The New Fram Ultra......

[Sayjac]

Which is better, thin or thick media

Since you asked, when comes the Ultra at least, the authentic real deal OG Ultra with the thick "2-ply synthetic" (micro glass), "metal-screen-reinforced media provides 99%+ filtration efficiency," FTW! Not even close.

 

[ZeeOSix]

This makes 100% sense, but let's apply that logic to the new filter. Don't you think the new filter material is strong enough to handle 20k miles or Fram wouldn't have made this cost saving change?

There are more pleats in the new design which helps keep pleats tighter. Any filter without screen backing that has very wde pleat spacing has the potential to tear if the media isn't strong enough. That was the cause on Purolators that tore.

If the Fram engineers did it right, they should have done applicable design qualification testing in the lab to verify the media won't tear in the most extreme real world use conditions.

Can any confirm the actual filter material on the new ones is the same as the old ones, or is it different... maybe a little stouter?

The new media is totally different. It's been shown many times in this thread.

 

[Addicted2jeepz]

OK, I really hope I don't stir the pot more, this is for informational purposes only! I am NOT saying lighter equals worse filter.

I have 2 XG10575's, 1 has the screen, 1 is the new style. Both are in the new box.

With screen, in box: 11.7 oz
Without screen, in box: 10.5 oz

**I weighed them in the box so people can tell new from old style without opening.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ Bring your scale to Walmart.

 

[Addicted2jeepz]

Sounds reasonable

 

[dblshock]

OK, I really hope I don't stir the pot more, this is for informational purposes only! I am NOT saying lighter equals worse filter.

I have 2 XG10575's, 1 has the screen, 1 is the new style. Both are in the new box.

With screen, in box: 11.7 oz
Without screen, in box: 10.5 oz

**I weighed them in the box so people can tell new from old style without opening.

That's significant -12%...bastids

 

[BigJohn]

There are more pleats in the new design which helps keep pleats tighter. Any filter without screen backing that has very wde pleat spacing has the potential to tear if the media isn't strong enough. That was the cause on Purolators that tore.

If the Fram engineers did it right, they should have done applicable design qualification testing in the lab to verify the media won't tear in the most extreme real world use conditions.


The new media is totally different. It's been shown many times in this thread.

GIDDY UP!..... Feel good about my purchase.

 

[dan_erickson]

So 34 pages and over 600 comments later. It’s not a bad filter by any means. It just appears to not be as good of value as it used to be.
A few weeks ago I ordered 2 Ultra filters from Amazon. One came with out metal screen for my Honda and the other came with metal screen for my Tahoe.

 

[Addicted2jeepz]

So 34 pages and over 600 comments later. It’s not a bad filter by any means. It just appears to not be as good of value as it used to me.
I few weeks ago I order 2 Ultra filters from Amazon. One came with out metal screen for my Honda and the other came with metal screen for my Tahoe.

I would agree, I'm not concerned with the new filters abilities

 

[tolian21]

Is it still the best filter you can buy for $9 ?

 

[Krieg]

This makes 100% sense, but let's apply that logic to the new filter. Don't you think the new filter material is strong enough to handle 20k miles or Fram wouldn't have made this cost saving change?

Can any confirm the actual filter material on the new ones is the same as the old ones, or is it different... maybe a little stouter?

Do we have anyone who is approaching 20k miles on the filter that can cut it open and take a look?

.......

There are more pleats in the new design which helps keep pleats tighter. Any filter without screen backing that has very wde pleat spacing has the potential to tear if the media isn't strong enough. That was the cause on Purolators that tore.

If the Fram engineers did it right, they should have done applicable design qualification testing in the lab to verify the media won't tear in the most extreme real world use conditions.


The new media is totally different. It's been shown many times in this thread.

"If"?

 

[wpod]

So much mental masturbation for an oil filter. People don't keep their vehicles long enough to gain advantage of the marketing claims .

 

[wpod]

Yeah, this is sketchy. It would be nice if Donaldson acquired Champ, if Champ is to be acquired, and perhaps Baldwin/Hastings if that's the direction things are headed, to keep at least two large players in the game.

Monopoly ,,the consumers lose big time.

 

[Corollaman]

I'm sure everyone is scouring their local Walmart's looking for old stock ultras. I have to admit I did, not much luck.

 

[OVERKILL]

It is just simply a plane of holes, like a window screen, or it isn't. Even if it looks thin, all fiber oil filters have depth filtration. That's all I am saying. A cellulose fiber has extra depth filtering in each fiber, which is why I like cellulose or blended filters. It's like having little micro filtration in each fiber. The fatter they are the better.

Cellulose tends to catch larger particles on the surface (see the Donaldson images), where they embed, or they can fall off and collect in the bottom of the can (see Wayne's recent Durango filter dissection) which risks them being washed through the engine during a bypass event. As Donaldson notes, the finer particles will embed in the media, but as the larger particles block the holes, loading up the surface, the flow begins to suffer, as does the efficiency if the filter ends up going into bypass. There is only a single layer of cellulose, so the media cannot provide significant or refined depth filtration.

We already went over the material covered in this presentation back when you were Hubert P. Farnsworth in 2019, but as a refresher, this is the material from Cummins:

The original Ultra had two distinctly separate layers of synthetic media (probably not as complex as the Stratapore, but these are passenger car applications) providing true progressive depth filtration.

The "new" Ultra has a dusting of synthetic media as an outer layer, to capture and hold the larger particulate (increasing holding capacity) but the 2nd layer is a cellulose or cellulose blend media, meaning it lacks the advantages in flow and holding capacity that its predecessor had. They've worked to try and mitigate this by using more media, making the back layer more similar to that found in the PureONE.

