It used to be that only Amsoil had API certified synthetic oils. Then Mobil. Now I think every oil company has synthetic oils. Because it has been proven time and time again that they out perform conventional oils. In increased horsepower, lower temperatures, improved fuel mileage, less friction, higher temperature protection, lower temperature protection, quicker cold starts, longer oil change intervals, less shearing, lower Noack Volatility, etc. How many professional racers use conventional oil? Why don't they?
The main thing I have learned on BITOG
- Thread starter Winston
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syn oils are pervasive because they produce a huge profit margine. A race car is not a streetxar so the analogy holds no water.
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how many professional racers go 200k or more on one engine?
So what are the advantages that conventional oils have over synthetics, other than lower initial purchase price?
Advantages to who? The consumer, none. Oh no, that's not really true. They will keep you busier under the car draining oil. Or if you like to push it a few extra thousand miles you can look forward to fretting about what solvent flush sludge remover approach to use or if ARX really does work like they say.
So I guess if you are a retired obsessive compulsive type with plenty of time on your hands, dino really is the way to go.
OTOH the oil companies, automotive sales and repair services industries in general just love it for all the extra revenue generated in oil and new vehicle sales, parts and repair costs and other indirect business advantages. Wonderful advantages in that context.
So I guess if you are a retired obsessive compulsive type with plenty of time on your hands, dino really is the way to go.
OTOH the oil companies, automotive sales and repair services industries in general just love it for all the extra revenue generated in oil and new vehicle sales, parts and repair costs and other indirect business advantages. Wonderful advantages in that context.
Well, since we are bored (and I'm a state worker)...just thought I'd throw this in the mix.
will be changing my 2001 F150 to Q-power 4x4 full synthetic 5W-20 next month...then run a UOA at 5k...and 7k...and.....whatever until they tell me it's ugly.
why?
why not?
i put mileage on so slowly that i can wait the week turnaround time on the UOA.
will be changing my 2001 F150 to Q-power 4x4 full synthetic 5W-20 next month...then run a UOA at 5k...and 7k...and.....whatever until they tell me it's ugly.
why?
why not?
i put mileage on so slowly that i can wait the week turnaround time on the UOA.
Cleanliness is a very debatable advantage. The primary advantage of syn is extreme low and high temperature performance. That is the reason it is specified for the corvette for example. GM did not want to install an oil cooler and with the tight engine compartment they anticipated a high operating oil tmperature in that performance engine so synthetic was specified. Wonderful engine in a very specific high performance application.
That requirement does not transfer to all chevy v-8's nor should it. Conventional oils produce great results at a lower cost.
I would not rule either out, application is important.
That requirement does not transfer to all chevy v-8's nor should it. Conventional oils produce great results at a lower cost.
I would not rule either out, application is important.
I have learned two main things on BITOG:
1) There are nuggets of amazingly good information to be found among the offal of the forum.
2) A disease known as BITOG OCD
is widespread.
1) There are nuggets of amazingly good information to be found among the offal of the forum.
2) A disease known as BITOG OCD
The question is why spend more $$ when in the end you do not get any benefit?
I've NEVER had a sludged motor running conventional nor has any of my family.
I've had many engines make 200k plus miles and are going fine. I've got one with over 300k and its fine. All pass smog, run perfect and show no problems.
As far as your improved MPG, I have tried syn for a few oil changes in MANY motors and I 've never seen any improvement.
I've posted UOAs with syn and conventional in the same car here. Have you?
(give you a hint, the conventional uoa was better in many engines)
I've discussed MPG and cleanness findings in engines that I've owned. Have you?
I've cut open clean unsludged oil filters from many engines here using conventional oil. Have you?
All I've seen is you pushing syn oil in 99% of your posts. And most of those one brand. I've never said any one brand is the best because thats not true.
I came to BITOG to share FACTS. Not marketing . Been doing that for over 4 years.
And I care about my cars and engines as much as the other person. I also care about the bottom line. I NEED my engines to last since I drive 30k miles a year.
As I've said in the past;
If your manual states you NEED syn oil, you have to run it.
