I got a 81 daily commute, from 500' sea level to 4300', not freeways, all open road. I drive a 08 civic and I average normally around 40mpg.
Thought experiment - not looking to actually buy..
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I don't know about using one for pizza delivery, but I'll 3rd the hybrid suggestion. 2012 Prius is rated for 51 mpg in the city.
Since it's hypothetical, I'd go with the hybrid. Stop and go, I'd want an automatic. A hybrid might not great in heavy acceleration/braking but I think it'd still come out ahead of a non-hybrid.
But if it was for delivering pizzas, where it's going to get beat on and while making little money, probably some Kia/Hyundia. I think you can buy them for less than a Civic (another good buy), which may justify the slightly higher running costs. I would just plan on flipping it once any big dollar repair comes up, though.
But if it was for delivering pizzas, where it's going to get beat on and while making little money, probably some Kia/Hyundia. I think you can buy them for less than a Civic (another good buy), which may justify the slightly higher running costs. I would just plan on flipping it once any big dollar repair comes up, though.
yes, all hypothetical, but inspired by a buddy of mine who IS delivering pizza in Columbus, avg 70-100mi daily. Currently using 03 pontiac vibe.
what i forgot to put in my Original Post was that I was thinking very used, $5k budget(what he overpaid for the vibe).
lots of folks on the hybrid bandwagon, but no one answered my question about a small diesel (mini, jetta, etc.)
what i forgot to put in my Original Post was that I was thinking very used, $5k budget(what he overpaid for the vibe).
lots of folks on the hybrid bandwagon, but no one answered my question about a small diesel (mini, jetta, etc.)
Originally Posted By: earlyre
yes, all hypothetical, but inspired by a buddy of mine who IS delivering pizza in Columbus, avg 70-100mi daily. Currently using 03 pontiac vibe.
what i forgot to put in my Original Post was that I was thinking very used, $5k budget(what he overpaid for the vibe).
lots of folks on the hybrid bandwagon, but no one answered my question about a small diesel (mini, jetta, etc.)
http://www.fueleconomy.gov answers most mileage questions
A 2001 Golf TDI is rated at 35mpg city, a gas one is rated 2l mpg city...
Pretty significant savings to be had if the car holds together. Realistically, maybe something like an $800 Neon might be better, as there are no expensive repairs and any independent garage can fix them. They handle well, the auto is tough and for city driving you could leave it in 2 and it would never shift gears except when you stop or floor it... Mileage wouldn't be that great but maybe it would even out with lower maintenance costs?
yes, all hypothetical, but inspired by a buddy of mine who IS delivering pizza in Columbus, avg 70-100mi daily. Currently using 03 pontiac vibe.
what i forgot to put in my Original Post was that I was thinking very used, $5k budget(what he overpaid for the vibe).
lots of folks on the hybrid bandwagon, but no one answered my question about a small diesel (mini, jetta, etc.)
http://www.fueleconomy.gov answers most mileage questions
A 2001 Golf TDI is rated at 35mpg city, a gas one is rated 2l mpg city...
Pretty significant savings to be had if the car holds together. Realistically, maybe something like an $800 Neon might be better, as there are no expensive repairs and any independent garage can fix them. They handle well, the auto is tough and for city driving you could leave it in 2 and it would never shift gears except when you stop or floor it... Mileage wouldn't be that great but maybe it would even out with lower maintenance costs?
2005 Neon.
Might I also suggest a Crown Vic? They're quite large, so you could fit a lot of pizzas in there. And you could drive like most of the people under 80 I see... Pretend you're a cop and tailgate everyone until they move out of your way. This allows you to deliver pizza more quickly and thus get more in tips, helping to defray the cars thirst for fuel. And what better car to show up in than a 4000 pound land yacht?
I realize it's not at all the right choice, but we inevitably have to not only mention Panthers, but turn the topic of conversation over to them.
Realistically, for use like that, the smaller the engine and the smaller the car, the better. Not sure I'd want to be rowing the gears in a manual transmission for that kind of use, either.
I realize it's not at all the right choice, but we inevitably have to not only mention Panthers, but turn the topic of conversation over to them.
Realistically, for use like that, the smaller the engine and the smaller the car, the better. Not sure I'd want to be rowing the gears in a manual transmission for that kind of use, either.
It's a shame that the MINI One Diesel never arrived on our shores or a used one would be good. I also think a Volks TDI would be a good choice.
Here's an interesting idea - old Saab. They last a long time, are safe, are cheap, fairly easy to work on, comfortable, and fun to drive to boot. They also can get pretty good gas mileage if you don't spool up the turbo to much.
Here's an interesting idea - old Saab. They last a long time, are safe, are cheap, fairly easy to work on, comfortable, and fun to drive to boot. They also can get pretty good gas mileage if you don't spool up the turbo to much.
