Thought provoking quote from Mike Rowe "Dirty Jobs"

[AZjeff]

This is true. I firmly believe all work is honorable. Having said that, we tend to minimize the employees at Mickey D's, retail and even school teachers.

Well put. A person doing their job well deserves to be respected and compensated appropriately. I don't agree with the thinking that every job should be able to support a house, car, smartphones, etc. but something is wrong when 2 decent blue collar jobs can barely support a family. Not talking about McD or Walmart jobs, food service or retail has never paid very well. Geographic location plays a big role as well.

 

[doitmyself]

You know those old days you can work at a travel agency or general store, or gas station pumping gas while you are a teen, those jobs are now disappearing and if you have a kid you probably want to steer them away from them.

Dairy farming? mom and pop auto repair? working for your local government? those jobs are going to quickly disappear these days. You are probably going to run a risk of having your kids work part time during school to "pay for their own education" rather than finish school asap and find a first real job.

I disagree. There's lots of entry level jobs suitable for high school teens and college students. Stores, restaurants, small shops, and yes, farms. And why steer them away from them? These jobs teach them responsibility, time management, working for and with others, money management, setting priorities, learning and following directions, dealing with the public, social skills, and many other challenges. It's the foundation of their resume.

It's not entirely about them paying their own education, but it could be. I worked one year post high school at U.S. Steel Gary Works and made enough money to put me entirely through college. Yes, things are different now, but the concept of developing work ethic, values, and responsibility is still the same. I don't understand your "run the risk........rather than finish school asap and find a first real job". Working as a teen IS a first real job. Delaying college or other training is not the end of the world. Neither is working during college. I couldn't imagine leaving college and entering the work force with no previous real life experience. I have worked with these types fresh out of college - they come across as being molly coddled and struggle with real world dynamics.

Just my opinion.

 

[Astro14]

There is nothing new under the sun. Mike Rowe's observation is real but it is not the entire picture of the whole story. We have a combination of:

1) Some jobs pay way more than the others and you cannot work your way up to get them. Think of those 120-200K salary software jobs that you need to study 4 years in a reasonable college for and have 2-4 years of work experience to get that. You cannot work your way up from a McDonald's to that no matter your work ethics or how hard you work.

2) Our society has always been trying to find ways to cut out the labor intensive work, via automation or consumer behavior changes. You know those old days you can work at a travel agency or general store, or gas station pumping gas while you are a teen, those jobs are now disappearing and if you have a kid you probably want to steer them away from them.

You’re way off on how to raise kids.

Kids learn critical skills in those “teen”jobs.

All three of my kids had, well, kid jobs. They scooped ice cream, worked Hotel housekeeping, babysat for people.

The Ice Cream Store Owner was a great boss - high standards. Didn’t like the kids standing around. The kids worked for an hourly wage and tips. They earned their money, learned the value of a dollar, learned how to work hard, learned how to deal with the public. No hand out. No slacking off.

Those labor intensive, hard jobs, set my kids up for success on graduation from college. Sure, what they learned in college was important, but so was what they learned from the owner of an ice cream store.

They worked their way up, learning important values and lessons on the way up.

 

[Dave Hess]

All my kids were working at Publix Supermarket when they were 16.

Kids learn important skills at a low paying part time job. Just ask Jeff Bezos about the skills he learned working at McDonalds when he was 16.

My sister has a law firm and was a cashier at Burger King when she was 15.

 

[PandaBear]

I disagree. There's lots of entry level jobs suitable for high school teens and college students. Stores, restaurants, small shops, and yes, farms. And why steer them away from them? These jobs teach them responsibility, time management, working for and with others, money management, setting priorities, learning and following directions, dealing with the public, social skills, and many other challenges. It's the foundation of their resume.

