"The Real Problem with the American Auto Industry"

[DejaVue]

Originally Posted by Rmay635703

SAE standards are surprisingly simple as there is only one standard
a set of 16 wrenches and you can work on anything ever made.

Metric you need triple that number of tools as there are 6 primary metric standards just for nuts and bolts,
Add to that the nut and bolt need a different wrench size,
thread fit, pitch and torque values are all over the map on metric

And then if the vehicle is European, you need metric AND a whole bunch of torx drivers.

Anyway, "the real problem with the American Auto Industry" is sometimes very apparent. Such as when Ford gets sued because it can't make a lugnut that doesn't swell and deform.

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted by wemay
https://cei.org/2013/07/29/empire-of-rust-how-the-uaw-killed-detroit

Check your sources. This one is another typical right wing biased, anti-union misinformation mill.

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted by cjcride
Originally Posted by Cujet
I'm sorry but the "so called" cheap gas in the USA is simply a normal price for gas. The confiscatory taxation in other locations Simply drives people into specific vehicle types. Those vehicle types are not favored by American drivers. They never have been.

Bang on. In most places there is too much tax on gasoline. Look at France.

That and our country isn't set up for mass transit. Too spread out compared to Europe.

 

[Silverado12]

It looks like Japanese and other foreign companies aren't paying for their retirees (yet) because they're relatively new in the USA. It's for now unfair competition. Am I the only one here who hasn't had any issues with my American cars? I had an old Cavalier which is still in the family I would put up against anything foreign for reliability. That's just one example.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by Silverado12
It looks like Japanese and other foreign companies aren't paying for their retirees (yet) because they're relatively new in the USA. It's for now unfair competition. Am I the only one here who hasn't had any issues with my American cars? I had an old Cavalier which is still in the family I would put up against anything foreign for reliability. That's just one example.



Probably because their employees have 401k plans instead of company pensions which are going out of style. Nothing wrong with that.

The Big 2 along with the UAW are slowly making themselves obsolete.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by Silverado12
It looks like Japanese and other foreign companies aren't paying for their retirees (yet) because they're relatively new in the USA. It's for now unfair competition. Am I the only one here who hasn't had any issues with my American cars? I had an old Cavalier which is still in the family I would put up against anything foreign for reliability. That's just one example.



Probably because their employees have 401k plans instead of company pensions which are going out of style. Nothing wrong with that.

The Big 2 along with the UAW are slowly making themselves obsolete.


It's a race to the bottom, why pay people a wage they can actually live on and support a family with when they can build it in the south with $12/hr temp labor.

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted by dishdude


It's a race to the bottom, why pay people a wage they can actually live on and support a family with when they can build it in the south with $12/hr temp labor.


Pay $12hr in Mexico and get top tier labor full benefits and excellent pay with happy people.

 

[Kurtatron]

This stuff does make me nervous, working in the motor city and all. I think it would be sad to see the big 3 go under, considering their long history. I hope they don't, but I do agree that they need to get their act together and make solid cars. Ford was just starting to get somewhere with the fusion. Not to mention the reliability reports of the panther platform. A shame they are not continuing that opportunity. I am saving my pennies for the next downturn, just in case I lose my job.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by Traction
Seems to me, they are always trying to design, build , and sell cars to people that know NOTHING about cars. Sad, since it's mostly the consumer's fault.



It really does not matter. It's a dead industry.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by Kurtatron
This stuff does make me nervous, working in the motor city and all. I think it would be sad to see the big 3 go under, considering their long history. I hope they don't, but I do agree that they need to get their act together and make solid cars. Ford was just starting to get somewhere with the fusion. Not to mention the reliability reports of the panther platform. A shame they are not continuing that opportunity. I am saving my pennies for the next downturn, just in case I lose my job.

You are a smart man. Not about losing your job; I hope you don't.
Saving ROCKS and will pay off in the long run.
Bravo!

 

[ediamiam]

US car manufacturers had their heyday in the 25 years following the end of WWII. Then emissions caught up in the 70's and high fuel costs. Hence, the smaller European and Japanese cars made inroads with their fledgling car industry making huge leaps and bounds in quality and drivability in the 80's. The 90s saw the luxury cars from the foreign brands once they started hitting their stride. Meanwhile, old Detroit is saddled with huge legacy costs and Ford no longer has a better idea.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by Vikas
Man, the guy tells us about his American car and it is Buick Encore! The very first Google hit "The Buick Encore is assembled at the GM Korea plant in Bupyeong, South Korea and marketed in North America."

With customers like that, no wonder American car industry is in trouble.

After four pages of diatribe, nobody even bothered to notice that irony on BITOG proving that most respondents here use their rear end to sprout garbage.

Just in before the eventual moderator lock!




Now that you've had your say, it would have been good to reference to what you were speaking of.