Originally Posted By: earlyre
what i forgot to put in my Original Post was that I was thinking very used, $5k budget(what he overpaid for the vibe).
lots of folks on the hybrid bandwagon, but no one answered my question about a small diesel (mini, jetta, etc.)
If you think $5,000 is overpaying for a used Vibe, you won't like the cost of any reasonable used small diesel, at least not one that would run reliably.
I'd skip the diesel option unless you are seriously considering a veggie oil conversion. Not because diesels aren't good options, but because I don't think you'd get a reliable diesel vehicle for $5,000.
what i forgot to put in my Original Post was that I was thinking very used, $5k budget(what he overpaid for the vibe).
lots of folks on the hybrid bandwagon, but no one answered my question about a small diesel (mini, jetta, etc.)
If you think $5,000 is overpaying for a used Vibe, you won't like the cost of any reasonable used small diesel, at least not one that would run reliably.
I'd skip the diesel option unless you are seriously considering a veggie oil conversion. Not because diesels aren't good options, but because I don't think you'd get a reliable diesel vehicle for $5,000.
Ditto. Diesels are nice, but the later models (that wouldn't get for a song) have expensive repairs, if anything breaks. Older ones that you could get for a song are just going to have expensive repairs. You could luck out, but eh... The prices have closed up dramatically between RUG and D2, a 40mpg RUG-burner will do decently-well compared to a D2-burner.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I'd skip the diesel option unless you are seriously considering a veggie oil conversion. Not because diesels aren't good options, but because I don't think you'd get a reliable diesel vehicle for $5,000.
I'd skip the VO 'conversion' while you're at it. You'll never get back your initial investment unless your time is worthless - and VO cars take hours and hours of time the companies selling you the grease kits will never acknowledge. You'd be much better off gearing up to make good quality biodiesel instead.
There's one - maybe two - guys on TDIClub that have been moderately successful with WVO and the amount of time & energy they admit to spending on their fuel supply & vehicles is astounding.
And were I in the market for a new used car, keep in mind that RUG is typically cheaper than diesel most of the year. Used to be that D2 was always cheaper than RUG but that hasn't been my experience for the past 3 years or so. Do the math on what will cost you the least amount per mile, not the least amount to fill up.
I'd skip the diesel option unless you are seriously considering a veggie oil conversion. Not because diesels aren't good options, but because I don't think you'd get a reliable diesel vehicle for $5,000.
I'd skip the VO 'conversion' while you're at it. You'll never get back your initial investment unless your time is worthless - and VO cars take hours and hours of time the companies selling you the grease kits will never acknowledge. You'd be much better off gearing up to make good quality biodiesel instead.
There's one - maybe two - guys on TDIClub that have been moderately successful with WVO and the amount of time & energy they admit to spending on their fuel supply & vehicles is astounding.
And were I in the market for a new used car, keep in mind that RUG is typically cheaper than diesel most of the year. Used to be that D2 was always cheaper than RUG but that hasn't been my experience for the past 3 years or so. Do the math on what will cost you the least amount per mile, not the least amount to fill up.
I wouldn't do the VO conversion for a driver like this either. But that was my point: unless the OP specifically wants to do it as a project or personal interest, I see little reason in buying a diesel over a gasser.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: earlyre
what i forgot to put in my Original Post was that I was thinking very used, $5k budget(what he overpaid for the vibe).
lots of folks on the hybrid bandwagon, but no one answered my question about a small diesel (mini, jetta, etc.)
If you think $5,000 is overpaying for a used Vibe, you won't like the cost of any reasonable used small diesel, at least not one that would run reliably.
I'd skip the diesel option unless you are seriously considering a veggie oil conversion. Not because diesels aren't good options, but because I don't think you'd get a reliable diesel vehicle for $5,000.
Exactly, I think $5K is definitely within the going rate of an '03 Vibe in central Ohio where used car prices are high. I don't think the guy could've done better than a Vibe for pizza deliver. They're manueverable, easy on gas, about as reliable as it gets, they're often simple and noncomplicated, easy to work on and parts are not real expensive. About the only way they lack is they ride a little hard on the rough streets.
Also diesel is often times 15% more than regular unleaded and that eats up most if not all of the fuel milage advantage. And a hybrid's cost would not be offset by the higher gas milage.
Originally Posted By: earlyre
what i forgot to put in my Original Post was that I was thinking very used, $5k budget(what he overpaid for the vibe).
lots of folks on the hybrid bandwagon, but no one answered my question about a small diesel (mini, jetta, etc.)
If you think $5,000 is overpaying for a used Vibe, you won't like the cost of any reasonable used small diesel, at least not one that would run reliably.
