"The Real Problem with the American Auto Industry"

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by edyvw

Of course it is taxation, roads, maintenance do not pay for itself. That is why American roads are somewhere on par with Gambia's.


Note to readers:

As a world traveler, the above statement is utterly incorrect. In fact, the USA is #9 in road quality of all 196 countries worldwide.

What is measurement of road quality? Go to any EU country and their HWY system is of much higher quality.
But, let's say someone calculated number of potholes in countries and took into consideration all other variables, we are still largest economy in the world, but have mediocre roads.


The US has vast areas of low population spanned by a network of interstate highways that will allow you to drive easily and safely just about anywhere. You can easily do a thousand mile day if you're well rested as I have a few times.
I'd fly a thousand miles rather than driving it every time but when we were young and impecunious, we'd drive it.
No EU country has the kind of distances we have here and no EU country has as extensive a network of four lane divided highways as do the more populous US states.
Road quality is a mixed bag both here and in the EU.
You cannot make a blanket statement about the roads on either side of the Atlantic.
Europe does have a well developed and heavily subsidized passenger rail network as well as confiscatory fuel taxes that encourage people to use it or one of the cheap airlines rather than driving, subjecting the roads to less wear and tear than what we see here in the land of reasonably priced fuel.

 

[4WD]

Oh now you had so show your assumptions about Texas … Texas was doing fine until your people put a 27 year old 2013 citizen in charge of Harris county … and the emergency procedures …

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by 4WD
Oh now you had so show your assumptions about Texas … Texas was doing fine until your people put a 27 year old 2013 citizen in charge of Harris county … and the emergency procedures …

LoL, assumptions? The biggest socialist state in the country. For every dollar it sends to federal govt. gets $1.12 back, and still cannot get things right.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by edyvw

Of course it is taxation, roads, maintenance do not pay for itself. That is why American roads are somewhere on par with Gambia's.


Note to readers:

As a world traveler, the above statement is utterly incorrect. In fact, the USA is #9 in road quality of all 196 countries worldwide.

What is measurement of road quality? Go to any EU country and their HWY system is of much higher quality.
But, let's say someone calculated number of potholes in countries and took into consideration all other variables, we are still largest economy in the world, but have mediocre roads.


The US has vast areas of low population spanned by a network of interstate highways that will allow you to drive easily and safely just about anywhere. You can easily do a thousand mile day if you're well rested as I have a few times.
I'd fly a thousand miles rather than driving it every time but when we were young and impecunious, we'd drive it.
No EU country has the kind of distances we have here and no EU country has as extensive a network of four lane divided highways as do the more populous US states.
Road quality is a mixed bag both here and in the EU.
You cannot make a blanket statement about the roads on either side of the Atlantic.
Europe does have a well developed and heavily subsidized passenger rail network as well as confiscatory fuel taxes that encourage people to use it or one of the cheap airlines rather than driving, subjecting the roads to less wear and tear than what we see here in the land of reasonably priced fuel.

That is true, but still not excuse for horrid roads in many cities, states etc. We too subsidize a lot of branches of economy, it's not like we are not doing it, a lot!

 

[4WD]

Glad you don't like it ...
BTW ... sure get different rankings (your claim) when looked up ...

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by 4WD
I'm in many of EU countries often - in one now - huge mix of road quality - but I understand you hate everything about the USA and long for Croatia ...

LOL, what criticism has to do with hate?
But I do understand that you like someone else thinking for you. Not uncommon in TX these days.



Ahhh yeah that goes both ways Captain

Just in other geographic areas

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted by edyvw

That is true, but still not excuse for horrid roads in many cities, states etc. We too subsidize a lot of branches of economy, it's not like we are not doing it, a lot!


Where are all of these horrid roads you write of?
We've traveled throughout the US and have rarely seen them.
If European roads are so uniformly superior, then how do you explain the existence of cars like the air/oil suspended Citroens and the W123, both of which were designed to inhale bad roads while still maintaining excellent ride quality?
Two of the distinguishing features of the better class Euro cars have been their structural rigidity and their ability to maintain a supple ride over bad surfaces. I doubt that this was done for the benefit of residents of the US.

