Think I have a shot...?

[Brogy]

Last night I was driving, came up to a green arrow on a highway intersection, I was about 20 feet from the turn going i'd say 30 when it turned yellow. I went through the turn, it turned red halfway of me into it, and I kept on going for a mile when a cop pulled me over.

Said I entered the turn red, told him it was yellow, and he said "well I was right there on the grass I saw it". I said I was the one driving, I know it was yellow, and then he replied "well the law says you should have attempted to stop". B.S., if I had stopped i'd have been in the middle of the intersection, no I wasnt speeding the turn was 3 lanes wide going into 4 lanes. I had plenty of room and time to make the turn, it went red about 3 seconds after I went into it, and I was in the turn for another 2 seconds while it was red.

I'm thinking it's just better to pay the ticket, because I know the courts for this type of thing arent innocent until proven guilty, they're just a show and their only intention is to make $$$. And it's my word against a cops.

Also i've heard the rumor about cops having to make a quota by the end of the month, i'm sure it's not true everywhere but I know some places have it in effect, it'd be a real kicker too because it was 3 hours before march 1st.

Only reason I don't want to pay the ticket is because it's $85 and 2 points, that's for something I didn't do, if I were speeding and got caught or I had run a red light i'd be fine with it. And the $85, that's the most expencive ticket i've ever seen. I think the only thing that'll get you a higher ticket is a a hit and run or drowning puppies in a construction zone.

Any advice or ideas?

 

[Aldaris]

Your word against his. You can get a lawyer but that'll cost a lot more than $85.

 

[PRND3L]

You must not have seen many tickets if $85 is the most expensive you've ever seen.

You've got to decide if your time and effort in contesting and still possibly (probably?) losing is worth more than $85 and 2 points.

 

[rpn453]

If I had the time I'd just show up, tell my side of the story, and acknowledge that I have no chance since it's my word against his, but that I'm just doing it based on principle. If the cop writes questionable tickets frequently and everyone in your situation does this, maybe they'd realize the truth. Maybe you'll even get lucky and he'll be a no-show.

The same thing happened to my mother, where she told me she truly believed that it was safer to go than to stop for the yellow light. She even had a witness with her that agreed but still didn't go to court. It really annoyed me that she didn't fight it, because the actual cost of the ticket, after factoring in the effect of points lost over the years in our insurance system, is over $800. I'd rather be mugged by a guy on the street than a cop. I can physically fight back against the guy on the street!

 

[farrarfan1]

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I'd rather be mugged by a guy on the street than a cop. I can physically fight back against the guy on the street!

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If police officers are mugging people on the street in Saskatchewan I'd suggest you move to a safer city.

 

[rpn453]

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I'd rather be mugged by a guy on the street than a cop. I can physically fight back against the guy on the street!

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If police officers are mugging people on the street in Saskatchewan I'd suggest you move to a safer city.

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I've looked into it, but my research indicates there is no utopia.

 

[williar]

The first ticket I got was for something like that. Took it to court. The fine was reduced, but I was still found guilty.

Take it to court, but don't be suprised if you don't win.

 

[Warlord]

Well since I wasn't there I won't say for sure but it seems to me that if you were in the intersection for 2 seconds after it wen't red you probably had time enough to stop. I know for sure we don't have ticket quotas in Canada, it's illegal here. Ask just about anyone on the street though and they'll say that there is because they are trying to make it seem as if the ticket they were issued wasn't deserved. I know people who take every ticket to court and half the time the Police Officer will not show. Its worth a try.

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, why don't some of the fine people in law enforcement here tell him the chinks in the armor when fighting "a pinch"

Pinch: Nailing targets of opportunity when you've gotten feedback on your ticket production.
Implication: You're screwing off since anyone knows you can write tickets for a solid 8 hours. If you haven't done so in 2 weeks ..you're a slacker ..or at least ..slacking.
Reaction: Go and perch yourself at a place where you can harvest the herd with relative ease.
Coreaction: Return to slacking after producing X number of tickets. This will keep the Sgt off your back for awhile as others will become the target of his negative feedback.

