thats it. A person can compare multiple oils against each other.
Thinking of putting in 0W-30 instead of 5W-20
- Thread starter Deer_Slayer
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We really need to produce some "house" reference graphs. A bunch of common viscs and maybe a few synths on top. Typical 10w-30 vs 5w-40 is the first one I'd like to see.
A scree shot comparing PP 0w20, PP 5w20, GC 0w30 and Amsoil SSO 0w30
Nice, but I think the key will be a log scale or seperate cold and hot graphs. Definately a nice graph though. 0f is the most relavent temp for me, but I'm shure it gets interesting as it goes down further.
lol, easier if you make the lines' colours specific to the oil, like Pennzoil yellow, GC green etc...just kidding, but yeah.
lol, easier if you make the lines' colours specific to the oil, like Pennzoil yellow, GC green etc...just kidding, but yeah.
Best just to go to widmans site and play with it to see how your oils and temkps stack up.
I will, I will....
The raw data is a pita to find though (I haz dial-up).
The raw data is a pita to find though (I haz dial-up).
Ouch Yeah you gotta search all thes respective PDS's and then input the data. It is wirth it if you can find the data howevr.
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
A scree shot comparing PP 0w20, PP 5w20, GC 0w30 and Amsoil SSO 0w30
Where did you get the number of 66.8 as the Viscosity cSt @ 40C for GC 0W-30?
John
A scree shot comparing PP 0w20, PP 5w20, GC 0w30 and Amsoil SSO 0w30
Where did you get the number of 66.8 as the Viscosity cSt @ 40C for GC 0W-30?
John
Originally Posted By: Deer_Slayer
took more time in cold start ups to flow to the valves and cams.
I don't know how that could be a problem because the lifters and cam lobes sit in a bath of oil with Toyota's valvetrain design. They are always sitting in oil, even when the engine is off.
I seriously think a lot of the noise people hear is piston slap and hydraulic timing chain tensioners, which have become a more common.
took more time in cold start ups to flow to the valves and cams.
I don't know how that could be a problem because the lifters and cam lobes sit in a bath of oil with Toyota's valvetrain design. They are always sitting in oil, even when the engine is off.
I seriously think a lot of the noise people hear is piston slap and hydraulic timing chain tensioners, which have become a more common.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: Deer_Slayer
took more time in cold start ups to flow to the valves and cams.
I don't know how that could be a problem because the lifters and cam lobes sit in a bath of oil with Toyota's valvetrain design. They are always sitting in oil, even when the engine is off.
I seriously think a lot of the noise people hear is piston slap and hydraulic timing chain tensioners, which have become a more common.
X2
Originally Posted By: Deer_Slayer
took more time in cold start ups to flow to the valves and cams.
I don't know how that could be a problem because the lifters and cam lobes sit in a bath of oil with Toyota's valvetrain design. They are always sitting in oil, even when the engine is off.
I seriously think a lot of the noise people hear is piston slap and hydraulic timing chain tensioners, which have become a more common.
X2
Glad to hear that the Tacoma engine design as you describe it would not allow dry engine start ups. One question: What is the "piston slap" that you mensioned?
Also my whole aim is trying to get the engine to run quieter and produce less vibration. It has been annoying me and I believe this engine should run smooter than this. Do you think 5W-30 or even 0W-30 would help in this regard?
Also my whole aim is trying to get the engine to run quieter and produce less vibration. It has been annoying me and I believe this engine should run smooter than this. Do you think 5W-30 or even 0W-30 would help in this regard?
i also have the 2008 tacoma i4. I use PP 5w-20 and is quiet and smooth on start up and all thru the rpm range.
good luck.
good luck.
Originally Posted By: jpr
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
We used to have some software available that we could plug in the40°c and 100°c temps get a viscosity index and then calculate the oils viscosity curve through all temperatures. I have lost my link to it.
As was mentioned a 5w30 can be thiner at your starting temps than a 0w30. a 5w20 is definately thinner at most starting temps than most 0w30's.
I like Widman's - http://www.widman.biz/Seleccion/Viscosidad/Conversiones/Graph/graph.html
O.k., what am I doing wrong? When I plug my numbers in for RP 0w10, viscosity cSt at 100 degrees celsius, 6.7, and viscosity cSt at 40 degrees celsius, 48?, it appears to be thicker than Mobil 1 0w40 at 0 degrees celsius.
