The Decision to Reload - Cost Effectiveness?

[EdwardC]

I only started reloading last year, I haven't broken even, but I would say, if you're into shooting, and are thinking about reloading, just do it.

I did it because 10mm is pretty pricey, but I shoot mostly 9mm. Reusing brass (I've found that for my mild loads, you can reuse pistol brass almost indefinitely), I've calculated that I'm around $4.50 for 50 rounds, using x-treme bullets copper plated 115gr round nose bullets.

I've found that you really don't have to spend much on equipment to start reloading. Lee's smaller turret models have a good track record. I splurged a little and went with the Hornady Lock N Load AP. With 9mm and 10mm/40S&W dies and a bunch of other accessories, I think I finished up around $600. I had stuff like calipers and a scale already. I added dies for 45 ACP a few months later, I think it cost about $60 total since I needed to get a different shell holder specialized for my press. If I went with a single stage or Lee Turret, I think I could have done it for under $250. I think the next step up, at least from what I was researching, you could go to an Dillon unit which would probably get you to $1,000.

If I only shot 9mm, it would take about 6,000 rounds for me to break even. I don't even shoot that much, but I know I'll eventually shoot that much, even if it takes a couple years. and at that point, I'd be paying myself to shoot

However, the price difference is much larger for 10mm, where the payback would be after 2,000 rounds.

I had an extra incentive to start reloading though, there are no online vendors that would ship ammo to an address in Chicago, so I was stuck shipping to a friend or family's house. In addition, there's an ammo tax of $0.05 per round of centerfire ($0.02/rd rimfire) if I purchased locally, so the payback is even faster for me.

I don't honestly think that I shoot much more than I did before I started reloading, I just do it for cheaper.

If you're thinking about it, and can afford the initial costs of the equipment, I say, just do it.

 

[i_hate_autofraud]

There's another consideration:

If you reload, you can tailor rounds and come up with combos you can't buy.

I have pals that shot vintage guns with reduced loads to avoid breaking matched parts.
Another tailors sub-sonic rounds for suppressor use, quieter then commercial sub-sonic rounds!

Get a good reloader book with tables while you're at it!!

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Any oddball is going to save a ton. Higher quality projectiles in just about any caliber are going to save a lot.


This is true. You can usually base your savings on how popular the round itself is, along with how often the major ammunition companies produce their runs of it. For example calibers like 9 MM, .45 ACP, .223, and .308 are always in 24/7 constant production by the major companies like Remington, Winchester, and Federal. As a result their cost per round is so low, it's hard to make out buying components and reloading it any cheaper. That, along with the fact they are military rounds, keep them cheap as well. At least cheap enough to not make the whole thing worth your while. (After almost 50 years and countless rounds of reloading, I'm well beyond the, "personal satisfaction" part of it).

But low volume, low production African rounds like the .416 Rigby cost a fortune, (upward of $140.00 @ box of 20), because they only run production of these calibers once or twice a year. If they run out, they won't tool up a line until the following year because they simply can't sell enough to make it worth it. So reloading will not only save you a fortune, but you will have ammunition whenever you need it.

On the other hand I'm trying to justify reloading for my .50 BMG, but I just can't. Not when I can buy factory military rounds for as low as $2.50 / $3.00 @ round. Presses, dies, and primer handling equipment cost a fortune in that caliber. A Dillon Carbide Resizing Die in .50 BMG runs close to $900.00. A press $1K+. And so on. I would have to shoot over a thousand rounds a year for years to make out from a cost standpoint.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: billt460

This is true. You can usually base your savings on how popular the round itself is, along with how often the major ammunition companies produce their runs of it. For example calibers like 9 MM, .45 ACP, .223, and .308 are always in 24/7 constant production by the major companies like Remington, Winchester, and Federal. As a result their cost per round is so low, it's hard to make out buying components and reloading it any cheaper. That, along with the fact they are military rounds, keep them cheap as well. At least cheap enough to not make the whole thing worth your while. (After almost 50 years and countless rounds of reloading, I'm well beyond the, "personal satisfaction" part of it).


Got it. 9mm, at current prices, is about a 50% savings assuming the reloading gear is fully amortized... Based upon this at least:

Originally Posted By: EdwardC
Reusing brass (I've found that for my mild loads, you can reuse pistol brass almost indefinitely), I've calculated that I'm around $4.50 for 50 rounds, using x-treme bullets copper plated 115gr round nose bullets.


So 9c vs 19c for 9mm.

But where is the "knee in the curve"? "cheap" nonrussian 45ACP is more like 25c/round. Is the commodity cost similar to 9mm or higher?