Repeat as needed.

 

[ThirdeYe]

I say represent yourself and try to fight it. I'd be more concerned about the points on your record than the fine itself.

 

[farrarfan1]

Gary I know this may come as a complete surprise to you but there are a few officers that are genuinely interested in traffic safety. I know you can't fathom the idea that some police officers actually try to make a difference in their communities by trying to target problem areas with enforcement action, either on their own or at the direction of their commanders. It may also surprise you to know that most cities and states keep track of high accident areas and try to do something to lower the accident rates in those areas. Some officers even volunteer for training at places like Northwestern University Traffic Institute, Texas A&M, Institute of Police Technolgy and Management, and study data provided by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. But you're probably right, it was more than likely just some lazy, worthless, overweight cop trying to stay out of trouble.You're pretty much the expert on how police officers around the country operate based on your disdain for them as evidenced by your answer, both in this case and othersin the past.

 

[obbop]

Grafitti Night in Modesto California back around 1982 or so.

Thousands descend upon the town that the film American Grafitti was based upon.

Around 2 am and a friend and I head for the now-nearly deserted cruising street so as to garner a horde of aluminum cans; anticipated making a couple hundred bucks for our efforts.

Turned onto the street and the cops descended. One walked to a half-full beer can sitting upright on the curb and said my passenger had thrown it.

Huh???!!!!!

Went to court. When the cop doesn't appear I have heard the charge is dismissed. That cop did show. I proceeded to question the cop. It was obvious he was lying as I described the events and asked my questions.

Judge ruled in my favor as that cop scowled and glared. What an immature buffoon.

After signing a paper at a clerk situated to the side of the court room I departed.... thrilled when many present applauded me as I headed for the door.

Shoulda' been a lawyer, I guess but I'm a man of morals.

 

[wantin150]

For those of you who listen to the old urban legends, quotas are ILLEGAL. Period. They do not exist. You might as well say that cops get bonuses for the most tickets or all expense paid trips (this has been tried by the way and very quickly shot down and legally challenged) to the Bahamas. Would you rather pay your local officers to sit back and wait for stuff to happen or would you rather pay them to be proactive? It really isn't a conspiracy. They aren't out to get you or your money. Cops get nada from the tickets they write. The COURTS get most of the fines to help offset operating costs and trial costs for those not willing to admit their guilt.

I'm not dogging on the OP here but taking a right turn at 30? Were you able to turn into the same lane from which you turned? Or, did you, without thinking, apply the brakes and slow before making the turn? If you really were doing 30, 20ft before the turn, the rear end was probably difficult to control. It sometimes amazed me as to how people's recollection changed to fit their story. Once again, not dogging here, just pointing out what I would use against you to convict you.

Spot on Farrarfan1!

 

[MarkC]

"The COURTS get most of the fines to help offset operating costs and trial costs for those not willing to admit their guilt."

This is the kind of attitude that I hate. Why should anyone admit their guilt if they aren't guilty? The situation these days is the opposite of what it's alleged to be; innocent until proven guilty is a joke.

 

[ekpolk]

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"The COURTS get most of the fines to help offset operating costs and trial costs for those not willing to admit their guilt."

This is the kind of attitude that I hate. Why should anyone admit their guilt if they aren't guilty? The situation these days is the opposite of what it's alleged to be; innocent until proven guilty is a joke.

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Ahhh, remember the Salem witch trials? If you pled guilty to being a witch, your plea was gratefully accepted, but since witchcraft was such a serious offense, hang you must. And if you pled not guilty, why of course a witch would deny being a witch, and you're guilty again! Either way, it's the gallows for you!

Alas, sadly, sometimes thinking like this still influences our judges.

