The Next Kia EV6 GT

[Torrid]

Sure if you can.

Too bad the 800V network(s) blows chunks.
There is a gigantic difference in the number, reliability, and location of these vs. tesla superchargers.
These are often located quite far from the cloverleaf.
Lots of these are uncovered and have external screens & buttons and often card readers that are out of order, and have scattered ownership requiring apps and accounts with multiple vendors.

What I see when I pass these on a 100+ degree day are cars with their doors open charging.

While there's more Superchargers than 800V options here, there are 800V in most of the vital spots I go to. I would use them if that's the car I had and I live in a small area surrounded by rural areas. I wouldn't say it's too much extra effort, but I don't do much public charging anyway.

 

[UncleDave]

While there's more Superchargers than 800V options here, there are 800V in most of the vital spots I go to. I would use them if that's the car I had and I live in a small area surrounded by rural areas. I wouldn't say it's too much extra effort, but I don't do much public charging anyway.

Out here they are typically in separate locations with superchargers being optimally located and covered in many cases.

I dig the cars, the HK lineup of EV's are great vehicles - far more so than their gas counterparts.
Taking 15K spigots off my availability list pulls them out of the running for me.

I totally get WS6 or some other person may not care or even be affected by this - but I would be.

I ran my normal route using CCS and this is the type of thing that I see here in the West - a charger in a wal mart parking lot vs a dedicated lot for charging. The spigots for this route are combined EV go and EA.

 

[Ws6]

The manufacturers thought it was important enough to switch or add NACS.
Ease of charging everywhere is more than a "perk" to me and most people.

A generic pairing of a given car at a given place at X voltage is one thing.

A tesla on the road navigating to superchargers is way more advanced than anyone.
The interface let you know the status the stations/spigots on your route whats open, broken, in use and where or how long you might have to wait if you do. You can get some of that on a better route planner, but it's not as slick.

I think the whole market will go 800V at some time I think I heard the V4 superchargers are good for 1KV which the trucks will absorb and love at some point.

Eventually as more NACS chargers exist, it will become an advantage, but for now, it's not, for me, as NACS isn't anything special. CCS is more prevalent in the Midwest, or prevalent enough that it doesn't matter, anyway.

 

[Ws6]

Out here they are typically in separate locations with superchargers being optimally located and covered in many cases.

I dig the cars, the HK lineup of EV's are great vehicles - far more so than their gas counterparts.
Taking 15K spigots off my availability list pulls them out of the running for me.

I totally get WS6 or some other person may not care or even be affected by this - but I would be.

I ran my normal route using CCS and this is the type of thing that I see here in the West - a charger in a wal mart parking lot vs a dedicated lot for charging. The spigots for this route are combined EV go and EA.


View attachment 251804

Same, which is convenient as I like to get a snack or something.

 

[UncleDave]

Same, which is convenient as I like to get a snack or something.

I prefer stand alone chargers near a place I can get a snack vs. a mixed use parking lot where I'm fighting 2 separate crowds vying for a charger.

I find shoppers are more likely to run past 80% while they shop whereas travelers are eager to get going again and bail as soon as they can make it to the next charger.

 

[UncleDave]

Eventually as more NACS chargers exist, it will become an advantage, but for now, it's not, for me, as NACS isn't anything special. CCS is more prevalent in the Midwest, or prevalent enough that it doesn't matter, anyway.

When you say CCS is more prevalent are you talking about CCS1 or 2 or just generically calling both CCS?

 

[Torrid]

Out here they are typically in separate locations with superchargers being optimally located and covered in many cases.

I dig the cars, the HK lineup of EV's are great vehicles - far more so than their gas counterparts.
Taking 15K spigots off my availability list pulls them out of the running for me.

I totally get WS6 or some other person may not care or even be affected by this - but I would be.

I ran my normal route using CCS and this is the type of thing that I see here in the West - a charger in a wal mart parking lot vs a dedicated lot for charging. The spigots for this route are combined EV go and EA.


View attachment 251804

One of the locations I have 350kW chargers are in the parking lot of a Walmart and there's a lot of food around. The Superchargers are across the street in another shopping lot. They tend to be close by each other, but usually not in the same parking lot. I'm not as well versed on the CCS chargers, but I'm aware of a number of their locations due to PlugShare though I only route to Superchargers anyway with owning Teslas.