I cant say Id be reloading 9mm, but Im not loading 416 Rigby either. I feel that Id protentially "make the money back" on .38spl/.357mag, .44spl, and .308, but would also do OK with .45ACP.

Assuming I had brass, is there a "yield" I can expect? Like how many are duds or failures for one reason or another?

Trying to get a c/rd at current prices for a number of rounds, so that I can see where the cost structure lies.

Id be lying if I said I wanted to make match grade ammo. At least to start. I just think the opportunity space may be there for a fun way to experiment, and to reduce per round cost too. If I get to experiment, and retrieve 10c every time I pull the trigger, the dollars seem to add up fast, making the way towards breaking even or better... Yes that avoids TVM considerations, but starting with commodity costs helps paint a picture...

 

[jjjxlr8]

Like everyone has mentioned it takes a significant amount of time and a fair amount of effort to reload your own ammo. For most, once you figure in your time factor it's cheaper to buy ammo, except in the hard to get calibers. It's a satisfying hobby in itself, but for common calibers you won't save that much.

Just some basic steps for reloading .308 for example:
1) clean once fired brass - tumble in corn or walnut shell media
2) separate brass and media
3) lube cases
4) de-prime and size cases (one step with most dies)
5) trim cases to length and measure
6) de-burr the neck, inside and outside
7) swage or remove primer pocket crimp (for military brass only and only the first re-load)
8) clean and uniform the primer pocket (this can be two steps depending on equipment)
9) clean cases to remove lube, metal shavings, carbon
10) press in primers
11) charge cases with propellant (this step may include trickle charging for accuracy)
12) press in bullets, with or without a taper crimp - measure overall length

As far as "duds or failures", you need to develop reliable processes so you have ZERO duds or failures. If you don't, you could injure/kill yourself or others at the range. It's not that hard, but certain pistol powders where you are using very small amounts can be unforgiving.

 

[EdwardC]

You can fairly easily estimate the component costs looking at Cabelas.

For example, their S&B primers are $18.99 for 1000 (same price for small or large). (They're currently on sale, usually they're closer to $30 for 1000. So far, I've only purchased them at Cabelas when on sale to avoid the hazmat fees)

Next, for the powder, a very common powder is the Winchester 231 (identical to Hodgdon HP-38), which is $25/lb. 1lb = 7,000 grains. Checking www.hodgdonreloading.com, you can look up power charges depending on caliber and bullet weight. Looking at a couple, lets say you load 6.0gr per round, or 1,166rds per lb of powder. Again, buying locally avoids Hazmat fees.

At Cabelas, 500 200gr Copper Plated Round Nose 45 bullets are currently $64.

I'll tack on a 10% tax.

Primers: $0.0209ea
Powder: $0.0231(6.0gr W231)
Bullet: $0.140 (200gr PRN)

Total comes to $0.184/rd.


The price goes down if you buy in larger quantities:

Primers: $0.0209ea
Powder: $0.0218 (6.0gr W231) (Still Cabelas, in 8lb jugs)
Bullet: $0.098 (200gr PRN) (from xtremebullets.com in 2,250 quantity, currently on sale, no tax, typically free shipping deals)

Total comes to $0.1407/rd.

These prices are where my numbers come from (large quantity, but not quite bulk). I haven't purchased in true bulk quantities, so I think the prices can still be a little better. In addition, you could skip the copper plating and buy lead bullets, or even cheaper, cast your own bullets. As you can see, the bullet is the largest part of the component costs. All my calculations don't include brass.


I think the cost of components is fairly linear with the weight of the bullet and the weight of the powder charge. So if you're looking for the knee-curve, it'll be more about what the cost for commercial ammo. I don't know for sure, but I bet you'll hit the curve with any round that isn't 9mm, 45ACP, .223 or .308 (maybe 7.62x39). There's still value in reloading those round, just a much slower ROI.

 

[hatt]

I don't get caught up in the return on investment stuff. I like having the ability and I like tools. I've only been reloading for a few years and have probably spent more during that time on equipment and components than I spent on ammo the previous 10 years.

 

[funkymonkey1111]

Originally Posted By: i_hate_autofraud


There's another consideration:

If you reload, you can tailor rounds and come up with combos you can't buy.

I have pals that shot vintage guns with reduced loads to avoid breaking matched parts.
Another tailors sub-sonic rounds for suppressor use, quieter then commercial sub-sonic rounds!

Get a good reloader book with tables while you're at it!!


This. Yes, you will save $$. OP, if you're a competitor, which i'm assuming you're not given your question, you can dial in non temperature-sensitive rounds at the desired velocities (to meet power factor requirements) with particular powders, load combos, etc. To me, like tying flies, it's part of the sport.

