The Cost Of Cartridge Filters Compared To Spin Ons

[Shel_B]

If a spin-on screws onto anything on the engine, and the filter is exposed, then it essentially "screws onto to engine" or "attaches - screws on to - the engine". Cartridge filters go "into a hole in the engine", and are not visible from the outside of the engine. Semantics.

You're making an erroneous generalization. I don't feel up to providing details and photos right now, but let me know if you want/need the information.

 

[ZeeOSix]

You're making an erroneous generalization. I don't feel up to providing details and photos right now, but let me know if you want/need the information.

What I said is the typical setup. Spin-on filters are always externally visible and screw on to the engine (ie, they "spin-on") - unless it's a remote filter mount, which OEMs don't really do. Cartridge filters are always installed into a canister/hole in/on the engine - and the cartridge is never visible when installed.

Sure there might be a few "odd balls" out there, but almost all are as I described.

 

[XJRiver]

At this price I'd be on a 25K oci.

 

[Enthusiast]

The other problem with cartridge design is that the housing are victims of being made from plastic in the interest of shaving a few ounces making them easier to break if you are not precise on the torque used to tighten them. The spin on is a superior design made to be quick and easy. The cartridge design is a step backwards.

 

[Bellavita]

The other problem with cartridge design is that the housing are victims of being made from plastic in the interest of shaving a few ounces making them easier to break if you are not precise on the torque used to tighten them. The spin on is a superior design made to be quick and easy. The cartridge design is a step backwards.

You are so right on both counts! We as consumers typically pay more for items that are more robust and/or make life easier for us. Which makes it even more illogical that the cartridge filter costs 24% more. The conundrum continues . . .

One thought I had was perhaps there is not as many competitive choices in the cartridge style which could drive up price. The spin on style has an incredible amount of offerings and price points.

 

[ZeeOSix]

One thought I had was perhaps there is not as many competitive choices in the cartridge style which could drive up price.

That, and probably the fact that they sell less cartridge filters compared to spin-on filters, so they have to charge more per unit to cover the design and manufacturing costs.

 

[wemay]

I much rather spin-on ones. Both vehicles currently owned use plastic filter housing type. I use a torque wrench to get it right because i'm afraid to over tighten and crack the plastic....oh sorry, i mean "composite".

 

[GON]

Last week I changed the oil on three cars right before dinner, a S550, S500, and a Acura RDX. The first two vehicles had cartridge filters, the rdx spin on. I used a pump to pull the oil from the pan.

All I can say is the cartridge is a dream to replace, when compared to the spin on. If one is using a pump to remove the oil, it is about as easy as clean as it gets. I can't believe how much more efficient it is to do a oil change on a vehicle with a cartridge filter. My back is thankfull for the cartridge filter also.

 

[Astro14]

Not sure why but some genius decided that a spin on filter was obsolete... probably a greenie

Some cars, like my 1981 Mercedes 240D, had cartridges a very long time ago. That diesel oil filter was huge. It was about the same size as a modern powerstroke filter. But it cost less, and was easier to change, because you pulled the cartridge up and out of the filter housing.

I wished back then that more cars had well-designed, large, easy to change, and inexpensive filters like that Mercedes.

Let me add that the housing was a robust aluminum casting with an o-ring to seal the lid. Never leaked. Never broke.

 

[John105]

Everyone likes to gouge cartridge filters, charging you more for less

Sometimes, the difference is due to economies of scale.

Also, the best filter for your Pentastar is the new Fram Endurance FE11665

Although Fram is the OE supplier to Subaru, they actually don't sell the Subaru bypass filter to the aftermarket. Therefore, you're better off with Wix or Full for now.

I think you’re on to something. Look at furnace filters. Mine went from 4 for $122 to 4 for $193. Even knock offs are $155. I think higher prices are indicative of specialness or just plain goodness (NOT!)

Having both in 3 cars, I prefer disposable to the cartridge. The cartridge has 3 more gaskets / o-rings for the installer to install. Imho more chance to fail.

 

[John105]

BMWs routinely need the oil filter housing gasket replaced over time, which costs either time, money, or both, but is a job absent in cars that have spin on filters

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

The general rule is 50% more for less filter! Its always puzzled me. But not to worry the 2022 Mazda has a spin on. Several cars got kicked to the curb because of the cartridge filter!

 

[Wrenchturner44]

So guys history does repeat itself. When I was 15 working at a Texaco station, small block Chevy engines (pre-1968) as I recall, used cartridge filters. I distinctly remember them being more expensive at the time as spin on filters had already been in use on lots of makes of the same vintage. I never understood the reason for this at the time why the cartridge filters were more expensive since they were simpler.

For those of you on BITOG that are young enough to ever hear that small block cevy engines had cartridge filters, I have attached a picture of one for you to see.

 

[Wrenchturner44]

So guys history does repeat itself. When I was 15 working at a Texaco station, small block Chevy engines (pre-1968) as I recall, used cartridge filters. I distinctly remember them being more expensive at the time as spin on filters had already been in use on lots of makes of the same vintage. I never understood the reason for this at the time why the cartridge filters were more expensive since they were simpler.

