Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict

Status
Not open for further replies.
These results make a lot of sense because you only drove 5K miles over 2 years which means mostly short trips?

If you were racing or have a lead foot, the 5w40's wear numbers would probably be the same as 0w20 or slightly better.
 
Originally Posted By: 4WD
And there were 20's ...



Yup. But the conventional 5W-20's formulated with Group I were awful...

And the reason why 5W-30 was often not recommended in the 80's or not recommended with the caveat about "high speed" highway usage was the same reason, the poor quality of the era's Group I base oils...
 
Originally Posted By: BigD1
Some people claim that Mobil 1 UOA have more iron. Cleaning out what lesser oils leave behind possibly.


That doesn't seem to be as true as it once was, but I do wonder if there is a correlation between (slightly) higher iron numbers and PAO in formulations. I've noticed that Redline seems to show higher iron numbers as well...
 
My the thick oil crowd is in a bit of a tizzy:
PCTV-1770000679-hd.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Nissan101
What if my car recommends 20w50 for my temperature or should i put a 0w20 no matter what.....-_-


No, if you live in a very warm area and your manufacurer recommends 20W50 you should stick with thick oils.

Please do not take OP's post as anything conclusive. He has coolant in the engine oil which he used some sort of quick fix on, then had slightly elevated levels of Ni and Fe on one run of M1 0W40. It is clear OP is biased towards thinner oils being better, and his analysis of his data reflects that.

Theoretically both oils should protect sufficiently from wear under normal operating conditions. The problem is your operating condition is high temperature, and while a modern 0W20 is probably thick enough to leave a functional lubricating film even in your conditions, why risk it?

From "THE ESTIMATION OF LUBRICITY AND VISCOSITY OF ENGINE OILS", which compares wear between different oil weights and syn/semi/dino:
Quote:


All the tested mineral oils, semisynthetic and
synthetic ones are characterized by the similar
resistance to wear. Only Shell Helix Super
15W-40 SJ/CF stands out as it shows the worst
resistance to wear and the highest resistance to
motion.

The progress that took place in the new
generation of engine oils on semisynthetic and
synthetic bases counteracts excessive wear of
elements at variable conditions of work and
simultaneously decreases the resistance to
motion in the whole range of operation.
 
"No, if you live in a very warm area and your manufacurer recommends 20W50 you should stick with thick oils. "

"Please do not take OP's post as anything conclusive. He has coolant in the engine oil which he used some sort of quick fix on, then had slightly elevated levels of Ni and Fe on one run of M1 0W40. It is clear OP is biased towards thinner oils being better, and his analysis of his data reflects that. "

"Theoretically both oils should protect sufficiently from wear under normal operating conditions. The problem is your operating condition is high temperature, and while a modern 0W20 is probably thick enough to leave a functional lubricating film even in your conditions, why risk it?"




I'm not convinced on this statement. The temperatures of the oil and the engine itself will be hotter than the temperature outside. Many drivers use 0w-20 oil in places like Arizona, Florida, Nevada, etc. For normal driving , 0w-20 will do well. If the demands on the engine are hard like tracking, towing, etc then the argument for a thicker grade is plausible.

Pointing out Gohkan's bias (if there actually is one) is overruled as I sensed a bias in your comment towards thick oils.

Am I wrong here? Feel free to correct me.
 
Originally Posted By: PimTac

Many drivers use 0w-20 oil in places like Arizona, Florida, Nevada, etc. For normal driving , 0w-20 will do well. If the demands on the engine are hard like tracking, towing, etc then the argument for a thicker grade is plausible.


Yes, but does the owners manual of their vehicles specify 20W50? Like I said in my other post it's probably no problem running a quality 0W20, I just don't see any meaningful benefit in doing so engine wear wise, so why risk it?

Originally Posted By: PimTac

Pointing out Gohkan's bias (if there actually is one) is overruled as I sensed a bias in your comment towards thick oils.

Am I wrong here? Feel free to correct me.


I just tend to go with what the manufacturer recommends, so OP sort of made an enemy in his bolded statements near the top of his post
smile.gif

I run TGMO 0W20 in my Prius.