It is this BS that American consumer due to patriotism has to buy American. However, it does not work other way around, and that is that American companies should also have patriotic attitude. It's you know that BS: what is good for business it is good for America.
Here is an example. I have two cars and two different car seats. When my kid was about to switch from that small "carry on" seat to actual child car seat, I bought one Recaro since I heard they are big. So, it fitted in my BMW but was too big for Tiguan. So, I get Graco seat for Tiguan.
Now this here is why this "buy American" is all BS. Recaro is German company and I paid really good, very comfortable seat $265. My kid loves it, sleeps like baby should sleep. Did this summer 5,114 mile trip in BMW, with some legs long some 800 miles in a day. Graco, a cheap plastic and textile seat with some awkward seating position I paid $245, so $20 cheaper than Recaro. Graco is American company, based in ATL. Well, Recaro is Made in USA, but Graco in China. WHo the [censored] is fool here? So Recaro can make much, MUCH better seat in USA, for only $20 more, but Graco cannot?
Next kid s on the way, and it ain't going to be Graco.



Great post here edyvw... That is a huge part of the problem.

 

[4WD]

Did not know we had a problem with Americans buying from American companies - surely not a problem here - but this bitter crowd just loves the same thread at least twice a week ...
.

 

[bbhero]

Well US companies who out source every job elsewhere... Then bring it here... Sell it here... A "US" company... It's a farce. And that is not a good thing. Make here... Sell here. Real US companies do that. Not fake ones. This problem has grown for the past five decades...

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Rmay635703
BMW Proudly built in the USA by robots


Like everyone else, but somebody must service/maintain those robots.

In any case the automobile industry as a whole is in trouble. The writing was on the wall when car loans with terms of over 5 years appeared. The younger buyer of today is more likely to lease and it's one short jump to on-demand rental. BMW for example is market testing a monthly rental program where different tiers give you access to a different array of vehicles. IIRC Hyundai/Kia is toying with the same thing. Subscription services are already becoming the norm with some features.

One other thing are state franchise laws. In the US it's very difficult for a manufacturer to cull the herd of dealerships, never mind that fact that they MUST sell vehicles via dealerships. Now that is 100% Grade A American BS.


I agree but the "built in USA by robots" comment about BMW is laughable.
Its no different then any other automaker, the one with the best technology and product wins and why the South Carolina plant is BMWs largest plant in the world and largest exporter of vehicles in the entire USA.
If the Amercian Companies could invest in those "robots" like that others, they wouldnt be almost out of business and would have a better product. However the Americans have caught up and have just as many "robots" but it was the unions of decades past that prevented the "robots" that almost put them out of business many times.

 

[4WD]

What is your point ? ... could not care less what you drive or think of what I drive ...

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Kurtatron
This stuff does make me nervous, working in the motor city and all. I think it would be sad to see the big 3 go under, considering their long history. I hope they don't, but I do agree that they need to get their act together and make solid cars. Ford was just starting to get somewhere with the fusion. Not to mention the reliability reports of the panther platform. A shame they are not continuing that opportunity. I am saving my pennies for the next downturn, just in case I lose my job.

Some time ago, before I landed to the New World, I was test driver for some small car magazine in Europe.
Anyway, we had on a test this Ford Mondeo equipped with 2.2 TDCI engine with 185hp and I believe some 270-280lb-ft of torque. Great handling, 6-speed MT. So I was pushing that sucker to some 240km/h and I saw far behind me a car fallowing me, but cannot catch up. Anyway at tool booth that car catches up and then I saw red/blue flashing lights behind windshield. It was police interceptor VW GTI. So this Ford had all markings that it is Ford test vehicle etc. Police officer says to me: dude, you are not in trouble. Just wanna know what the [censored] is under that hood? I am trying to catch up with you last 20km.
That vehicle never made to the US. Ford kept it in Europe.
Current Fusion is newer generation of that Mondeo, but again, we do not get all the goodies that are available in Europe. Mondeo in Europe has reputation of great handling vehicle for decent price. Ford can do it. But, I really cannot figure out some decision making process and marketing.

 

[4WD]

They seem willing to live or die off the F150 and super duty pickups ...

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted by edyvw

Of course it is taxation, roads, maintenance do not pay for itself. That is why American roads are somewhere on par with Gambia's.


Note to readers:

As a world traveler, the above statement is utterly incorrect. In fact, the USA is #9 in road quality of all 196 countries worldwide.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by Silverado12
It looks like Japanese and other foreign companies aren't paying for their retirees (yet) because they're relatively new in the USA. It's for now unfair competition. Am I the only one here who hasn't had any issues with my American cars? I had an old Cavalier which is still in the family I would put up against anything foreign for reliability. That's just one example.



Probably because their employees have 401k plans instead of company pensions which are going out of style. Nothing wrong with that.

The Big 2 along with the UAW are slowly making themselves obsolete.


Pensions from a mathematical perspective are impossible to sustain but there are always the lucky ones who collect for their retirement years before the hard decisions are made.