 

[wemay]

I can show you some pretty bad stretches of I-95 down here. Horrid? Maybe not, but bad nonetheless.

 

[PimTac]

No doubt you can go anywhere and find a road that is sub par. There are too many factors involved, weather being a big one. Look at the all the roads that need repairs after winter.

Here in WA state we had a bridge close to us that shook whenever any heavy vehicle drove over it. Not comforting when you are waiting in traffic. It did that for years but just finally got replaced.

I'm sure in Europe there are plenty of sub par roads.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by PimTac
No doubt you can go anywhere and find a road that is sub par. There are too many factors involved, weather being a big one. Look at the all the roads that need repairs after winter.

Here in WA state we had a bridge close to us that shook whenever any heavy vehicle drove over it. Not comforting when you are waiting in traffic. It did that for years but just finally got replaced.

I'm sure in Europe there are plenty of sub par roads.


Up here in Ontario one highway that has held up surprisingly well is the 115, but primarily the sections that were done in concrete. The government ran out of money and finished it in asphalt and those sections have had to be redone several times since I was a kid. The concrete sections are still original AFAIK.

Our 400-series highways are concrete base with an asphalt topper that gets replaced every few years. This appears to be a reasonable compromise between ride comfort and durability. They let it get pretty bad before they replace the topper though, at least on the 401. We have an insanely expensive toll highway called the 407 that has a compressed gravel base unlike the 401. It's being redone but it has not held up anywhere near as well as the 401. The gravel base heaves and ruts unlike the concrete, so it's a bit disgusting that we pay a premium to drive on a highway that rapidly decays in such a manner.

 

[Nyogtha]

In Louisiana it's the plastic elastic soil that's an issue instead of freeze / thaw cycles. Different places have different issues regarding road construction & maintenance.

 

[4WD]

Always wondered when they'd do it the other way and now I'm seeing it in the Houston area.
They build the road base, then apply and pack a thick asphalt layer. Now the rebar and spacers sit near perfect and then a thick layer of concrete is poured and grooved

No expansion gaps … smooth and quiet

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by 4WD
Always wondered when they'd do it the other way and now I'm seeing it in the Houston area.
They build the road base, then apply and pack a thick asphalt layer. Now the rebar and spacers sit near perfect and then a thick layer of concrete is poured and grooved

No expansion gaps … smooth and quiet


Some old school photos of when they laid the 401:

First I've heard of the technique you've mentioned, interested to see how the Asphalt base holds up.

 

[4WD]

Neat pictures … always like looking back in time …

On the reversed layers … It's all so thick and so much well installed rebar I'm thinking it's made to last … the grooved concrete is great in the rain and the light color is cooler in summer … some say better on the headlights …

Of course we don't freeze often or for long so not likely the over riding concern …

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by edyvw

That is true, but still not excuse for horrid roads in many cities, states etc. We too subsidize a lot of branches of economy, it's not like we are not doing it, a lot!


Where are all of these horrid roads you write of?
We've traveled throughout the US and have rarely seen them.
If European roads are so uniformly superior, then how do you explain the existence of cars like the air/oil suspended Citroens and the W123, both of which were designed to inhale bad roads while still maintaining excellent ride quality?
Two of the distinguishing features of the better class Euro cars have been their structural rigidity and their ability to maintain a supple ride over bad surfaces. I doubt that this was done for the benefit of residents of the US.

What is bad road? You are mentioning Citroen, last time I was in Paris, which was in March/April, what you arguing is much more fitting for I95 or Chicago, not Paris.
Structural rigidity? Hmmm, there is a thing that Europeans pay attention too, and it is called: curve. As Jeremy Clarkson said when he was testing first Cadillac CTS: Let's see how this thing goes through mortal enemy of American cars: curve.
Here is argument black or white. Bad roads exist everywhere. However, point is that we are still largest economy in the world, and yet our infrastructure in need of bad repairs. Brings back several things that we have spent money on instead of infrastructure.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by edyvw

That is true, but still not excuse for horrid roads in many cities, states etc. We too subsidize a lot of branches of economy, it's not like we are not doing it, a lot!