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
We used to have some software available that we could plug in the40°c and 100°c temps get a viscosity index and then calculate the oils viscosity curve through all temperatures. I have lost my link to it.
As was mentioned a 5w30 can be thiner at your starting temps than a 0w30. a 5w20 is definately thinner at most starting temps than most 0w30's.
I like Widman's - http://www.widman.biz/Seleccion/Viscosidad/Conversiones/Graph/graph.html
O.k., what am I doing wrong? When I plug my numbers in for RP 0w10, viscosity cSt at 100 degrees celsius, 6.7, and viscosity cSt at 40 degrees celsius, 48?, it appears to be thicker than Mobil 1 0w40 at 0 degrees celsius.
What about CCS & MRV? Aren't those more significant values than cSt?
Yeah, but they won't fit a predicitive equation.
To the original poster: Please define a "middle of winter" "cold start" situstion in your climate? Is your vehicle so low viscosity oil dependant that it needs 0W-x0? I always thought a Toyota truck engine, and a 2.7L 4 would be a base engine (Right?), would be more industrial than high maintenance.
More 5 (or "10") W-30 than some obscure spec?
Not BMW 5W-60, just regular multi-weight oil.
Cheers!
More 5 (or "10") W-30 than some obscure spec?
Not BMW 5W-60, just regular multi-weight oil.
Cheers!
Piston Slap, per Deer Slayers question:
Most cars will eventually develop piston slap. It can often also be heard in new cars at startup in cold temperatures.
You will be able to identify it for about 4 blocks after a 0 degree start - assuming you do not warm the car up first.
It sounds like lifter noise, a light rapid clicking sound. This is caused by the rod angularity, during compression the rod is on one side, pushing the piston to one side. Then, after top dead center the rod angle is on the other side and the piston snaps to the other side, making a light ticking sound.
Which is which: Lifter noise - although the frequency rises and falls with throttle application - remains at the same intensity.
Piston slap becomes much more pronounced at large throttle openings due to the increased force.
Since piston clearance decreases rapidly as the engine warms up piston slap disappears usually in the first few blocks of driving.
At one time we only heard it in old, loose cars. With very short piston skirts (read lighter pistons, greater fuel economy)
new engines demonstrate it more. GM V8s in recent year have been the subject of lots of consumer complaints, yet they are still long lived engines.
When you get lots of bore wear, at very high mileage, piston slap becomes quite loud - getting quieter after warmup but never totally going away. At that point the engine is probably burning lots of oil, the compression is probably shot and the engine need rebored!
OK, thats a lot about piston slap, others feel free to add more.
Since I have often driven cars all the way to an overhaul...
by that time the clicking has turned to clattering, and cold startup noise sounds almost like a diesel.
Most cars will eventually develop piston slap. It can often also be heard in new cars at startup in cold temperatures.
You will be able to identify it for about 4 blocks after a 0 degree start - assuming you do not warm the car up first.
It sounds like lifter noise, a light rapid clicking sound. This is caused by the rod angularity, during compression the rod is on one side, pushing the piston to one side. Then, after top dead center the rod angle is on the other side and the piston snaps to the other side, making a light ticking sound.
Which is which: Lifter noise - although the frequency rises and falls with throttle application - remains at the same intensity.
Piston slap becomes much more pronounced at large throttle openings due to the increased force.
Since piston clearance decreases rapidly as the engine warms up piston slap disappears usually in the first few blocks of driving.
At one time we only heard it in old, loose cars. With very short piston skirts (read lighter pistons, greater fuel economy)
new engines demonstrate it more. GM V8s in recent year have been the subject of lots of consumer complaints, yet they are still long lived engines.
When you get lots of bore wear, at very high mileage, piston slap becomes quite loud - getting quieter after warmup but never totally going away. At that point the engine is probably burning lots of oil, the compression is probably shot and the engine need rebored!
OK, thats a lot about piston slap, others feel free to add more.
Since I have often driven cars all the way to an overhaul...
by that time the clicking has turned to clattering, and cold startup noise sounds almost like a diesel.
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Certain engine families are prone to it. Others are not. The tall pistons used in Ford Windsor engines means it doesn't happen. I have NEVER heard a 302 or 351 slap. But they have tall pistons and a very mild R/S ratio, meaning rod angularity is low, so there is very little side-loading.
GM's LSx engines seem to be the most notorious for it?
GM's LSx engines seem to be the most notorious for it?
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