If you're a casual shooter, it probably doesn't make much sense to buy the equipment and take the time, unless it's just something you enjoy. If you like to go out and shoot 150-200 rounds every couple of months, and that's a big day for you, you're probably wasting your time considering reloading.

 

[Crispysea]

My uncle reloaded when I was a kid, and taught me a lot about it. During the panic of 2013, when even common calibers were hard to find, I started loading my own. It’s definitely worth it for me now, since my gear has long since been paid off. I’m making odd calibers now that would be far more expensive to buy. Even on common ones, I can save money sometimes. Good deals on components can be found, especially if you check local trading sites.

 

[funkymonkey1111]

Originally Posted By: Crispysea
My uncle reloaded when I was a kid, and taught me a lot about it. During the panic of 2013, when even common calibers were hard to find, I started loading my own. It’s definitely worth it for me now, since my gear has long since been paid off. I’m making odd calibers now that would be far more expensive to buy. Even on common ones, I can save money sometimes. Good deals on components can be found, especially if you check local trading sites.


to be clear, during panics in 08/09 and 12/13, reloading components were as scarce, if not more so, than loaded ammo. So, if you haven't laid in supplies, don't think that reloading is going to be some sort of loaded ammo alternative during a run on ammo. Primers were virtually non-existent in early 2013, as were many, many popular powders

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: funkymonkey1111
to be clear, during panics in 08/09 and 12/13, reloading components were as scarce, if not more so, than loaded ammo. So, if you haven't laid in supplies, don't think that reloading is going to be some sort of loaded ammo alternative during a run on ammo. Primers were virtually non-existent in early 2013, as were many, many popular powders


Very true. Part of the problem was everyone and their brother all got the same idea at the same time. They couldn't find ammo, so they all thought they would buy the equipment and roll their own. Next thing you know primers, powder, brass, and bullets were non existent. And it stayed that way for well over a year.

Powder companies could only produce enough to support the current market. And most of the bullet manufacturers like Hornady, Winchester, and Remington were using the bulk of the bullets they were manufacturing for producing their own ammunition. It was a real PITA for a long time. I had more than enough stockpiled to get me through. But after it all ended I upped my supplies, like many reloaders did.

 

[hardheaded]

big savings if you are loading .357 , 44 mag, 30-06 or any large caliber. 9mm and 223 not so much.

 

[OVERKILL]

Big savings here loading .338LM, which is an insanely expensive cartridge for boxed ammo.

Also can load hunting rounds and stuff that isn't normally available.

 

[Wis]

I've never realized any savings by handloading.

I just enjoy it as a hobby.

 

[CarbonSteel]

I originally posted the below text for someone else in 2014 who was trying to decide if reloading is/was worth it. I can unequivocally say that all of my reloading equipment has been paid for many times over in cost savings versus purchasing ammunition. But there are always caveats such as:

-- ROI with reloading is a long term investment, you will not recover your cost in 100 rounds.
-- Market conditions can affect how much you save reloading.
-- You can ALWAYS load more accurate ammunition than factory because you can custom tailor the load, bullets, OAL, etc.
-- Uncommon ammunition will invoke faster cost savings than common.

My last piece of advice is to buy the best that you afford and "buy once, cry once" as opposed to buying equipment over and over. I have two Dillon XL650 presses complete with case feeders, but I started with a RCBS Rock Chucker way back in the early 90's, switched to Hornady, then finally to Dillon--I should have simply gone with Dillon from the start, but the price pushed me away (I would have saved a lot if had just bought the Dillon). The RCBS was the "Cadillac" of presses in its day and I gave it to a member here a few years ago who I believe is still using it--the point is to not be enticed to buy cheap equipment, you will lose money in the end.


Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
You will save each time you reload up to the point of the brass requiring replacement. Here is a perfect example of what I am talking about. I varmint hunt (there are usually 4 of us) and we shoot quite a bit. It would not be unusual to shoot more than 1000 rounds in a hunt.

Provided my math is correct (and these are November 2014 prices):

$805 = 1000 rounds of factory ammo ($15.66 x 50 = $783 + $22 shipping) [Hornady Varmint Express with 55gr Hornady V-Max bullets] (Cheaper than Dirt)
$18.79 (Midway) per 20 round box
$21.29 (Cabela's) per 20 round box
$15.66 (Cheaper than dirt) per 20 round box
$17.95 (Ammunition to go) per 20 round box
$22.99 (Gander Mountain) per 20 round box
$19.33 (AVERAGE) per 20 round box, but I am using the cheapest number of $15.66 per box


