Thinking about how bad vehicles are designed

[anneis]

We have a few industrial engines that go 30,000 to 60,000 hrs before overhaul. These run 24x7, typical 70% or greater load.

Think about the 'average' vehicle going 200,000 km before considered past its prime. If it averages 50 kph combined city and highway, that is only 4,000 hrs run time. If 30 kph average then 6,670 hrs run time.

30,000 hrs on a vehicle at 50 kph would be 1,500,000 km. By then nothing would be left of the drivetrain or body

Auto manufacturers have a pretty good market

 

[salvageyardteen]

industrial engines normally operate at constant rpms and aren't subject to vibrations or large changes in weather conditions.

 

[XS650]

Design a car around an industrial engine that has been sized to give good performance and see how big and heavy it is.

Start with a 300 hp industrial engine, design a power train and chassis structure to handle it and you will have big overweight pig of a low performance car.

 

[Quest]

LOL! Industrial engines are subjected to heavy-duty construction (yes, weight isn't a primary concern on them) and much less frequent thermal cycling to begin with.

Last but not least: most industrial engines are designed to run in a very narrow powerband/rpm range and work hard within that region, whereas automotive engines are designed to run in a wideband/wide rpm range.

Bottomline: it's hard to compare apples with oranges in this case.

 

[anneis]

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Design a car around an industrial engine that has been sized to give good performance and see how big and heavy it is.

Start with a 300 hp industrial engine, design a power train and chassis structure to handle it and you will have big overweight pig of a low performance car.

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Oh yea, the 50's and 60's

 

[Steve S]

Most people don't drive enough. Read about the people with 500,000 miles etc. on their vehicles. It is not the oil, it is how the vehicle is used' lots of miles. For example compare the engine life on an around town semi compared to a line haul semi with the exact engine,trans ,running gear ,cab etc. operated with the same care.Which one will last the longest "engine life"

 

[Steve S]

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We have a few industrial engines that go 30,000 to 60,000 hrs before overhaul. These run 24x7, typical 70% or greater load.

Think about the 'average' vehicle going 200,000 km before considered past its prime. If it averages 50 kph combined city and highway, that is only 4,000 hrs run time. If 30 kph average then 6,670 hrs run time.

30,000 hrs on a vehicle at 50 kph would be 1,500,000 km. By then nothing would be left of the drivetrain or body

Auto manufacturers have a pretty good market

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comsumers are pretty dumb . Drive your car 24/7 and see how long the engine will live.

 

[Chris142]

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Start with a 300 hp industrial engine, design a power train and chassis structure to handle it and you will have big overweight pig of a low performance car.

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Sounds like my old Scout. It was slow to accelerate but the engine still runs today after the body has been scrapped.

 

[anneis]

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comsumers are pretty dumb . Drive your car 24/7 and see how long the engine will live.

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Pls explain what you think would happen if driven 24/7

 

[Quest]

thermal cycle is one of the main contributors engine's wear and tear, while all other things being equal.

 

[alreadygone]

Thinking about how bad vehicles are designed [Re: anneis]


Think you could do any better?

Bob

 

[Steve S]

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comsumers are pretty dumb . Drive your car 24/7 and see how long the engine will live.

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Pls explain what you think would happen if driven 24/7

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The engine will last longer than can be imagined.

 

[Steve S]

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thermal cycle is one of the main contributors engine's wear and tear, while all other things being equal.

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Master

Even 0w/20 won't help.

 

[PandaBear]

What is the point of a 1 million mile engine when the transmission, suspensions, electronics, and interior only last 200k miles and 15 years?

 

[Tornado Red]

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What is the point of a 1 million mile engine when the transmission, suspensions, electronics, and interior only last 200k miles and 15 years?

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Design a good vehicle by starting with an engine that will last 500k miles, then make it easy to service and easy to replace the stuff that breaks. Make changing a waterpump or an alternator a 1-hour job... a clutch or timing belt a 2-hour job. Use a state-of-the-art CAN bus to make it quick and easy to localize electronic problems -- and display problem diagnoses in simple English to the driver, instead of forcing them to have a technician download error codes and translate them.

 

[XS650]

The biggest problem is that for the most part, the people that want cars to last forever aren't the same people that are buying new cars.

15,000 miles year time 30 years = 450,000 miles.

I like old cars and if I had more room would have a couple of them, but no way would I want a 30 year old car (1977)for my primary transportation even if it were in perfect condition.

 

[1sttruck]

My truck has an 'industrial engine', a 3rd gen 5.9L Cummins. I expect 500k out of it, which at 15k miles a year is about 30 years as others noted. It might be the last vehicle that I need to buy for myself.

It has a narrow power band, a manual transmission, solid axles front and rear, and is a base model that is largely devoid of power actuated junk that most seem to find essential these days. It's kind of slow off of the line, being a stick with fairly low lower gears and probably weighing 3 1/2 tons with the canopy and all, but picks up speed nicely once you get going; a friend said that it's surpsingly quick once you build up steam. I get 16 to 18 mpg in town, 18 to 20 on the highway, depending on how much throttle I give it.

Some people ask why I don't want a faster, sportier vehicle, and ask what they think fast is. I drove motorcycles for over 20 years, have over 250k miles on bikes, and my antique 83 Suzuki would do 0 to 60 in under 3 seconds, and 120 mph in the 1/4 mile. Nah, if I want sporty or fast I'd get another 1 liter bike, instead I want the most boring peformance parameter of all - long life :^)

 

[Junior]

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What is the point of a 1 million mile engine when the transmission, suspensions, electronics, and interior only last 200k miles and 15 years?

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Design a good vehicle by starting with an engine that will last 500k miles, then make it easy to service and easy to replace the stuff that breaks. Make changing a waterpump or an alternator a 1-hour job... a clutch or timing belt a 2-hour job. Use a state-of-the-art CAN bus to make it quick and easy to localize electronic problems -- and display problem diagnoses in simple English to the driver, instead of forcing them to have a technician download error codes and translate them.

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And let me guess, you want it to be cheaper too. not gonna happen

 

[Matt_S]

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The biggest problem is that for the most part, the people that want cars to last forever aren't the same people that are buying new cars.

15,000 miles year time 30 years = 450,000 miles.

I like old cars and if I had more room would have a couple of them, but no way would I want a 30 year old car (1977)for my primary transportation even if it were in perfect condition.

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And this is not to mention that automotive technology is constantly changing and people tend to want the latest and greatest stuff. Newer, bigger, better, faster is the consumer anthem these days. There's no point for automakers to make cars that last more than 10 - 15 years when most consumers don't keep them more than 3 - 5 at a stretch.

 

[Kestas]

I gotta agree with Matt. Talk to your average non-car-guy car-buyer with more money than brains and you'll see how they get roped into the marketing ploys used by automakers and their new car dealers. This is more the rule than the exception.

A recent survey shows 1/3 of new car are bought on impulse, ending up with a different car than they intended on buying when they walked into the dealer. Like Jerry Seinfeld once said... "the quality of most cars is judged by how the steering wheel feels in your hands".