If you WANT to run it, thats fine.
Just don't think that your engine is going to last longer because your running it. Because there are MILLIONS of cars that are luckly to see oil changes every year that are running fine. And they last a long time.
Any BITOG person is going to change their oil in a timely fashion. ANY rated oil for their car is going to work.
I see Syn (and use syn, even buy the brand you sell
But, your OCI will have to be VERY long to keep the cost in line with onsale oils. ( my cost for a 5k oci including a filter is under $5 )
My 1986 jetta just passed 300k with many of those changes. Still passes dyno smog with ease. Never had a injector off. Never had a single problem with it.
Thats with SG,SH and yesterdays oils. And FRAM filters!
How does that happen??
How much do you charge for a single qt of oil?
(this post should get some replies...)
Take care, Bill
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And FRAM filters!
BILL, you are telling me you run Fram filters?
and your vehicles haven't blown up!
OMG....are you sure...
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And FRAM filters!
BILL, you are telling me you run Fram filters?
and your vehicles haven't blown up!
OMG....are you sure...
Used to.
But since finding BITOG, I've gone to a better filter for a lower price.
The 1986 300k+ Jetta still uses Frams(sister in law drives it now).
I use Supertechs on all the engines that I change oil for in the family. Cut open every one (as I've cut open EVERY filter for over 30 years) with never an issue..
Can't beat $2.50 for a well made filter.
My UOAs show very low insol so something is correct.
Take care, Bill
I hear ya...
I run MC on the F150, ST on the Galant and the AAP BOGO on the Civic (at least until my stash runs out)...I've read the AAP isn't a bad filter...doing 4k mile OCI's right now...
I run MC on the F150, ST on the Galant and the AAP BOGO on the Civic (at least until my stash runs out)...I've read the AAP isn't a bad filter...doing 4k mile OCI's right now...
Come on..... Just a little further...... You can hold off.... 5k OCI!!! Ahhhhhhh... I made it!
Bill, I totally agree with you. $5 5k OCI is a great way to go. It was hard for me to believe it at first, but I think those Supertech's are great filters.
Contrary to what many people believe, those big box stores (Wallmart and Costco) are not successfull by pushing #@$%!. Selling #@$%! causes more problems and costs more than selling a decent product. That good filter media in a Supertech probably costs 25cents more than the cheap filter media.
I have a friend that is a buyer for Costco. Tells me all sorts of stories of things they do to increase quality of their products. .. Pay the growers a bit more to allow the fruit to ripen more on the vine... ... Change a few ingredients on a product to make it taste better... Their buying power allows them to do this. Thier goal is not to simply put the cheapest product on the shelves. Companies have tried that. It does not work.
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Hey Bill, aren't you the one who put the wrong $10 a quart Mobil-1 oil in your transmission?
You must not have READ the whole thread.
I put in what Toyota states and Mobil produces. I even post photos of the manual, the URL for Mobils web site and the back of the bottle.
Not my fault that the $10 oil did not perform well..
Please go read the thead again!
Bill
The one thing I learned: I feel safe about doing a 3K OCI. Yes,I use to do 2K OCI, eek, but I have changed. The other item is that you folks are bent out of shape if you think syn can extend OCI. Every owners manual I read states that syn can be used, but do not extend your OCI because of your use of it. There is a web site by Valvoline,(Valvoline Track Record(?)-sorry no www.) and in one statement they mentioned that there is a certain part of syn that breaks down at the same rate as dino. Certain cars require syn, like Vettes, Vipers etc., because of the extreme way these cars would be driven and if you owned these babies why stretch out the OCI? Duh! But if you all feel comfy in doing your longer OCI's so be it.
Corvettes require Syn because Chevy did not want to put on a oil cooler I've read many times.
If I had a vette, I know I could run conventional oil since I would not drive it as hard as it was designed, but would run the lowest cost Syn just to be safe.
Take care, bill
If I had a vette, I know I could run conventional oil since I would not drive it as hard as it was designed, but would run the lowest cost Syn just to be safe.