For those of you on BITOG that are young enough to ever hear that small block cevy engines had cartridge filters, I have attached a picture of one for you to see.

View attachment 157945

Oh, one thing I forgot to add, these things were a giant PITA to clean and re-assemble. Yes we had a Safety Clean parts washer in our shop, but they still were super messy to deal with, and yes many a mechanic left the old O ring on the block and would install a new O ring over it, and they would quickly see oil flow leaks because of their mistake.

My boss at the time made a special tool for picking out the old O rings.
It basically was a windshield butyl removal tool with a really sharp point. If you dont know what butyl is, Google it and find out how much fun that was to work with when installing a new windshield.

 

[GON]

Oh, one thing I forgot to add, these things were a giant PITA to clean and re-assemble. Yes we had a Safety Clean parts washer in our shop, but they still were super messy to deal with, and yes many a mechanic left the old O ring on the block and would install a new O ring over it, and they would quickly see oil flow leaks because of their mistake.

My boss at the time made a special tool for picking out the old O rings.
It basically was a windshield butyl removal tool with a really sharp point. If you dont know what butyl is, Google it and find out how much fun that was to work with when installing a new windshield.

Butyl is what GM used to seal the plastic sheet between the interior and exterior door of many of their full size FWD cars. Tar like stuff.

 

[Wrenchturner44]

Butyl is what GM used to seal the plastic sheet between the interior and exterior door of many of their full size FWD cars. Tar like stuff.

Correct you are GON, the stuff was horrid experience to handle and smelled even worse.

 

[John105]

Oh, one thing I forgot to add, these things were a giant PITA to clean and re-assemble. Yes we had a Safety Clean parts washer in our shop, but they still were super messy to deal with, and yes many a mechanic left the old O ring on the block and would install a new O ring over it, and they would quickly see oil flow leaks because of their mistake.

My boss at the time made a special tool for picking out the old O rings.
It basically was a windshield butyl removal tool with a really sharp point. If you dont know what butyl is, Google it and find out how much fun that was to work with when installing a new windshield.

Since we’ve already kicked around the concept of the lube tech…makes me wonder how many skip the three parts at least in a BMW oil change. The o ring is still a pita in the stem of the cap. It’s pretty stiff and tiny. The larger o ring for the rim of the cap, and the washer for the drain plug. I bet a good % of time these pieces are pocketed and the old parts reused. Ie spin on may be better. If it’s your own car you’d take the extra time for sure…

Butyl is a great thing. I used the 3M tape to seal my leaking garage roof, and it hasn’t leaked in almost 3 years now

 

[Wrenchturner44]

Since we’ve already kicked around the concept of the lube tech…makes me wonder how many skip the three parts at least in a BMW oil change. The o ring is still a pita in the stem of the cap. It’s pretty stiff and tiny. The larger o ring for the rim of the cap, and the washer for the drain plug. I bet a good % of time these pieces are pocketed and the old parts reused. Ie spin on may be better. If it’s your own car you’d take the extra time for sure…

Butyl is a great thing. I used the 3M tape to seal my leaking garage roof, and it hasn’t leaked in almost 3 years now

J105, the 3M product you probably used was a urethane based product....which is highly pliable and maleable for such fixes. Real Butyl of old days was a horible product but it did do its intended job. Urethane has been the replacement chemistry for some time I think, as I think original Butyl formulas have been deemed a carcinogen, and can no longer be manufactured.

I worked with the old stuff and would get it on my hands, and there was no solvent that would remove it. You literally had to wear it off......it was truly a horrible product.

 

[Bellavita]

Everyone likes to gouge cartridge filters, charging you more for less

Sometimes, the difference is due to economies of scale.

Also, the best filter for your Pentastar is the new Fram Endurance FE11665

Although Fram is the OE supplier to Subaru, they actually don't sell the Subaru bypass filter to the aftermarket. Therefore, you're better off with Wix or Full for now.

Thank you for both your insight and the filter recommendations! I checked out the FULL site and unfortunately their applications go to 2016 for the Subaru Forester and mine is a 2021. It appears their filters are made well but they don't an efficiency @ micron level. If you know them please share . . . thank you.

Do you have experience using the Fram Endurance? If you do please share. My Grand Cherokee is a 2019 with the 3.6. Excellent engine. I change oil at approximately 6,000 miles to line up with the Forester.

Thanks again!

 

[John105]

On this topic I had bought 3 kinds for my car, Mann, Mahle, and Hengst.

Looking closely at them, the middle one simply looked not as good, it had a giant seam. I thought doesn’t that not filter at the seam?

Anyway at the time, they were mfg in Germany, Austria, Germany.

Once Mann went to Mexico, I decided I’d use Hengst, and one day go to the Austrian Mahle.

Today Hengst is not made in Germany so I have no more ability to buy a Western European made product (would have to check on Mahle).

Point being with a spin on what I don’t know can’t hurt me inguess, never cut them open to see what’s inside