Outcome of this case will be dependent in large part upon two factors. First, you've got to draw a reasonable judge who really is willing to consider that some of these folks crying foul and pleading NOT guilty really are innocent. Second, the accused must go in with a reasonable, respectful attitude. The more strident and "outraged" the accused acts, the more likely the judge will blow him off. Without "sucking up," someone in this predicament should at all times conduct him or herself in such a way that even a fractionally nice judge will want to help rather than hurt.

Good luck.

EDIT: oh yeah, one more thing. With respect to the citing officer. Do not under any circumstances attack him, his motives, his anything. Best to take the position that surely he's a decent guy trying to do his job (which is most probably true), and he's simply mistaken in this case.

 

[Brogy]

Cool thanks for the replys, i'll show up in court at least now and see if I can get anything done.

And to clear up some things...

I wasn't blaming the ticket on the end of the month quota thing, was just saying a rumor I heard, and how it'd be funny if that's why this guy got me. no need to attack me for it.

Also, it was a LEFT turn. Imagine a 4 lane highway (that I was turning onto) from another 4 lane highway. It was a big intersection, thus me being in it for so long. And please don't take my estimations as exact facts, I don't know how fast I was going or how long the light was red while I was in the turn, I didn't have my stop watch on me (the one time I forget it too!) I do remember me entering the turn and the light turning red seconds later. And I stayed in my lane, the reason I explained the number of lanes was to show you how big the turn was. Didn't even have to brake, I wasn't speeding.

Also think taking pictures would help? The area where he was sitting, he had a bad angle of the traffic light. If you can even see the light it'd be a little glimmer. I think it's possible he was watching me enter and take the turn, and looked up and saw red.

And thanks ekpolk, that's good advice,. And to other aboves, i'm not saying he was singling me out or whatnot (although he was kinda a jerk, he stood behind me so I had to bend my neck to look at him, and shined his maglight directly into my eyes the entire time I was talking to him) or am I looking to get out of something I did, i'm just saying he was wrong in what he saw and I don't want this ticket if I don't have to get it. Great story too obbop

One more thing, impossible that cops arent motivated by tickets in the least bit way. Every friend I know has gotten ticket for the stupidest things. Broken blinker, he didn't know about it until the cop told him, ticket without question. Going 1 above the speed limit, he was asking to get pulled over. Having one of those pine trees on the rear view mirrors, obstruction of view, ticket, thank #@$%! that cop gave her that ticket or else she might have driven head on to a train! And if tickets really didn't matter then what's the reaction when an entire police station didn't give anyone tickets for an entire month? "good job everyones driving safe"??

 

[beercollector]

I don't think Brogy did any of this stuff especially with the turn, but I hope it helps.

I talked to a traffic officer around here after he stopped a car for running a red right as I entered the intersection. I had to brake and lay on the horn, not that it helped. I pulled over behind his marked SUV and had a little chat when he was through with the red light runner.

I asked him if it was my horn or something else that alerted him to the red light runner. He said that he heard the other car rev just after the light turned yellow, and that he would not have given the citation if the other driver had just coasted through the intersection and I had not already had the green.

His rationalization: if you think yellow means speed up, you get a ticket or worse. It's much safer to coast through the intersection instead of gunning it to avoid being "caught", which can lead to a far worse collision. He stated that he drives around with at least one window down weather permitting to hear for other drivers accellerating at intersections.

At first I didn't agree with the traffic officer and thanked him for ticketing somebody who put my life in danger, I take these things pretty personally sometimes. The more I think about it it makes sense as far as safety on the road goes.

 

[Gary Allan]

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Gary I know this may come as a complete surprise to you but there are a few officers that are genuinely interested in traffic safety.

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Nope ..it doesn't surprise me at all. What would give you that idea?

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I know you can't fathom the idea that some police officers actually try to make a difference in their communities by trying to target problem areas with enforcement action, either on their own or at the direction of their commanders.