I will say the random charger location when needed has helped me find some interesting food spots. I've yet to have a situation where there's nothing around, though I'm sure it happens. I think it's fair to say Superchargers are easier for Tesla drivers anyway and 800V might take a hint more effort, but I'm sure Hyundai will route directly to them just as a Tesla does to the Supercharger.

This was my favorite so far. I found this place in Kenosha when I stopped to charge after picking up the Model Y. The Supercharger was in the parking lot behind the restaurant near a Woodman's and Costco. I can't remember which, I just stopped to charge and eat.
https://madroostercafe.com/

 

[Ws6]

I prefer stand alone chargers near a place I can get a snack vs. a mixed use parking lot where I'm fighting 2 separate crowds vying for a charger.

I find shoppers are more likely to run past 80% while they shop whereas travelers are eager to get going again and bail as soon as they can make it to the next charger.

I have never waited to charge, nor has any "fighting crowds" been an issue in any capacity.

 

[UncleDave]

I have never waited to charge, nor has any "fighting crowds" been an issue in any capacity.

That's awesome. I dont think the midwest has anywhere near the EV penetration that California does though. (?)

Even in my borrowing/ trading EV's for trucks in the city I've waited in mall parking lots and been "iced out" by people parking in charging stalls in the holiday season. This was before the more advanced reporting or I probably wouldnt have gone in to begin with.

The only time I've waited on the road was for a brief period on a high travel weekend.
I think I waited 10 min on a labor day weekend.
Everyone was orderly and it seemed no one stayed more than 15-20 min.

 

[Ws6]

That's awesome. I dont think the midwest has anywhere near the EV penetration that California does though. (?)

Even in my borrowing/ trading EV's for trucks in the city I've waited in mall parking lots and been "iced out" by people parking in charging stalls in the holiday season. This was before the more advanced reporting or I probably wouldnt have gone in to begin with.

The only time I've waited on the road was for a brief period on a high travel weekend.
I think I waited 10 min on a labor day weekend.
Everyone was orderly and it seemed no one stayed more than 15-20 min.

I've never yet waited. So far I've only found one station down. CCS has been fine on my travels, and of course at home doesn't matter.

 

[Torrid]

That's awesome. I dont think the midwest has anywhere near the EV penetration that California does though. (?)

Even in my borrowing/ trading EV's for trucks in the city I've waited in mall parking lots and been "iced out" by people parking in charging stalls in the holiday season. This was before the more advanced reporting or I probably wouldnt have gone in to begin with.

The only time I've waited on the road was for a brief period on a high travel weekend.
I think I waited 10 min on a labor day weekend.
Everyone was orderly and it seemed no one stayed more than 15-20 min.

We definitely do have it better than higher populated areas even if we're not flush with chargers. They're available when you get there. Surprisingly I'll see another 2-3 cars charging when I show up at one.

 

[Ws6]

When you say CCS is more prevalent are you talking about CCS1 or 2 or just generically calling both CCS?

Ermmm...plugs that fit my car and charge at 150kw or more. 150kw in an EV6 is still a low 20 minute 20-80 because the curve is just flat pretty much. True, a 350 will get us there in under 20 minutes, but it's not "twice as fast" due to area under curve.

 

[UncleDave]

Ermmm...plugs that fit my car and charge at 150kw or more. 150kw in an EV6 is still a low 20 minute 20-80 because the curve is just flat pretty much. True, a 350 will get us there in under 20 minutes, but it's not "twice as fast" due to area under curve.

Uhhhh......I agree 350 will not be twice as fast at 150 - but it will make a significant difference in the first 15 minutes in a stop.

350 is all the power that ALL the benchmarks for the 800V cars are done on so the car will NOT deliver the trip times you see on line or in tool like ABRP on a 150.

Published comparisons like Out Of Specs 10% challenge, and Borns 1000KM challenge - would see the 800V cars fall way down the list if they used 150's.

 

[Ws6]

Uhhhh......I agree 350 will not be twice as fast at 150 - but it will make a significant difference in the first 15 minutes in a stop.

350 is all the power that ALL the benchmarks for the 800V cars are done on so the car will NOT deliver the trip times you see on line or in tool like ABRP on a 150.

Published comparisons like Out Of Specs 10% challenge, and Borns 1000KM challenge - would see the 800V cars fall way down the list if they used 150's.

On a 350, I charge for about 15-18min. On a 150, about 22-24min. It's not a huge deal.

 

[wemay]

The sad part is I really like Jeremy Clarkson. He's just not right about everything.

