have earned the last two degrees if not a "ticket punch" on the promotion selection list. But I have zero regret getting the degrees WHILE working full time.

Of final note, many times, the military not only offers the GI bill to pay for education, and the GI bill typically not only pays all education expenses, but often pays room and board on top of the tuition, books, and fees. Very sweet deal for serving one's country for as little as two years.

Something not often talked about is student loan payoff. I am not fluent on this, but I believe some of the reserve services such as the Army Reserve will pay off one's student loans for signing up for a handful of years. And while one is signed up and serving in the reserves, they earn extra monthly money, qualify for a pension and/ or 401k type plan, a matching savings plan, health care, VA loan, and more, I am sure. The reports I read indicate the reserve services can't meet their congressionally mandated end-strength requirements. Seems like the reserves might match super well for paying off student loan debt, earning some entitlements, serving one's country, and being part of something bigger than themselves.

 

[CKN]

I worry about the amount of people going to trades and services. There's been such a heavy push to go to college (with skyrocketing college tuition cost) but not much real talk about what comes afterward. "Hey, you got a degree... good luck now, see ya!" I'm not saying a good education isn't important, but not every career calls for a degree. The ones that day should have better guidance. An old friend of mine is a general manager for a tech company, in charge of hiring, and he said he received >300 applications in just 24 hours after posting a job looking for an entry level computer tech. Over 90% of them were college graduates with no prior experience in the field. He narrowed it down and ultimately hired someone with 6 years experience and some certifications but no degree because he could actually do the task as outlined without being guided where the college grads had no clue. They had book smarts but no idea how to apply it.

Aside from such positions, careers like trashmen, plumbers, welders, janitors, etc... are critical to our society and often pay as much as some careers that require a degree. My best friend passed away a few weeks ago (RIP)... and before he passed, he was making ~$450k/yr with a net worth of ~$2.8 million. He was 32 and didn't have a college degree. He had a 10 month trade school diploma in welding technology, started out as an apprentice in a pipefitters union, and took off running from there. He was the lead welding engineer on a major national construction project in Tennessee at the time of his death. Let that sink in a minute... lead welding engineer, with several engineers under him who had degrees, but he didn't have a degree and was younger than all but 2 of them.

A person's work ethic, and ability to apply their knowledge, will carry them further in their career than anything else.

I know things are changing-but in years past you simply couldn't get in to a managerial position without a college degree. And it didn't have to be in business-just a degree.

 

[tmorris1]

Some young folks are lazy and don’t want to do any job / work.

Some young folks don’t want to work a blue collar job.

Some old folks are the same way... Not all young kids are lazy just as not all older people work their butts off or have a blue collar job. I know a lot of young kids in the late teens and early 20's that are out the door to work before 6 AM and get home around 6PM. I have kids that are working in the trades and are making a lot more money than I started out making.

 

[alarmguy]

Some young folks are lazy and don’t want to do any job / work.

Some young folks don’t want to work a blue collar job.

Yup, goes back to the parents.

 

[RDY4WAR]

I know things are changing-but in years past you simply couldn't get in to a managerial position without a college degree. And it didn't have to be in business-just a degree.

He knew every part of the welding robots, how to properly set them up, how to repair them, and could write programs for them. He could also manually weld anything the robots couldn't do, including titanium and special alloys. None of the other engineers on the job could do all of that. Therefore, he got the lead. The others knew everything he did and then some, he was not the most knowledgeable one there, but he was the only one who could actually apply it.

This is a video from when he was in South Korea. He was over there with Liburdi corp to teach the Koreans how to use robotic welders. He loved his craft.

Yup, goes back to the parents.

I heard it a lot growing up. "You better do good in school or you'll be stuck picking up trash your whole life." Hey, that trashman made $65k last year with a consistent schedule, no student load debt, home every night, and a pretty awesome benefits package. I'd deal with a little stinky trash for that.

 

[alarmguy]

^^^^This , there was a time when college was just a place to expand knowledge to build upon, now it's the "only way" to get a job.

Mostly true but that is changing as acceptance of "trade schools" Technical Schools is really taking hold now, even in the health care industry.
I mean, some technical stuff including desirable positions in some interesting advanced things like Radiology. Anyone with motivation can end up in a mid level or higher career and many times the company will pay you to train for even more.

The companies hiring use the college degree as a tool almost in many cases for entry level clerical stuff so they know you can read and write since HS degrees now can mean anything.
If you specialize in a trade school that focuses on a career you are just as much or more desirable for certain jobs then 4 year degrees.

and not least of anything, many ways to advance in the Blue Collar world today like never before in history. Such as working in a state of the art plant like BMW, good paying jobs, can raise a family, own a home ect ect... and you can advance as well.

I keep repeating, (sorry) never in history of the world has life been more easy than in the USA. Everyone and anyone can do whatever they want with their life. They just need to do it, instead of belly ache over the bad cruel world that does not exist.

 

[RDY4WAR]

The issue with everyone getting a degree is the degree becomes useless. It's no longer a milestone that separates you from the rest. It becomes the new high school diploma.

Note I'm not saying the education is useless. I'm saying the degree itself, the piece of paper, becomes useless.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yup, goes back to the parents.

What if the parents have little education or there is one or no parents?
Or what if the father has an Ivy League education, provides for the family but is too busy working to guide his children?
Where does this leave kids?

 

[tmorris1]

What if the parents have little education or there is one or no parents?
Or what if the father has an Ivy League education, provides for the family but is too busy working to guide his children?
Where does this leave kids?

As he said. It goes back to the parents. Different situations and how parents/kids handle them.

I know a lot of kids that had the ambition to better themselves even though their parents didn't and I know a lot that had everything given to them and for different reasons didn't take advantage. You just give them the opportunity and they have to do it.

 

[JeffKeryk]

As he said. It goes back to the parents. Different situations and how parents/kids handle them.

I know a lot of kids that had the ambition to better themselves even though their parents didn't and I know a lot that had everything given to them and for different reasons didn't take advantage. You just give them the opportunity and they have to do it.

My point was, what happens to the kids if there are no parents or the parents are not capable of providing guidance?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Blame it on leaded fuel.

 

[tmorris1]

My point was, what happens to the kids if there are no parents or the parents are not capable of providing guidance?

Yeah I know. They are in a tough spot, but what do you do? All you can do is hope they have some friends that rub off on them. My son has a friend that I would have called worthless as teets on a bore a few years ago. He had no parental guidance and pretty ,much lived off of welfare. Couldn't really fault him in his high school years as his parents did nothing for him, but once he turned 18 he needed to get a job. I think he is finally starting to come around slowly as he is seeing his friends working hard and buying houses, etc. Took a while, but it is better than never.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yeah I know. They are in a tough spot, but what do you do? All you can do is hope they have some friends that rub off on them. My son has a friend that I would have called worthless as teets on a bore a few years ago. He had no parental guidance and pretty ,much lived off of welfare. Couldn't really fault him in his high school years as his parents did nothing for him, but once he turned 18 he needed to get a job. I think he is finally starting to come around slowly as he is seeing his friends working hard and buying houses, etc. Took a while, but it is better than never.

Kids that need help are an opportunity for my happiness. That's my opinion.