Take care, bill
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Todays engine oils are really, really good.Seriously, I never knew about the complexity of all the additives in todays oils.
Lets say I plan to keep my car for 10-12 years. It will go 150-200k miles. It is a generic vehicle without a turbo. If I use the "El Cheapo" Chevron Supreme oil from Kragen at 89cents a quart with a $2 Supertech oil filter, and I do a 5k OCI. Will I feel any noticable performance change in that timeframe? I doubt it. It seems with todays engines and oils, 200k is easy.
If I use a good synthetic and do 10k oil changes I could save some time on oil changes, but the overall outcome would probably be the same. No?
Once again I gotta say you 3k OCIers are crazy.
Just bored today reading about all of the Grp III vs PAO rantings.
I don't agree completely with the generic 5k mile change on just any oil and still get 200K miles on the engine, although I cannot prove it.
Some 5k mile UOA's shows really low TBN and high insolubles so there might be some sludge forming that would block the oil screen and many many thousands of miles. Otherwise I think you ideas are pretty darn good.
Greg Harrison
Patman
Staff member
I don't drive my Corvette nearly as hard as some people I know, since I don't take it on road courses, and if it's 90 degrees outside I won't drive it too hard for long periods of time. So I have never seen my oil temperature go higher than 227F, and most times in the summer it's below 210F. (in winter it stays below 200F most of the time)
So I probably could get away with conventional oil, but I still like to run synthetic just in case I do get into a situation where the oil temps climb, and also so I can use my oil life monitor as well, since it's calculated based on synthetic oil as well.
let me put in my opinion. first I totally agree that you can run 5k on an oil. most use the old mileage because that is what their daddy told them. If you don't know how your oil does then use the analysis, this will tell you how your oil is doing. as for extended drains, by having the analysis paper work you can show that your oil is fine and that changing the oil sooner would not make any difference. but you do have to have that paperwork to show how your oil is. buy having that, I don't care what people have to say about warr, no warr can be denied if your oil is in the correct range, therefore you can extend your oil drains. the oil drains for warr's is for those that don't do oil analysis as have no idea as to what their oil is doing.
vavoline is one of the worst oils I have ever see so its no wonder why their web site doesn't talk good about the synth oils.
I use the cheapest filters on my cars as I don't put any junk in my oil so I really don't need to filter my oil. right now has been fram. I've yet to see anyone, and I mean anyone show where a fram has caused ANY damage to ANY engine. like said before, fram has been used for a long time by alot of people and I'm sure they have had some failures but so has other filter companies.
I use a blend oil but also have a lot of people using straight mineral oil. they can and do extend their drains on the mineral oil by using oil analysis also. I have not seen a mileage increase by using synth oil myself. I thing some use people use a thinner oil when they change over to synth oil and get an increase. maybe even the additives used in synth oils may be responsible but in my case, no difference.
some say the have a temp difference, again, I haven't seen this in any of my cars, but remember, I have only used schaeffers in mine and because of the nature of additives used in mineral and synth oils I have never seen any difference, so if you change oil brands maybe it is the difference is additives you think?
bob
vavoline is one of the worst oils I have ever see so its no wonder why their web site doesn't talk good about the synth oils.
I use the cheapest filters on my cars as I don't put any junk in my oil so I really don't need to filter my oil. right now has been fram. I've yet to see anyone, and I mean anyone show where a fram has caused ANY damage to ANY engine. like said before, fram has been used for a long time by alot of people and I'm sure they have had some failures but so has other filter companies.
I use a blend oil but also have a lot of people using straight mineral oil. they can and do extend their drains on the mineral oil by using oil analysis also. I have not seen a mileage increase by using synth oil myself. I thing some use people use a thinner oil when they change over to synth oil and get an increase. maybe even the additives used in synth oils may be responsible but in my case, no difference.
some say the have a temp difference, again, I haven't seen this in any of my cars, but remember, I have only used schaeffers in mine and because of the nature of additives used in mineral and synth oils I have never seen any difference, so if you change oil brands maybe it is the difference is additives you think?
bob
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