I have a hard time with 1. It's hard to be good on both 400V and 800V in most cases. I'd still prefer an 800V system, but as long as Tesla sticks with 400V for most of their cars, there isn't much push for 800V charging across the board. I would probably stick with 350kW chargers when available for public charging if I had a Kia/Hyundai EV.

I liked Jeremy Clarkson too, until his shtick wore off on me.

 

[UncleDave]

On a 350, I charge for about 15-18min. On a 150, about 22-24min. It's not a huge deal.

How big a deal it is or isnt is entirely dependent of the persons perception of it, and who is doing the comparing.

To you, and I, I'd agree, it really isn't a big deal, although on a 4-5 stop trip it starts to add up.

To an EV hater it's absolutely unacceptable to spend more than 5 minute in total, much less add 5 more. Remember they never use bathrooms, eat, or go into a mart for a drink or snack.

It makes a marked difference in timed events.
In a comparison between architectures it basically guarantees 800 is slower than 4.
In something like the out of spec reviews 10% challenge its worth half a dozen or more spaces down the chart.
They already give the 800 Volt cars a flyer on the 45 sec to -1 Min handshake time.

 

[Torrid]

How big a deal it is or isnt is entirely dependent of the persons perception of it and who is doing the comparing.

To you, and I, id agree - it really isn't a big deal, although on a 4-5 stop trip it starts to add up.

To an EV hater it's absolutely unacceptable to spend more than 5 minute in total, much less add 5 more. Remember they never use bathrooms, eat, or go into a mart for a drink or snack.

It makes a marked difference in timed events.
In a comparison between architectures it basically guarantees 800 is slower than 4.
In something like the out of spec reviews 10% challenge its worth half a dozen or more spaces down the chart.
They are already give the 800 Volt cars a flyer on the 45Sec to -1 Min handshake time.

I land on the non issue part as well, but my use barely has me touching public charging. So far I've only public charged once so far in a month of ownership. I have a feeling my use will be slightly sporadic just because I do get some odd work situations at times. I don't see myself hitting 4-5 stops in the course of a trip. Even then I'm well aware I'm a bit more forgiving for a bit of charging time over the "I can get gas in less than 5 minutes" crowd.

 

[Ws6]

How big a deal it is or isnt is entirely dependent of the persons perception of it, and who is doing the comparing.

To you, and I, I'd agree, it really isn't a big deal, although on a 4-5 stop trip it starts to add up.

To an EV hater it's absolutely unacceptable to spend more than 5 minute in total, much less add 5 more. Remember they never use bathrooms, eat, or go into a mart for a drink or snack.

It makes a marked difference in timed events.
In a comparison between architectures it basically guarantees 800 is slower than 4.
In something like the out of spec reviews 10% challenge its worth half a dozen or more spaces down the chart.
They already give the 800 Volt cars a flyer on the 45 sec to -1 Min handshake time.

The performance aspect of the 800V system makes up for it though, IMO. For example, I get around 80-100kw of regen at 100% SoC, and over 300kw when I'm a bit deeper into the pack. All without heating things up.

 

[Torrid]

The performance aspect of the 800V system makes up for it though, IMO. For example, I get around 80-100kw of regen at 100% SoC, and over 300kw when I'm a bit deeper into the pack. All without heating things up.

That's interesting. I didn't know that was a benefit of 800V with regen. Here it's just under 20 degrees now and if my car didn't precondition or just come off of the charger where it was kept warm, regen is very limited. It's close to free rolling. I'm not sure how cold your temperatures get though.

 

[UncleDave]

The performance aspect of the 800V system makes up for it though, IMO. For example, I get around 80-100kw of regen at 100% SoC, and over 300kw when I'm a bit deeper into the pack. All without heating things up.

Completely different set of unrelated metrics to what we were talking about prior, but interesting no less.

I'm trying to picture when I'd be both at 100% SOC and exploring the regen limits.

I can only think Id ever use capability in a spirited morning drive downhill BUT Id only ever charge 100% the morning before a road trip, and the car wouldnt see 100% again until the following morning prior to my return trip as charging to 100% on a road trip is a huge waste of time.

If I were just going to my fav butcher downhill (ZZ in marysville if anyone is curious ) would't charge to 100% to take a morning drive downhill spin though, Id charge to 80 or so and let the elevation drop bring the car up from there rather than pay to fill to 100% and throw away any downhill gain.

If I head uphill 100% quickly diminishes. but downhill I could probably hold the 100% for almost 7 miles from my house to the floor of the valley.

I like the paddles on this car and the different modes.