Well then, I'll say it. "I'm dumb enough".
The current state of the EV industry.
- Thread starter Torrid
- Start date
Honestly the only way I could see this happening is if it starts cutting into auto manufacturer profits and the lobbyists start leaning on their people. Right now manufacturers have just been passing on the costs to the consumer.
And that’s why now that I can make do with a hatch back and an EV I did so. The 17 mpg figure (which is what my 5.0 F150 did) for 150k miles is the MSRP of a base GTI. At 13mpg that pays for the Tesla. Sure the Tesla might be worth nothing at the end of 150k miles, but I can’t get money back from fuel either.
Man that’s a crazy number for 13mpg.
Agreed. I don't think rolling it back is the answer, but creating unobtainable goals doesn't make any sense and like always we the consumer end up bearing the brunt of it. Diesel trucks is one that comes to mind. Did the new emissions standards clean up emissions? Yes. Did they also send more diesel trucks to the junkyard before the end of their "useful life"? Also yes.
No, I’m saying for air quality if nothing else was changed. The emission systems would likely be even more nuts to combat it if we relaxed CAFE.
Toyota is big, it can't be gambling its entire company like Elon did to Tesla. Toyota is doing what is best for their size and the market they serve, and that's working well for them. Plus their argument is right. For the same amount of battery they can build more hybrids to save the environment more, than replacing fewer vehicles with all EVs. It is a win win if you are rational about it.
No, of course not gambling the entire brand, but their attempt at EVs was a throwaway weak attempt. They’ve always kept their reliability with running old tech. That’s why they tend to be less efficient than the competition with some cases their hybrids get the same or poorer fuel economy than full ICE competition. I don’t think anyone is going to thrive in this business tossing out what people already buy. Look at GM. They’re putting serious development in EVs and still releasing new full ICE vehicles.
I’m just not convinced that small adjustments for better reliability is going to be enough if the CAFE adjustments if they keep making such big jumps.
I'll add one final comment to this inexhaustible kerfuffle. I bought my first car almost new, a '60 AH Sprite so age gives me a different perspective on the EPA; I remember its birth. The agency began as an innocuous idea but over time injected itself into American society at the cellular level. It has become a hostile cudgel to compel compliance for dubious protections.
Over five decades this agency morphed into a feral beast and 'Chevron' will defang it (and others). The EPA may still be salvagable for its initial purpose mutatis mutandis. You can breath easy and your freedoms will be restored.
Don't fear a rollback, they are a good thing. Even at Walmart.
Over five decades this agency morphed into a feral beast and 'Chevron' will defang it (and others). The EPA may still be salvagable for its initial purpose mutatis mutandis. You can breath easy and your freedoms will be restored.
Don't fear a rollback, they are a good thing. Even at Walmart.
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I appreciate your optimism and love cars myself, but the only thing the history of the EPA shows is that it worked. Smog isn’t even close to what it used to be and we can all breathe easier these days because of it. They do need to slow the move, but I don’t see them rolling back standards. I do think we’d all benefit from allowing tech to catch up a bit. ICE isn’t there to continue the tightening and battery tech still needs some improvement to fill in that gap. If ICE can’t improve then it will eventually go the way of the dodo, but I don’t think it can be argued that we haven’t had cars that met this standard before. Everyone is just in love with large vehicles these days and CAFE goes off of vehicles built and sold, not the idea of the vehicle existing. Everyone wants the most for their buck, but instead of getting more vehicle for more money, it might be time to embrace some frugality especially when complaining about how expensive vehicles are these days.
My favorite is the VW forums complaining that VW doesn’t make what made them famous anymore. If people bought Golfs, Jettas, and Passats, we’d still have these cars everywhere. I’d love a modern interpretation of a Corrado, but I’d be 1 of about 12 buyers. We buy crossovers and SUVs as a whole now. All of our needs have somehow changed to something manufacturers can’t keep up with given the required standards yet continue to complain about how these cars they don’t buy no longer exist. No wonder our vehicles are so expensive these days.
People can complain the market changed, but the buyer changed. The market just reacted. This is the result.
Toyota. They make V6s that pull like I4s and suck fuel like V8s.
The future of four wheels is all electric
That might be true, but I don't see it happening anytime soon, half the cars on the road will be an EV in 2035 is probably more like 2060, and in a format that most people never considered. They are still in their infancy, along with the grid. The way things are moving I have my doubts. Now CA might be a different story, it always is. Here they're still far and few, the vast majority of people don't want any part of them, including dealers taking them for trades. Time will tell.The future of four wheels is all electric
www.goldmansachs.com
The air quality has never been better IMHO as long as you aren't in areas that trap or concentrate. It's not cars it the congestion of people. If we weren't burning oil it would be oozing out of the ground all over the world. Forget the term fossil fuel and look as a ongoing geological process.
I
obamawhitehouse.archives.gov
I know for a fact that can happen, the same way it was increased with the stroke of a pen. Vehicles today are more than clean enough and there is no reason to choke the chicken any further.
Obama Administration Finalizes Historic 54.5 MPG Fuel Efficiency Standards
obamawhitehouse.archives.gov
You know "more than clean enough" isn't going to fly. That's why I said what I said. It won't stop until you can't smell fumes from an exhaust pipe.I
I know for a fact that can happen, the same way it was increased with the stroke of a pen. Vehicles today are more than clean enough and there is no reason to choke the chicken any further.
Obama Administration Finalizes Historic 54.5 MPG Fuel Efficiency Standards
There's plenty of stuff that still uses oil. Even EVs use it for lubrication.
And always will be.
Well, you got your "all electric" and your "ICE only" theorists.
Perhaps the reality and future lies somewhere in the middle?
Perhaps the reality and future lies somewhere in the middle?
Out in my rural subdivision area along the river they are starting to trade in their electric golf carts for gas powered ones. There has always been somewhat of an electric market in motive power. But the same old same olds are the hold up, how to power. If EVs are to be successful then they need to do it on their own without subsidies or mandates. Last thing I want living 10 miles from anywhere and having high electric rates.
It sure is, one word Hybrid. The muskrat is going to be in deep doo doo if that becomes the preferred standard, I can get behind that. I mean he can always make Tesla E bikes.
People are getting well sick and tired of these over zealous green idiots and are demanding change and putting these lunatics out. No sane person want dirty air or dirty water, plastic in the worlds oceans etc but it is not about that anymore, it probably never was.