I am not an expert on oils at all, I just don't want people to think they will improve engine wear protection by switching to a 0W20. If this was the case it would surely be documented in some sort of scientific study [Edit: and manufacturers would use this actively in marketing!], but I have not been able to find anything of such nature. The papers I found pretty much state that all normal viscosity grades protect the engine sufficiently under normal operating conditions.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Shannow
flow doesn't lubricate...AEHaas never ever could provide any supportive evidence on flow=lubrication, nor could one of his keenest adherants.


In the basic sense of keeping two surfaces from contacting, that's true. But to add beyond that, increased oil flow does help keep the localized oil film temperature down, which in turn keeps the MOFT a little higher to give added wear protection.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: tig1
I used M1 5-20 in an engine calling for 10-40 in 1978. Engine started much better in cold temps and ran smoother as well in all temps.


AND we've been over (and over) that the M1 5W20 was VII free, all basestock, and was more like Redline 5W20 n reality, with it's 2.9HTHS (which some would call "really a 30, including Dr Haas and CATERHAM, in spite of what J300 states)...and that was in an Era when 10W40 had no HTHS minimum, and may of them were woefuly inadequate....which lead to some OEMs decrying 10W40, and denying warranty should such oil be used.

Industry then started investigating "apparent" viscosity in high shear, and assigned 0W, 5W, and 10W 40s the same HTHS minimum of 2.9 as they assigned the 30s...that's how "good" the 10W40s were back then.

And so, when Mobil stated that their 5W20 monograde (no VIIs) gave the same protection as a 10W40, they weren't telling fibs...but they aren't (and we've been over this more than a dozen times) the same measures...and TGMO has nearly nothing to do with M1 5W20 the way it was originally made, in any way that you cut it....


So what. M1 5-20 worked great for me in my 1978 Dodge in 1978 and M1 0-20 works great in my 2007 Fords today. What's your point?
 
"Many drivers use 0w-20 oil in places like Arizona, Florida, Nevada, etc. For normal driving , 0w-20 will do well. If the demands on the engine are hard like tracking, towing, etc then the argument for a thicker grade is plausible. "


"Yes, but does the owners manual of their vehicles specify 20W50? Like I said in my other post it's probably no problem running a quality 0W20, I just don't see any meaningful benefit in doing so engine wear wise, so why risk it?"




For the most part the recommendations for heavier grades are from countries other than the US. The CAFE regulations here push the 20 weights while the same engine in Australia for example would have a recommendation for a much heavier oil.
 
Last edited:
I am with the OP. I used Magnatec 0w20 and got 2ppm of iron in 4k miles. Then I used Amalie EURO 5w40 and got 17ppm of iron in 4k miles. Y'all can cry all you want about variables and uncontrolled environment, but these are real life results and you can't just ignore them because it was not done by a lab. Guess what? Your car will spend it's life on the roads, not in the lab. Therefore the testing is valid since it was performed in the real world, real time, real roads. 0w20 wins.
 
Originally Posted By: Vlad_the_Russian
I am with the OP. I used Magnatec 0w20 and got 2ppm of iron in 4k miles. Then I used Amalie EURO 5w40 and got 17ppm of iron in 4k miles.


Do you know whether that was due to wear, or chemistry on all the exposed ferrous components inside the engine ?

If so, how ?
 
I had a UOA done recently on the 2012 Camry 4 cyl with TGMO 0w20. After 10k miles, 5 ppm of Iron. Prob a 50/50 mix of city/hwy driving.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

JavierH19
0w-8 has gone mainstream. M1 AFE 0w-8.
2 3 4
Replies
78
Views
4K
MolaKule
Al
High or Low Viscosity.
2
Replies
31
Views
1K
Triple_Se7en
R
Motul 8100 0w-20: Eco-Lite vs Eco-Clean (or anything else)? For Citroen C1 (Toyota Aygo)
Replies
11
Views
921
vinu_neuro
D
Does the oil brand actually matter? Is this all just hyperbole?
2 3
Replies
49
Views
6K
wareze
Redhawk454
0w-30/5w-30 in a 2024 crosstrek and subaru timing chains
3 4 5
Replies
89
Views
9K
Redhawk454
Back
Top