The Bridgestone tires just won't balance !

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My problem is the Bridgestone tires. Like I said in the other thread a Firestone dealer installed at no charge a new set of Bridgestone Dueler Alenza's and once again after a day or two,all though not as bad,the tires won't stay balanced. The Firestone dealer will balance the tires one more time possibly this weekend and if they don't stay balanced I'll have to go with another tire on their dime. Probably a Firestone Destination A/T. It's too bad because I like the ride comfort,quietness and handling of the Dueler Alenzas. I must say the Firestone dealer manager has been working with me. So far no problems with him. Although I'm sure he isn't happy about the situation. Especially that I bought the tires from the Tire Rack and not him. [ May 08, 2006, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Colt ]
 
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Wow.... what SUV do you own? If you're going after on road oriented, go with Destination LEs. They are confused with the Wilderness LEs on the GM Full-Size SUVs but they have nothing in common. I've seen a lot of SUVs with the Firehawk Indy 500 mounted on their rims. I heard those are good too.
 
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Wow! You're having some kind of issues there! I had the same issues with a set of Dunlop SP 9000 Max Performance tires. They just wouldn't work with my car. I have read that the Firestone A/T's are really good, nice and quiet with good manners. If you go with those, keep us posted. I am still on the fence and those are one of my choices. I just don't know what to do. [Frown]
 

Colt

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quote:
Originally posted by JeepZJ4.0: Wow.... what SUV do you own?
A '05 Explorer 4 door 4WD XLT Sport with the stock 17" tires. Didn't have any balancing problems before with the stock BFG Rugged Trail's. I wanted a better riding tires so at 12K miles I bought the Alenza's and sold the BFG's. The Alenza's were great in every respect except deep snow. wantin150 The Destination A/T's did get great reviews in the On-/Off-Road All-Terrain catagory on the Tire Rack site.Finishing second to the Bridgestone Dueler A/T Revo. The Revo isn't available in my size and I'm still in warranty. However I'm still hoping a second balance will work with these Bridgestone Alenza's. The steering wheel vibration is very,very slight. The Alenza's were the top rated tire in the Highway All Season catagory.
 
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Colt, I'm really interested in this situation, but could use a bit more detail. When you say the tires won't stay balanced, what do you mean? Is it that the tires are OK when you leave the shop, and then go bad the next day? If so, how are you sure the tires are OK when you leave the shop? For background, low speeds generally don't reveal tire uniformity issues (sort of like out of round). You have to get to 50 to 70 mph before tire uniformity can be sensed by a vibration. A tire can be perfectly balanced and still have uniformity issues. So I'm thinking that the route being taken home from the shop doesn't have a smooth road where you can exceed 50 mph, but the next day there is a stretch of road where either the road is fooling you info thinking that there is a tire induced vibration (There is one of those near my house) OR the road is smoother and / or faster than the route from the shop. It's also possible, that a flat spot is being generated overnight and that is what you are experiencing. The reason I ask is that I hear this sort of complaint from time to time and this is a good opportunity to learn what is really involved and - perhaps - find a way tp prevent this in the first place. So, if you would be so kind, I'd appreciate some feedback.
 
