The future of vehicles....

[dfarr67]

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/c...-planned-obsolescence-and-disposable-44514856

Wonder how they have saved by skating to close to the edge then spending millions on recalls.

 

[ecotourist]

And here's another one:

 

[dfarr67]

Informative.

 

[dishdude]

EVs are being likened to smartphones. As for this video, I'm not blindly believing a faceless unidentified individual.

 

[dfarr67]

With my knowledge and personal experiance- I've seen the companies slididng and I believe it. Have you seen so many recals regardless of make.

 

[zzyzzx]

EVs are being likened to smartphones. As for this video, I'm not blindly believing a faceless unidentified individual.

After what happened to the Boeing whistleblower nobody is going to reveal their identity.

 

[ATex7239]

A Fortune 500 company is run by the bean counters and makes decisions based on cost not quality.

What an earth shattering revelation.

 

[dfarr67]

After what happened to the Boeing whistleblower nobody is going to reveal their identity.

Whistleblowers? Plural?

 

[dfarr67]

A Fortune 500 company is run by the bean counters and makes decisions based on cost not quality.

What an earth shattering revelation.

It's a balance not a revelation. The balance has been off for a number of years- for the price paid....somebody is hurting.

 

[fdcg27]

Saw this anonymous hit piece.
Problem I have with it is that everything points to vehicles lasting longer with fewer problems than was the case in past decades.
It is common for vehicles with typically indifferent maintenance to go fifteen years and 200K before they are deemed unworthy of repair, something unheard of in past decades, when 100K without major repair was considered quite good.
Also, don't try to tell me about electronics. They are less failure prone than are mechanical systems and they either die an early under warranty death in a handful of cases or accompany the vehicle in which they're installed on its last ride to the scrap yard working just fine.
Finally, if cars really were engineered to die an early death, do you really think there'd be so many lenders willing to buy seven year paper?

 

[ecotourist]

Saw this anonymous hit piece.
Problem I have with it is that everything points to vehicles lasting longer with fewer problems than was the case in past decades.
It is common for vehicles with typically indifferent maintenance to go fifteen years and 200K before they are deemed unworthy of repair, something unheard of in past decades, when 100K without major repair was considered quite good.
Also, don't try to tell me about electronics. They are less failure prone than are mechanical systems and they either die an early under warranty death in a handful of cases or accompany the vehicle in which they're installed on its last ride to the scrap yard working just fine.
Finally, if cars really were engineered to die an early death, do you really think there'd be so many lenders willing to buy seven year paper?

I think the difference is that vehicles used to last 100,000 miles with the best available design and construction. With modern methods they last a long time but could be made to last even longer than they do.

You're right about electronics. They usually last for a very long time and that's good. But when they fail they may be costly to repair, be unrepairable, and be potentially unreplaceable. I'm reminded of the Peter Egan story (in Road and Track) of the car that failed while he and his friends were on a weekend away from home, when 4 experienced foreign car mechanics could not get it running. It needed a new distributor and that was that. And if you couldn't get a new distributor ...

When I was a kid in engineering college I was shocked to find that that people would make something with other than the best available parts (bearings for example), that you could actually design for a certain service life.

How many people taking out a 7 year auto loan intend to keep the car for 7 years? Not many I think.

 

[fdcg27]

I think the difference is that vehicles used to last 100,000 miles with the best available design and construction. With modern methods they last a long time but could be made to last even longer than they do.

You're right about electronics. They usually last for a very long time and that's good. But when they fail they may be costly to repair, be unrepairable, and be potentially unreplaceable. I'm reminded of the Peter Egan story (in Road and Track) of the car that failed while he and his friends were on a weekend away from home, when 4 experienced foreign car mechanics could not get it running. It needed a new distributor and that was that. And if you couldn't get a new distributor ...

When I was a kid in engineering college I was shocked to find that that people would make something with other than the best available parts (bearings for example), that you could actually design for a certain service life.

How many people taking out a 7 year auto loan intend to keep the car for 7 years? Not many I think.

Yes, cars could be made to last even longer than they do and you and I could not afford to buy them.
I would imagine that most folks taking out seven year loans do so out of financial necessity and since they'll always be upside down, they're probably destined to keep the beast until it's paid off or nearly so.

 

[rstcso]

How many people taking out a 7 year auto loan intend to keep the car for 7 years? Not many I think.