$87 = 1000 rounds of once fired brass (free shipping) [Lake City; cleaned, de-primed, and swaged] (Brass Bombers)
$121 = 4# powder ($81 +$40 shipping/hazmat)[Accurate 2200] (Powder Valley); 7000 grains in a pound and each cartridge takes about 24 grains (max load). 7000/24 = 291 rounds per pound, so just over 3.5# of powder needed.
$26.50 = 1000 CCI small rifle primers (Shipping included with powder) (Powder Valley)
$158 = 1000 55 grain bullets ($148 + $10 shipping) [Hornady V-Max] (MidSouth Shooters)
$393 = TOTAL COST

$306 = NEXT/SUBSEQUENT RELOAD (Typically no brass is needed; but all cases should be checked and verified)

Cost savings over factory ammo:
$412 = 1st loading ($805-$393)
$499 = 2nd loading ($805-$306)

In two loadings versus purchasing factory Hornady ammunition, I will have paid for a Dillon RL550B with all of the bells and whistles and plenty of "gadgets" to go along with it. This is not to mention the fact that I can make more accurate ammunition than I will ever experience with factory ammo simply because I can custom tailor the load and OAL to each rifle. Of course, one could argue this does not take my time into account and while that is true, this is all part of the hobby of reloading. One does not start reloading to account for one's time. Obviously, YMMV, but this is typical of the savings that I have seen through the years. Once the equipment is paid for via savings, then the savings are real and easily quantified.

 

[billt460]

I'm running 2 Dillon presses, but I still would not be without my Rock Chucker. For Large Magnum rifle calibers a progressive press is not necessary.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: billt460
I'm running 2 Dillon presses, but I still would not be without my Rock Chucker. For Large Magnum rifle calibers a progressive press is not necessary.

I have the Hornady Ammo Factory, but haven't even really used it, because I don't have any rounds it really makes sense for and they don't make a holder for .338LM for it yet last time I checked. My buddy was supposed to use it for .223 but he hasn't got his load figured out yet so...

I have a single stage RCBS that I was generously given by 2015_PSD, which actually got me into reloading, that I use for that calibre (.338LM). It's had the most use out of anything.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: billt460
I'm running 2 Dillon presses, but I still would not be without my Rock Chucker. For Large Magnum rifle calibers a progressive press is not necessary.
No; but it still makes it easier than single stage reloading. With that said, I will either pick up a Dillon BL550 or a Redding T-7 in the near future for my .300WM (though I have the stuff to load it on my XL650)--sometimes single stage reloading can be enjoyable. I have Wilson arbor press and dies for some of my varmint calbers--very accurate ammunition created from that setup.

 

[JHZR2]

SO, Im pretty set on wet tumbling with SS pins. Minimizing exposure to lead dust is key to me.

There's a local shop that has a pretty decent all inclusive deal, including 500 of their poly coated bullets, 500 primers, scale, 1lb of powder, corncob tumbler, Dillon 550C, set of dillon carbide dies, caliber exchange kit, DVD, Lee reloading manual, and a 2.5hr class for $819.

Sort of tempted to go that route, though the Hornady with the auto indexing seems smart for the lock and load design and auto indexing, so I dont double charge.

I swing back and forth on the value of getting a single stage press. I think it may come down to case prep. Might be useful to have a single stage and then do the following:

1) wet tumble to remove most hazardous residues
2) decap with generic die in single stage
3) resize in single stage
4) wet tumble again to remove lube

I guess that could be done on a Dillon with a different toolhead instead of single stage.

Reason to do this upfront would be to add a powder check die in a spot, which is what worries me the most - messing up and double charging. Then on the press you have prime and powder fill, powder check, seat bullet, crimp/

I may well be making the case for the Hornady given the five stations adds a lot of flexibility.

Anyway, more to learn...

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I swing back and forth on the value of getting a single stage press. I think it may come down to case prep. Might be useful to have a single stage and then do the following:

1) wet tumble to remove most hazardous residues
2) decap with generic die in single stage
3) resize in single stage
4) wet tumble again to remove lube

I guess that could be done on a Dillon with a different toolhead instead of single stage.

Reason to do this upfront would be to add a powder check die in a spot, which is what worries me the most - messing up and double charging. Then on the press you have prime and powder fill, powder check, seat bullet, crimp.
Dillon has the best warranty in the business hands down. If it were me, I would seriously look at the 550C. The beauty of the Dillon system is the changeable toolheads. This saves lots of time because you can set the toolhead up once and be done--you can also use a toolhead for decapping, etc. The 550C has 4 positions and station three could be used for a powder check, though if you add LED lights and a small mirror you can easily see a double charge should it happen. Alternately, if this is a long term hobby/investment, the 650 has 5 stations and auto-indexes. Even without autoindexing on the 550, it will still be faster than a single stage and multiple separate operations. Many options out there...