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CapriRacer, I know this thread is about Colt's issues but I would like to relate mine concerning the tires I mentioned above. And maybe you can shed some light. I bought a set of Dunlop SP 9000's from my local Goodyear to replace the stock Firestone SZ50's, one of which was damaged beyond repair (I picked up an 8 inch x .5 inch diameter hollow piece of pipe). I had approx 20K on the OEM tires. They were mounted and balanced and I drove off the lot almost $1K poorer (I used the stock 215-50-17 size on a 2003 Toyota Matrix XRS, stock rims.) They felt great during the 3 mile ride to the interstate. As soon as I got on the interstate, I felt a vibration once I hit 65-70. The vibration increased until about 80 and then became less noticible. I took them back the next day and they were re-balanced. Same situation on the highway. When the weekend came around, I took them back and the tires were "force balanced". Two of the tires had numbers in the high teens. The other two were "ok". Those 2 "bad" tires were replaced with 2 new ones. The tires were force balanced when installed and had "numbers" below 5. Even after all this, I still had the vibration at highway speeds. The tires were rotated and it kind of went away, or atleast was less noticible. Once they were rotated back, the issue returned. As opposed to going through all the hassle again (at this point I had a couple thousand miles on the new ones- replacements were about 4 weeks out on order), I requested that the tires be swapped for a different size and brand. Goodyear honored my request and I had a set of 225-45-17 Eagle F1's installed. I have not been back since, other to have them rotated (I have had 2 replaced due to foreign objects but that's not a tire problem). I never noted DOT numbers on the Dunlop's to check for batch problems. Although I am younger than some of the guys here, I have gone through quite a few tires in my driving career and have never had such and issue. I can't even begin to tell you how many 225-70-15 or 225-60-16 Eagle RSA's I have had replaced on Crown Vic's with no issues. I am anal about my tire choices and will replace a set in a heartbeat if there is a problem with 1 tire. Maybe some tires are just not compatible with some rims/vehicles. Colt appears to be installing an All-Season Highway (tread) on a 4 x 4. I installed a Max Performance summer tire when the OEM spec was Ultra-High Performance summer, so I went "up" in performance. I wouldn't think that this should/would be an issue unless there is an unknown interaction with the suspension with a grippier/less grippy tire. Sorry for the long post, just wanted to try to cover any issues.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by wantin150: CapriRacer, I know this thread....... .......They felt great during the 3 mile ride to the interstate. As soon as I got on the interstate, I felt a vibration once I hit 65-70. The vibration increased until about 80 and then became less noticible....
This is what I was describing. The tires had uniformity issues that are only going to show up on smoothish roads above 50 mph. So the tires weren't OK - the issue just wasn't apperrent!
quote:
.... I took them back the next day and they were re-balanced. Same situation on the highway. When the weekend came around, I took them back and the tires were "force balanced". Two of the tires had numbers in the high teens. The other two were "ok". Those 2 "bad" tires were replaced with 2 new ones. The tires were force balanced when installed and had "numbers" below 5. Even after all this, I still had the vibration at highway speeds......
Values below 20 should not cause vibration problems - What you have is a sensitive vehicle. There are a number of things that can result in this. I've heard of out of balance rotors and non-hub piloted rims, and I'm sure there are more. I'm particularly intrigued by the fact that all the tires were below 5. Those are EXCELLENT values!!!! AND YOU STILL HAD A VIBRATION???? Amazing!!
quote:
.....The tires were rotated and it kind of went away, or atleast was less noticible. Once they were rotated back, the issue returned.....
This indicates that the higher road force tires were going in and in of the sensitive positions.
quote:
....As opposed to going through all the hassle again (at this point I had a couple thousand miles on the new ones- replacements were about 4 weeks out on order), I requested that the tires be swapped for a different size and brand. Goodyear honored my request and I had a set of 225-45-17 Eagle F1's installed. I have not been back since, other to have them rotated (I have had 2 replaced due to foreign objects but that's not a tire problem). I never noted DOT numbers on the Dunlop's to check for batch problems......
This is not a "batch" type issue.
quote:
...Although I am younger than some of the guys here, I have gone through quite a few tires in my driving career and have never had such and issue. I can't even begin to tell you how many 225-70-15 or 225-60-16 Eagle RSA's I have had replaced on Crown Vic's with no issues. I am anal about my tire choices and will replace a set in a heartbeat if there is a problem with 1 tire. Maybe some tires are just not compatible with some rims/vehicles. Colt appears to be installing an All-Season Highway (tread) on a 4 x 4. I installed a Max Performance summer tire when the OEM spec was Ultra-High Performance summer, so I went "up" in performance. I wouldn't think that this should/would be an issue unless there is an unknown interaction with the suspension with a grippier/less grippy tire. Sorry for the long post, just wanted to try to cover any issues.
I do not think this "compatibility" issue exists. I think this comes up as an explanation simply because folks don't have any other way to explain what happened. My background says that this is not possible and I'm hopefully that these series of posts will help me better understand what is reallly going on. Thanks so much. Johnny 5 says: More input!
 