Even if it dies an early death, if you've taken out a loan beyond the vehicle's useful life, you still owe the debt.

 

[ecotourist]

Yes, cars could be made to last even longer than they do and you and I could not afford to buy them.
I would imagine that most folks taking out seven year loans do so out of financial necessity and since they'll always be upside down, they're probably destined to keep the beast until it's paid off or nearly so.

The cost increase for a much longer service life may not be very much. Did you watch the planned obsolescence video above? They're trying to save a few pennies here and there.

Would you accept your surgeon using a hip prosthesis that was predicted to have a shorter service life because the hospital could save a few bucks? I'll have the good one, thank you very much.

 

[fdcg27]

Even if it dies an early death, if you've taken out a loan beyond the vehicle's useful life, you still owe the debt.

Maybe so, but the doctrine of not being able to get blood from a turnip applies and the debt can be discharged in bankruptcy through the surrender of the collateral, running or not.

 

[fdcg27]

The cost increase for a much longer service life may not be very much. Did you watch the planned obsolescence video above? They're trying to save a few pennies here and there.

Would you accept your surgeon using a hip prosthesis that was predicted to have a shorter service life because the hospital could save a few bucks? I'll have the good one, thank you very much.

You are making an apples to oranges comparison.
You are also placing great faith in the utterances of someone neither you nor I know with credibility we cannot asses.
It is common knowledge that the 200K mile cars we can all buy today could just as easily be 300K or 400K cars with sufficiently robust and less integrated (more easily repairable) design and components specs.
What would this actually cost?
It wouldn't be pennies.

 

[ecotourist]

You are making an apples to oranges comparison.
You are also placing great faith in the utterances of someone neither you nor I know with credibility we cannot asses.
It is common knowledge that the 200K mile cars we can all buy today could just as easily be 300K or 400K cars with sufficiently robust and less integrated (more easily repairable) design and components specs.
What would this actually cost?
It wouldn't be pennies.

I'd certainly pay 10% more. I suspect that's in the range of the increased cost.

Can you imagine the resale value of a truly long life car (with excellent rust resistance, bullet proof power train, etc) . Our current longer life cars (most Toyota/Lexus models) already keep their value very well.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I think the difference is that vehicles used to last 100,000 miles with the best available design and construction. With modern methods they last a long time but could be made to last even longer than they do.

I agree that they could be made to last much longer, but the reality is the average vehicle is used 13,500 miles per year is the latest spec I have seen. Thats 15 years @ 200K. I think in many parts of the country it would be rusty beyond use at that mileage, and for those places that it won't it will have other degradation that most people won't want or put up with, like interior or appearance. Now the question is what percentage of cars can go 200K. I think many of the better ones can easily. The issue of course is people are unwilling to repair or pay someone to repair them at that age.

You're right about electronics. They usually last for a very long time and that's good. But when they fail they may be costly to repair, be unrepairable, and be potentially unreplaceable.

The biggest issue is lack of parts, and lack of people willing to spend the money on the part. No one wants to pay $2000 for an ECU for a 15 year old car. I would, but I am likely the only one hence no incentive for the aftermarket to step in. The OEM's will not - there purpose is to sell new cars.

Its chicken and egg unfortunately.

 

[fdcg27]

I'd certainly pay 10% more. I suspect that's in the range of the increased cost.

Can you imagine the resale value of a truly long life car (with excellent rust resistance, bullet proof power train, etc) . Our current longer life cars (most Toyota/Lexus models) already keep their value very well.

I suspect that 10% is quite a bit less than the actual cost increment would be for the attributes you describe.
Yes, Toyotas and Hondas do retain their values better than the industry average, but Subaru leads both.
Explain that.

 

[Cujet]

Also, don't try to tell me about electronics. They are less failure prone than are mechanical systems

That is only true if you are not a Jaguar owner

My 2003 X-Type has the largest set of weird electronic failures I've ever seen. I don't think there is one electronic component on the car that is unaffected. 235K miles of mechanical supremacy, coupled with the doors locking when blinkers or brake pedal is used and the interior lights refusing to power down, despite all doors closed. And the ECU goes into hard limp mode when cruise is engaged sometimes. Not to mention the dash going "all alarm red" for no apparent reason. Fixed by a shutdown restart on the fly. Absolutely bizarre, oh the latest is the electronic heating and AC going absolutely Egyptian, with hieroglyphics on display, and full heat for 30 seconds every half hour. And plenty more!!!