As I've noted several times now in this thread, by integrating inexpensive cellulose, they've decreased the cost of production both through the media itself, and through construction, allowing the product to be manufactured in a conventional fashion, since the step of fitting the wire backing is removed.

As already noted, the two mitigation mechanisms employed to keep it a "premium" filter are:
- Synthetic "topper" to increase holding capacity
- High efficiency cellulose (or blend) backer to maintain efficiency rating

Neither of those things turn it back into the premium filter it was previously.

As Cummins details, a synthetic progressive depth filtration filter offers a plethora of advantages, but they require numerous extra construction steps, making them more expensive to produce.

 

[dblshock]

I'm sure everyone is scouring their local Walmart's looking for old stock ultras. I have to admit I did, not much luck.

me either, revision must have been it the works much before we realized.

 

[Krieg]

Reference aforementioned Cummins StrataPore presentation. I think I understand the point and I enjoyed reading it, thanks OP.

delete

 

[BigJohn]

I'm sure everyone is scouring their local Walmart's looking for old stock ultras. I have to admit I did, not much luck.

I looked today and found over 15 different types of filter with the screen. Unfortunately, none of them matched up to my vehicles.

 

[Job]

Cellulose tends to catch larger particles on the surface (see the Donaldson images), where they embed, or they can fall off and collect in the bottom of the can (see Wayne's recent Durango filter dissection) which risks them being washed through the engine during a bypass event. As Donaldson notes, the finer particles will embed in the media, but as the larger particles block the holes, loading up the surface, the flow begins to suffer, as does the efficiency if the filter ends up going into bypass. There is only a single layer of cellulose, so the media cannot provide significant or refined depth filtration.

We already went over the material covered in this presentation back when you were Hubert P. Farnsworth in 2019, but as a refresher, this is the material from Cummins:
View attachment 68906
View attachment 68907
View attachment 68908View attachment 68909
View attachment 68910View attachment 68911View attachment 68912View attachment 68913View attachment 68914

The original Ultra had two distinctly separate layers of synthetic media (probably not as complex as the Stratapore, but these are passenger car applications) providing true progressive depth filtration.

The "new" Ultra has a dusting of synthetic media as an outer layer, to capture and hold the larger particulate (increasing holding capacity) but the 2nd layer is a cellulose or cellulose blend media, meaning it lacks the advantages in flow and holding capacity that its predecessor had. They've worked to try and mitigate this by using more media, making the back layer more similar to that found in the PureONE.

As I've noted several times now in this thread, by integrating inexpensive cellulose, they've decreased the cost of production both through the media itself, and through construction, allowing the product to be manufactured in a conventional fashion, since the step of fitting the wire backing is removed.

As already noted, the two mitigation mechanisms employed to keep it a "premium" filter are:
- Synthetic "topper" to increase holding capacity
- High efficiency cellulose (or blend) backer to maintain efficiency rating

Neither of those things turn it back into the premium filter it was previously.

As Cummins details, a synthetic progressive depth filtration filter offers a plethora of advantages, but they require numerous extra construction steps, making them more expensive to produce.

I may change the name again. I like the poly fibers over glass. Never liked glass being part of media. What if it sheds off? As for cellulose, It's like wearing a cotton shirt in summer versus polyester. Which one absorbs?

 

[IndyFan]

Cellulose tends to catch larger particles on the surface (see the Donaldson images), where they embed, or they can fall off and collect in the bottom of the can (see Wayne's recent Durango filter dissection) which risks them being washed through the engine during a bypass event. As Donaldson notes, the finer particles will embed in the media, but as the larger particles block the holes, loading up the surface, the flow begins to suffer, as does the efficiency if the filter ends up going into bypass. There is only a single layer of cellulose, so the media cannot provide significant or refined depth filtration.

We already went over the material covered in this presentation back when you were Hubert P. Farnsworth in 2019, but as a refresher, this is the material from Cummins:
View attachment 68906
View attachment 68907
View attachment 68908View attachment 68909
View attachment 68910View attachment 68911View attachment 68912View attachment 68913View attachment 68914

The original Ultra had two distinctly separate layers of synthetic media (probably not as complex as the Stratapore, but these are passenger car applications) providing true progressive depth filtration.

The "new" Ultra has a dusting of synthetic media as an outer layer, to capture and hold the larger particulate (increasing holding capacity) but the 2nd layer is a cellulose or cellulose blend media, meaning it lacks the advantages in flow and holding capacity that its predecessor had. They've worked to try and mitigate this by using more media, making the back layer more similar to that found in the PureONE.

As I've noted several times now in this thread, by integrating inexpensive cellulose, they've decreased the cost of production both through the media itself, and through construction, allowing the product to be manufactured in a conventional fashion, since the step of fitting the wire backing is removed.

As already noted, the two mitigation mechanisms employed to keep it a "premium" filter are:
- Synthetic "topper" to increase holding capacity
- High efficiency cellulose (or blend) backer to maintain efficiency rating

Neither of those things turn it back into the premium filter it was previously.

As Cummins details, a synthetic progressive depth filtration filter offers a plethora of advantages, but they require numerous extra construction steps, making them more expensive to produce.

You said "to maintain efficiency rating." If the efficiency rating stays the same, then they will function the same, for me. I don't run them 20k miles.

If the oil comes out the same in terms of particulates after a 5k or even 10k OCI for me, then the filter performs the same, rendering all that fancy talk as just noise. If it doesn't, then you are right, it is a lesser filter.

So we need to see some real world data.