Colt

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quote:
Originally posted by CapriRacer: Colt, I'm really interested in this situation, but could use a bit more detail. When you say the tires won't stay balanced, what do you mean? Is it that the tires are OK when you leave the shop, and then go bad the next day? If so, how are you sure the tires are OK when you leave the shop? For background, low speeds generally don't reveal tire uniformity issues (sort of like out of round). You have to get to 50 to 70 mph before tire uniformity can be sensed by a vibration. A tire can be perfectly balanced and still have uniformity issues. So I'm thinking that the route being taken home from the shop doesn't have a smooth road where you can exceed 50 mph, but the next day there is a stretch of road where either the road is fooling you info thinking that there is a tire induced vibration (There is one of those near my house) OR the road is smoother and / or faster than the route from the shop. It's also possible, that a flat spot is being generated overnight and that is what you are experiencing. The reason I ask is that I hear this sort of complaint from time to time and this is a good opportunity to learn what is really involved and - perhaps - find a way tp prevent this in the first place. So, if you would be so kind, I'd appreciate some feedback.
The tires were fine after initial balance when leaving the shop. No vibration at any speed at the steering wheel. Problem arises the next day or so at 55-70MPH. Haven't gone any faster yet. The last set of Alenza's were fine for a few months and then had a problem with balancing. This set was the next day. Saturday the Firestone manager took the truck out to feel the problem and it was on a different road that I travel and he did feel a slight shimmy or vibration. There was some flat spot issues said on other sites when I did a search on Alenza problems. The flat spots would go away after tire warms up without any problems but there was no talk of any balancing problems on the Alenza's. These tires still cause a vibration even after warmed up. I believe the Firestone shop will try to balance one more time. Then maybe another tire brand/type will be the choice. At least as far as I'm concerned. As far as truck capatibility issue,I believe the Dueler Alenza is actually made for SUV's. The Alenza's are an expensive tire.I like 'em. Hopefully maybe a second balance will work but I doubt it. [Frown]
 
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CapriRacer, Since the newer set had low RF numbers, one concern of mine was a suspension/mechanical issue which had yet to be found. When the vibration went away with the different tires, I threw out the suspension concern and blamed the tires. I thought maybe the tread pattern and compound was causing the tire to react to every little road imperfection. I have no idea why I had so much trouble with that brand/model of tire. The Firestones were very "smooth" if you will and the current Goodyears ride very nice. Like you said, I just may have a sensitive vehicle. Or I may be overly sensitive to the vibration. I understand that a tire is (or is designed to be) universal in that it should work on any vehicle (obviously it must fit and be in the same general catagory) but that brand/model just didn't work for me. Thanks for your response(s) and maybe you can figure something out to prevent this issue in future designs.
 
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Colt, I hope you don't mind my questions. I really do want to understand the whole thing. My earlier post was a little long and asked some detailed questions that I want to explore more closely, so I'll do this step by step: My first concern is about the change between the first day and the second day. Is it possible that the vibration was there on the first day and you didn't notice it? Put a different way, were the conditions (road smoothness and speed) such that you can say with confidence there was no difference in the operating conditions? Thanks in advance.
 
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You're very lucky Firestone is working with you --since you didn't purchase the tires from them. Have you played with air pressure? My father had the same issue with Dueler HTs (poor tire) on a Bronco. They would never balance. We found that it was better when running lower pressure (aroudn 28 psi).
 

Colt

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quote:
Originally posted by CapriRacer: Colt, I hope you don't mind my questions. I really do want to understand the whole thing. My earlier post was a little long and asked some detailed questions that I want to explore more closely, so I'll do this step by step: My first concern is about the change between the first day and the second day. Is it possible that the vibration was there on the first day and you didn't notice it? Put a different way, were the conditions (road smoothness and speed) such that you can say with confidence there was no difference in the operating conditions? Thanks in advance.
No problem. I immediately felt the difference when the tires were first balances. I drove to the shop on the same highway road. kkreit01 I run 33lbs now and that 2lbs under the door sticker. Don't want to go with 28lbs. This is an Explorer. [Big Grin]
 

Colt

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Originally posted by CapriRacer: Colt, Thanks. Another question: When you returned to the tire shop on the second day and had the tires rebalanced, did they add, subtract, or redistributed the balance weights?
I don't know. I think they just took the weights off and rebalanced. They did rotate the tires 180 degrees,though. I'll probably be going back to Firestone early next week.
 