It's not entirely about them paying their own education, but it could be. I worked one year post high school at U.S. Steel Gary Works and made enough money to put me entirely through college. Yes, things are different now, but the concept of developing work ethic, values, and responsibility is still the same. I don't understand your "run the risk........rather than finish school asap and find a first real job". Working as a teen IS a first real job. Delaying college or other training is not the end of the world. Neither is working during college. I couldn't imagine leaving college and entering the work force with no previous real life experience. I have worked with these types fresh out of college - they come across as being molly coddled and struggle with real world dynamics.

Just my opinion.

You’re way off on how to raise kids.

Kids learn critical skills in those “teen”jobs.

All three of my kids had, well, kid jobs. They scooped ice cream, worked Hotel housekeeping, babysat for people.

The Ice Cream Store Owner was a great boss - high standards. Didn’t like the kids standing around. The kids worked for an hourly wage and tips. They earned their money, learned the value of a dollar, learned how to work hard, learned how to deal with the public. No hand out. No slacking off.

Those labor intensive, hard jobs, set my kids up for success on graduation from college. Sure, what they learned in college was important, but so was what they learned from the owner of an ice cream store.

They worked their way up, learning important values and lessons on the way up.

You can think of it that way (that these "teen jobs" are good at raising your kids).

Assuming that you are at the choice between telling your kids they have to borrow student loans to finish school on their own, vs they have to work part time to pay off school while they are attending, assuming they are putting in the same effort, strictly financially speaking, they are probably better off finishing school early instead of slightly later with a part time job. Maybe they can take 4 more units of credits during college per semester and graduate in 3.5 years (if they attend summer classes) instead of graduate in 4.5 years (if they work part time with teen jobs).

I've taken school jobs (IT help desk) during 1st and 2nd year at college then realize the math doesn't work out, and I was already paid for by my parents. I ended up taking more classes and do internship (helps you find your first job afterward) later instead.

I will say this, the people who took part time job because they have to, have no choice, and if they have a choice they probably would finish school earlier with less student loans and start earning sooner. If they have no concern about this because their parents pay for the schools or they earned enough from scholarship or grants, great for them. It is really a luxury that not everyone can afford to do (just like study aboard or other "international travel" people do during college age), yes, working part time at lowish paying job while you are accumulating debt is expensive, and it typically never work out positive financially speaking.

The same goes for "moving out of parents' basement" when you go to college. Many these days go to community college and nearby public colleges for 4 year degrees instead of moving out. I'd say going to a private university and moving out is also a luxury that rarely make financial sense unless it is a top university and you are going into a high paying major (like engineering, not liberal art or communication).

Based on the new grads I know at my work, I can say the young people today are much more financially literate than the young people at my generation, most likely because they are much more in debt, and unlike my generation they don't get as much grants, scholarships, and tuitions / housing cost / etc are way higher today than back then.

 

[AZjeff]

You’re way off on how to raise kids.

Kids learn critical skills in those “teen”jobs.

All three of my kids had, well, kid jobs. They scooped ice cream, worked Hotel housekeeping, babysat for people.

My kids did too, as did wife and I. A problem today is you see people in their 30s, 40s, 50s etc who apparently can't advance past these jobs.

 

[PimTac]

All my kids were working at Publix Supermarket when they were 16.

Kids learn important skills at a low paying part time job.

My sister has a law firm and was a cashier at Burger King when she was 15.

A bag boy was a great job for a teen. Not only did they learn job responsibilities and financial skills with their earned money they learned people skills interacting with customers, helping them get their groceries to the car and loading them.

Tons of kids went on to better paying jobs after a customer observed their work ethic and hired them on elsewhere. That was the thing, you might never know that the older gentleman you helped with his groceries owned the big plant or another business in town.

 

[supton]

Based on the new grads I know at my work, I can say the young people today are much more financially literate than the young people at my generation, most likely because they are much more in debt, and unlike my generation they don't get as much grants, scholarships, and tuitions / housing cost / etc are way higher today than back then.