I'd skip the diesel option unless you are seriously considering a veggie oil conversion. Not because diesels aren't good options, but because I don't think you'd get a reliable diesel vehicle for $5,000.
Exactly, I think $5K is definitely within the going rate of an '03 Vibe in central Ohio where used car prices are high. I don't think the guy could've done better than a Vibe for pizza deliver. They're manueverable, easy on gas, about as reliable as it gets, they're often simple and noncomplicated, easy to work on and parts are not real expensive. About the only way they lack is they ride a little hard on the rough streets.
Also diesel is often times 15% more than regular unleaded and that eats up most if not all of the fuel milage advantage. And a hybrid's cost would not be offset by the higher gas milage.
guys, i'm not knocking vibes in general (it's mostly a toyota matrix, with a few gm goodies messing things up
)
$5,000 for a good vibe, yes. Not this one. he over paid for THIS PARTICULAR vibe.
he knew that was the model he wanted, and had just inherited a little money, and bought the first one he saw, with out having it checked out.
@ all.
not even carfax.
(spring/ Summer 2010, @ that time a 7 yr old car, with 120k miles)
1)it's an obvious front end total, w/a quick, "that'll do" repair job.
2)none of the seams are consistent up front, fenders are not quite "home"( you can push it -the fender not the car- down a bit where it is supposed to meet up with the A pillar.
3)NONE of the splash guards/inner fender plastic liners are present.
4)blower ONLY works on high(we replaced the resistor, didn't fix squat),
5)has the blend door flap (broken plastic gear in blend door motor constantly ticking back & forth [GM part, the Toyota's use a totally different system])
6)passenger door internals are mangled up to where the window motor isn't aligned properly(DON'T DARE ROLL IT DOWN!!, putting it back up is a 2 person job, one to operate the switch, the other to keep it in channel manually)
7)struts all need replaced
8)drivers door grinds against the fender whenever you open it.
8a)the door stays are broken so the doors swing ALL the way open
9)console is cracked,
10)radio was starting to fail until i got him an aftermarket unit for Christmas
that's just off the top of my head......
still think he got a good deal?
$5,000 for a good vibe, yes. Not this one. he over paid for THIS PARTICULAR vibe.
he knew that was the model he wanted, and had just inherited a little money, and bought the first one he saw, with out having it checked out.
@ all.
not even carfax.
(spring/ Summer 2010, @ that time a 7 yr old car, with 120k miles)
1)it's an obvious front end total, w/a quick, "that'll do" repair job.
2)none of the seams are consistent up front, fenders are not quite "home"( you can push it -the fender not the car- down a bit where it is supposed to meet up with the A pillar.
3)NONE of the splash guards/inner fender plastic liners are present.
4)blower ONLY works on high(we replaced the resistor, didn't fix squat),
5)has the blend door flap (broken plastic gear in blend door motor constantly ticking back & forth [GM part, the Toyota's use a totally different system])
6)passenger door internals are mangled up to where the window motor isn't aligned properly(DON'T DARE ROLL IT DOWN!!, putting it back up is a 2 person job, one to operate the switch, the other to keep it in channel manually)
7)struts all need replaced
8)drivers door grinds against the fender whenever you open it.
8a)the door stays are broken so the doors swing ALL the way open
9)console is cracked,
10)radio was starting to fail until i got him an aftermarket unit for Christmas
that's just off the top of my head......
still think he got a good deal?
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I wouldn't do the VO conversion for a driver like this either. But that was my point: unless the OP specifically wants to do it as a project or personal interest, I see little reason in buying a diesel over a gasser.
if it was for a project, I'd go out to my uncles place in Idaho, and try to resurrect his mid 80's Diesel Rabbit, that's been sitting out for 15+ yrs. in the Idaho High Desert or the old diesel bug a couple cars down from it in his yard (they live far enough out into farm country, all their vehicles were diesel, until it became almost impossible to buy a diesel car..)
I wouldn't do the VO conversion for a driver like this either. But that was my point: unless the OP specifically wants to do it as a project or personal interest, I see little reason in buying a diesel over a gasser.
if it was for a project, I'd go out to my uncles place in Idaho, and try to resurrect his mid 80's Diesel Rabbit, that's been sitting out for 15+ yrs. in the Idaho High Desert or the old diesel bug a couple cars down from it in his yard (they live far enough out into farm country, all their vehicles were diesel, until it became almost impossible to buy a diesel car..)
I do about that in my truck. 15-16 mpg's...
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if only the Fiat panda was available over here.
i think the current model w/ the 0.9L 2cyl turbo(80hp) could be perfect for this type application.
Fiat Panda - Wikipedia
i think the current model w/ the 0.9L 2cyl turbo(80hp) could be perfect for this type application.
Fiat Panda - Wikipedia
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