Where are all of these horrid roads you write of?
We've traveled throughout the US and have rarely seen them.
If European roads are so uniformly superior, then how do you explain the existence of cars like the air/oil suspended Citroens and the W123, both of which were designed to inhale bad roads while still maintaining excellent ride quality?
Two of the distinguishing features of the better class Euro cars have been their structural rigidity and their ability to maintain a supple ride over bad surfaces. I doubt that this was done for the benefit of residents of the US.

What is bad road? You are mentioning Citroen, last time I was in Paris, which was in March/April, what you arguing is much more fitting for I95 or Chicago, not Paris.
Structural rigidity? Hmmm, there is a thing that Europeans pay attention too, and it is called: curve. As Jeremy Clarkson said when he was testing first Cadillac CTS: Let's see how this thing goes through mortal enemy of American cars: curve.
Here is argument black or white. Bad roads exist everywhere. However, point is that we are still largest economy in the world, and yet our infrastructure in need of bad repairs. Brings back several things that we have spent money on instead of infrastructure.


I have yet to be in an American car that can't corner. Obviously there are some that do it better. They tend to have stiffer suspension and ride much harsher though. Old stereotype is old. And unless you're in the mountains, most of the roads are straight as can be. Why would one buy a canyon carver to drive in a straight line at 45-50?

 

[4WD]

Don't exactly want a ZL1 as a daily driver just because it's fast and corners ... Can't carry much from Home Depot ...

 

[alarmguy]

I would suggest that it is the dream of people around the world to be able to travel American Roads from coast to coast
No other country in the world has the network of roads that we have, no other country has the vast amount of paved roads that we have, by far, our interstate system is in fine shape.

Is it the best? Maybe or maybe not but its the largest by far and i rather live here in the USA and be able to venture out over a life time of traveling the roads in this country, north, south, east and west, Alaska too! .... then stuck to a few super nice ones in another country.

 

[4WD]

Get your motor runnin'
Head out on the highway
Lookin' for adventure
And whatever comes our way
Yeah Darlin' go make it happen
Take the world in a love embrace
Fire all of your guns at once and
Explode into space

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by edyvw

That is true, but still not excuse for horrid roads in many cities, states etc. We too subsidize a lot of branches of economy, it's not like we are not doing it, a lot!


Where are all of these horrid roads you write of?
We've traveled throughout the US and have rarely seen them.
If European roads are so uniformly superior, then how do you explain the existence of cars like the air/oil suspended Citroens and the W123, both of which were designed to inhale bad roads while still maintaining excellent ride quality?
Two of the distinguishing features of the better class Euro cars have been their structural rigidity and their ability to maintain a supple ride over bad surfaces. I doubt that this was done for the benefit of residents of the US.

What is bad road? You are mentioning Citroen, last time I was in Paris, which was in March/April, what you arguing is much more fitting for I95 or Chicago, not Paris.
Structural rigidity? Hmmm, there is a thing that Europeans pay attention too, and it is called: curve. As Jeremy Clarkson said when he was testing first Cadillac CTS: Let's see how this thing goes through mortal enemy of American cars: curve.
Here is argument black or white. Bad roads exist everywhere. However, point is that we are still largest economy in the world, and yet our infrastructure in need of bad repairs. Brings back several things that we have spent money on instead of infrastructure.


I have yet to be in an American car that can't corner. Obviously there are some that do it better. They tend to have stiffer suspension and ride much harsher though. Old stereotype is old. And unless you're in the mountains, most of the roads are straight as can be. Why would one buy a canyon carver to drive in a straight line at 45-50?

You mentioned Citroen W123, which is way back.
Yes, American cars can corner, sort of.