It's a bit ironic, back then I knew nothing, and thought borrowing was the only way. Although I did notice some college mates who juggled jobs to pay for credit hours as they went... I figured as you did, it was better to work at school 100% then trying to split my attention. [I lucked out, my GPA rose as I went through all 4 years, from bottom to good enough.] Wasn't until I was 36 before I started looking into becoming "financially literate". My kids, irony being what it is, will get pushed into community school et al and will get an earful from me about saving--yet will likely be living at home well past 18, current situation being what it is.

 

[Astro14]

You can think of it that way (that these "teen jobs" are good at raising your kids).

Assuming that you are at the choice between telling your kids they have to borrow student loans to finish school on their own, vs they have to work part time to pay off school while they are attending, assuming they are putting in the same effort, strictly financially speaking, they are probably better off finishing school early instead of slightly later with a part time job. Maybe they can take 4 more units of credits during college per semester and graduate in 3.5 years (if they attend summer classes) instead of graduate in 4.5 years (if they work part time with teen jobs).

I've taken school jobs (IT help desk) during 1st and 2nd year at college then realize the math doesn't work out, and I was already paid for by my parents. I ended up taking more classes and do internship (helps you find your first job afterward) later instead.

I will say this, the people who took part time job because they have to, have no choice, and if they have a choice they probably would finish school earlier with less student loans and start earning sooner. If they have no concern about this because their parents pay for the schools or they earned enough from scholarship or grants, great for them. It is really a luxury that not everyone can afford to do (just like study aboard or other "international travel" people do during college age), yes, working part time at lowish paying job while you are accumulating debt is expensive, and it typically never work out positive financially speaking.

The same goes for "moving out of parents' basement" when you go to college. Many these days go to community college and nearby public colleges for 4 year degrees instead of moving out. I'd say going to a private university and moving out is also a luxury that rarely make financial sense unless it is a top university and you are going into a high paying major (like engineering, not liberal art or communication).

Based on the new grads I know at my work, I can say the young people today are much more financially literate than the young people at my generation, most likely because they are much more in debt, and unlike my generation they don't get as much grants, scholarships, and tuitions / housing cost / etc are way higher today than back then.

For a guy who’s never had kids, you sure have a lot of opinions on how best to prepare them for the real world.

All three of my kids are doing just fine, thanks. I put them, and all three step kids, through college. They were all treated about the same. All worked. All had performance expectations. All had “teen” jobs.

All six graduated from good schools, with ZERO debt.

Let’s compare notes on that success in say, 30 or 40 years, when you’ve had a chance to be a parent, raise kids, put kids through college, and see how they end up.

 

[AutoMechanic]

I really respect Mike Rowe a lot and listen to what he has to say. Here is my take on it:

I myself feel I’m a great worker. I maybe young but certainly not lazy. Still a lot for me to see and learn as well. But I’m good at what I do and receive compliments and tips all the time about the job I do. And I’m very confident in the job I do and take pride in my work. We have not had good luck with young workers at any of the places I’ve worked at. In fact at my first job they were like well we haven’t had good luck with anyone under 25 but we will give you a shot. Unfortunate but true. We have had quite a few mistakes with our young guys like wheels coming off or oil outs that lead to blown engines. Don’t give up if you make a mistake because I’ve seen that as well just make sure it doesn’t happen again. I definitely feel I’m a good worker especially after my company came to me offering me more money just as I was about to ask for more anyway so that took me out of an uncomfortable spot. Usually a company is not going to offer you more money, you generally have to ask. They thanked me for everything I’ve done like never ever missing a day or being late or leaving early and for letting people use tools when I didn’t have too and being there when no one else chose to be and ran the shop by myself several times and how they seen that I was a natural mechanic because when I was the only one there I didn’t let jobs kick my tail I said I can do it and got it done even if it was out of my comfort zone or knowledge base and how I come up with good solutions to problems or whatever. And yes I do make mistakes, everyone does. I didn’t tighten an oil filter fully once and it got all over the guys driveway so they made me clean it up. The filter was tight when it left but the GM filters have to be tightened with a cup otherwise they vibrate loose and it was my negligence that didn’t do it and that’s not the only thing I’ve done but never once have I gotten in trouble for a mistake they say take the problem and learn from it. And I agree with that and not give up either as I stated earlier. I’ve been at that company a year now and love it very much. It’s where I hope to stay for the long run. They are pretty tolerant with me despite the fact I’m slow at least to their standards but not as slow as some there but they did tell me try and speed up. That’s part of the reason I haven’t been flat rate at this place because they know I’m slow and I do as well and I acknowledge that. Instead they sat me down and talked with me saying there is always a place for me. They asked if I would train new techs and stay hourly. Whenever there is no one to train I’m doing fun stuff on Subaru not just stuff like oil changes or whatever and a lot of guys get stuck doing that for awhile but I had to prove myself of course and show work ethic. After they seen I could run the shop by myself they told me have at it because I earned it. A lot of guys get to changing oil and then don’t try and go get more work they don’t volunteer they just wait for the work to come to them. I say you need to be up at the managers desk saying hey what do you have that I can do? Don’t wait for work to come to you, you have to come to the work. And then they are wondering well why haven’t I moved up yet? Well it’s because you haven’t shown them you can do more you can’t just stand there looking pretty when there is plenty of work to go around.