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Unfortunately, you're wrong. Sure there are some officers that try and make a difference. What gave you the impression that I thought that ALL officers were screwing off. If you're in a dept of substantial size ..you surely have seen officers use "the pinch" to get the Sgt off their back. If you haven't ..then I'd say that you've got a 100% perfect dept.

How in the world do you think I have this insight into such matters?? Retired PA State Trooper as my best friend, my BIL was a cop ..and many of the police in my community I'm acquainted with. I received a Civic Award for helping the current Chief of Police (he was a corporal at the time) when a whiskey head was bouncing off the garages in the alley way and decided to wrestle with him when it came time to put the cuffs on him.

You're assuming that I'm some "anti-cop". I'm anti-lazy cop ..I'm anti-mean punk that just wants to be a jerk to people and get away with it cop ..and a few others.

YOU SHOULD BE TOO and if you're not ..you're on my list too. So what's your beef with me??

This situation here wasn't in the interest of traffic safety. It was a pinch. If this was a problem intersection ..it was probably a problem at a different time of day ..yet the guy was perched looking for his catch of the day. If we can take the depiction at face value and, for the moment, assume it to be truthful, there was nothing productively gained in this traffic stop. It was marginal at best and surely would have constituted a warning.

I love it when your type send the wife and kids to the root cellar and lock and load before you think about what you're reading. I love that natural 'hang him' mentality ..and the mentality of those who share your blind reactionary tendencies.

 

[farrarfan1]

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Gary I know this may come as a complete surprise to you but there are a few officers that are genuinely interested in traffic safety.

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Nope ..it doesn't surprise me at all. What would give you that idea?

Quote:

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I know you can't fathom the idea that some police officers actually try to make a difference in their communities by trying to target problem areas with enforcement action, either on their own or at the direction of their commanders.

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Unfortunately, you're wrong. Sure there are some officers that try and make a difference. What gave you the impression that I thought that ALL officers were screwing off. If you're in a dept of substantial size ..you surely have seen officers use "the pinch" to get the Sgt off their back. If you haven't ..then I'd say that you've got a 100% perfect dept.

How in the world do you think I have this insight into such matters?? Retired PA State Trooper as my best friend, my BIL was a cop ..and many of the police in my community I'm acquainted with. I received a Civic Award for helping the current Chief of Police (he was a corporal at the time) when a whiskey head was bouncing off the garages in the alley way and decided to wrestle with him when it came time to put the cuffs on him.

You're assuming that I'm some "anti-cop". I'm anti-lazy cop ..I'm anti-mean punk that just wants to be a jerk to people and get away with it cop ..and a few others.

YOU SHOULD BE TOO and if you're not ..you're on my list too. So what's your beef with me??

This situation here wasn't in the interest of traffic safety. It was a pinch. If this was a problem intersection ..it was probably a problem at a different time of day ..yet the guy was perched looking for his catch of the day. If we can take the depiction at face value and, for the moment, assume it to be truthful, there was nothing productively gained in this traffic stop. It was marginal at best and surely would have constituted a warning.

I love it when your type send the wife and kids to the root cellar and lock and load before you think about what you're reading. I love that natural 'hang him' mentality ..and the mentality of those who share your blind reactionary tendencies.

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I read your response to the op's twice trying to see if you were kidding or not. You, nor I, was there when he was stopped but you automatically assumed the officer was "lazy" and the only reason he stopped him was because he had been disciplined by his supervisor for low activity. Yes there are officers that get disciplined for not working hard enough, just like any other profession but why did you assume this one was?

 

[wantin150]

Let me clarify. If you were speeding, and know you were speeding, and went to a full trial, would you not be one of the folks who were wasting money by not admitting guilt? If you ran a red light and hit someone and it was proven that the light was indeed red, would you be one of the ones to waste the courts time by requesting a trial? This is all I mean.

If your guilty, you're guilty. Own up to it. Do waste everyones time. If you honestly feel that you aren't guilty, then fight the charge.