01rangerxl

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If the Alenzas still won't balance, I would go with the Destination A/Ts. I have them on my truck and love them. They are a very versatile tire. They are great on everything from the highway to dirt. Compared to other A/T tires, they are not bad in mud either. Traction in rain is very good as well. I have not had any balance issues with mine at all.
 

Colt

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Originally posted by 01rangerxl: If the Alenzas still won't balance, I would go with the Destination A/Ts. I have them on my truck and love them. They are a very versatile tire. They are great on everything from the highway to dirt. Compared to other A/T tires, they are not bad in mud either. Traction in rain is very good as well. I have not had any balance issues with mine at all.
Like I said in this thread or the other thread,Dest A/T's will be the choice if the second Alenza balance doesn't work and if the Firestone dealer goes with it. The second set of Alenza's are new.I'm told there's a 30 day return policy. I hope that applies to my situation. Thanks for your feelings on the Dest A/T's. It's nice to read you like 'em.
 
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Colt, Thanks. There was a tid bit in that post that said they did not have a Hunter GSP9700 Road Force machine and that was a valuable bit of info! So when you got the tires back after the first rebalancing they were better but not good enough, right?
 
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Colt, Thanks, but this is where it does not make sense. If they have the machine to road force the tires, then they shouldn't have rotated the tires 180 degrees (Unless the machine told them to, and then the machine should have told them that when they first mounted them!) Rotating the tires 180 degrees is a way of "hunting" for the right orientation. If they have the machine, this should not be necessary - or even desireable! While I agree that pretty much no one knows how to operate the machine properly, they pretty much all know enough to do the basics and this is fairly basic so far. But just to check this: Do your wheels have flange contour the kind of wraps around the bead of the tire for the entire circumference? And you can feel it in the gas pedal? This also doesn't make sense, unless the source of the vibration is really the engine.
 

Colt

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quote:
Originally posted by CapriRacer: Colt, Thanks, but this is where it does not make sense. If they have the machine to road force the tires, then they shouldn't have rotated the tires 180 degrees (Unless the machine told them to, and then the machine should have told them that when they first mounted them!) Rotating the tires 180 degrees is a way of "hunting" for the right orientation. If they have the machine, this should not be necessary - or even desireable! While I agree that pretty much no one knows how to operate the machine properly, they pretty much all know enough to do the basics and this is fairly basic so far. But just to check this: Do your wheels have flange contour the kind of wraps around the bead of the tire for the entire circumference? And you can feel it in the gas pedal? This also doesn't make sense, unless the source of the vibration is really the engine.
Looks like the standard edge. No rim saver edge on tire like on the wife's Toyota with Triple Treds or anything different. The rim edge extends past the tire about a 1/4". Forget the gas pedal thing. I know Firestone doesn't have force balance set up. Their machine isn't a Hunter. He did do a 180 rotation,tho. It's not the truck. Everything was fine with the old tires and every time I've had the tires balanced the vibration was different. Some places balanced and it was worse and some better. The Firestone manager said two of my stock rims were not true. The bad wheels are on the back now. Any problem with balance from the back tires is felt is your ***. [Smile] I just ordered two stock 17" alloys from directfordparts.com for $233 ea. [freaknout] List was $334. Cheapest price I could find. The front rims are fine. The wheels should be delivered to my house by midweek.Then I'll go to Firestone and see what gives.
 

Colt

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quote:
Originally posted by CapriRacer: Colt, Thanks. There was a tid bit in that post that said they did not have a Hunter GSP9700 Road Force machine and that was a valuable bit of info! So when you got the tires back after the first rebalancing they were better but not good enough, right?
I went to a shop that has that machine. They balanced the tire twice and the pronblem came back. I don't know if they did the Force balance option as the machine does a speed balance and optional force balance. I've read in one of the threads that some tire places don't have anyone that knows how to force balance. The tires right now are producing a slight to moderate steering wheel vibration. Better than before. All though I think I can feel it in the gas pedal. The worst vibration comes in at around 58-60 MPH. I want and should have no vibration at all.
 
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