We have this kid there, 18, bought a very expensive used Mustang, owes way more than I’ve ever owed to the tool man and doesn’t make the best decisions. I can’t say I’ve always made the best decisions for myself but I’ve also been one to avoid as much debt as I can even though I do carry a small amount to the tool trucks. I really do feel bad for him because I think he would be a good worker if he would put his phone down and pay attention. And most importantly for him stay out of trouble with the law. I trained him better than that. He blew his opportunity to get a state inspection license for another year because he kept getting speeding tickets the officer knew he was trying so he let him off with a warning the first one or two times then he gave him 6 months before he could get it now it’s a year. He keeps asking management why they haven’t given him a raise or advancement yet that he asked for 3 months ago they tell him you need to work on your skills and stay off your phone and they would consider it. And they pointed at the fact he can’t preform an oil change and tire rotation by himself and always calls for help. I’ve even tried to talk to him and offer to help but he says nah I got it I have to prove to them I can but then he gives up and eventually gets someone to come over because he can’t break a filter loose or has oil on his hands and doesn’t want to air up the tires. I am too young to properly see what the full problem maybe but I think it’s a lot to do with how you were raised, peer behavior and probably other factors as well. I don’t like what I see with some of my generation but there are good and bad just like their has been with every generation. And as you can see if you work hard and try it will pay off like it did for me.


That’s just my perspective on it. Regardless of age be a good worker who proves themselves and my most important thing I stress is don’t give up.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Well, it kinda depends on what you want and your KSAs (knowledge skills and abilities).
You want more then go for it. You want opportunity then come to Silicon Valley and go for it.

And remember, if you are lucky enough to have desire, drive, stick-to-it-ness, whatever, lend a hand to others not so lucky.
If 1 in 10 gets it, you are a winner. That's my 2 cents.

 

[bbhero]

So, the US is near record low unemployment claims and a near record low unemployment rate (many states are at record lows), yet the narrative is still, “nobody wants to work anymore”? C’mon….

This is classic “kids these days” nonsense.

Garbage statistics...


Absolutely garbage.



Just like the supposed " great economy and work force employment" etc in 2004-2008....

And so it goes...


We in the same place now as then....

I watched a extremely enlightening documentary on Link TV network about that 2003-2009 time frame. It was interesting to watch these fools on one network make fun and carry on with this one economic advisor about what was actually happening at that time.

Yeah.... Everything that man said on the network that rhymes with Rocks... He was proven 100 percent right on. But his understanding was not from just a economic point of view or a ideological point of view or based upon phony government statistics or phony real estate values etc wtc... It was based upon what was really going on and the rotten underpinning of that fake appearance that everything was so.... Really not so great.

Just like now....

Things are way screwed up.

I was not shocked or surprised by what transpired in 2007-2009. Not remotely.

 

[AZjeff]

Well, it kinda depends on what you want and your KSAs (knowledge skills and abilities).
You want more then go for it. You want opportunity then come to Silicon Valley and go for it.

Jeff, do you honestly think that AutoMech could load up his 1990 Mazda pickup with his tools, move to Silicon Valley and make a go of it? Where could he afford to live for starters? He'd have a tough time coming to small town Arizona and finding a place to live that wasn't a total dump on a new mechanic's wage. Things are different down in the trenches.

 

[MotorFan]

So, the US is near record low unemployment claims and a near record low unemployment rate (many states are at record lows), yet the narrative is still, “nobody wants to work anymore”? C’mon….

This is classic “kids these days” nonsense.

Have you ever heard of what is known as the labor force participation rate ?

 

[GON]

When I lived in Central Pennsylvania I learned a new term. Adult Employment Participation rate. Adults that are working, and contributing to the economy. If I remember correctly, it was under 50 percent. That meant 50+ percent of working age adults in Central Pennsylvania were not working, not contributing to the economy except by spending received entitlements/ government payments.

 

[brianl703]

Jeff, do you honestly think that AutoMech could load up his 1990 Mazda pickup with his tools, move to Silicon Valley and make a go of it? Where could he afford to live for starters? He'd have a tough time coming to small town Arizona and finding a place to live that wasn't a total dump on a new mechanic's wage. Things are different down in the trenches.

Some areas are not where you want to be working if you are a blue-collar worker. I've long suspected that is the case in Northern Virginia, and my dad's experience with getting laid off (he was an aircraft mechanic) and not being able to find a job for months and then having to settle for one that didn't pay nearly as much as what he was making before. Worthy of note, the employer that laid him off forced him to move to Northern Virginia (suburbs of Washington, DC) from Chicago to keep his job.

I suspect that he would have had NO trouble finding a job in Chicago or it's suburbs. And one that paid well.

 

[brianl703]

That meant 50+ percent of working age adults in Central Pennsylvania were not working, not contributing to the economy except by spending received entitlements/ government payments.

I know far more people on SSI (disability) than I should. I don't know if it's this area or what. Worth noting that nearly all of them are not from families that moved to Northern Virginia for a job...

...and to be perfectly honest, Mike Rowe's quote is applicable to some of the people in this area over 30 years ago...and their kids..and probably their kid's kids...and so on.

 

[M56959]

Folks I know everyone loves a good complaint topic, stay on topic, don't bicker and be civil to each other as anymore moderation will shut this down.

 

[PandaBear]

For a guy who’s never had kids, you sure have a lot of opinions on how best to prepare them for the real world.

All three of my kids are doing just fine, thanks. I put them, and all three step kids, through college. They were all treated about the same. All worked. All had performance expectations. All had “teen” jobs.

All six graduated from good schools, with ZERO debt.

Let’s compare notes on that success in say, 30 or 40 years, when you’ve had a chance to be a parent, raise kids, put kids through college, and see how they end up.

Funny how you assume I have no kids. You don't need to wait 30-40 years, maybe another 12-15 and I'll be able to tell you the answer.

What I do know is between the time I graduated and the time my kids will be graduating, the actual cost will be increased way higher than inflation.

 

[PandaBear]

When I lived in Central Pennsylvania I learned a new term. Adult Employment Participation rate. Adults that are working, and contributing to the economy. If I remember correctly, it was under 50 percent. That meant 50+ percent of working age adults in Central Pennsylvania were not working, not contributing to the economy except by spending received entitlements/ government payments.

From what I googled, the typical US rate is 67% or so from 16+ to like 75+. When you look at 25-55 it is about 75-83%. So 50% "aren't the end of the world" if you factor in stay at home mom and people still in "school". You can't assume 100% - 50% are all on welfare program, math doesn't work like that.

https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/civilian-labor-force-participation-rate.htm