The Base Oils vs. Additives Argument Takes Another Turn

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Jan 16, 2003
Southern California
According to this morning's Lube Report "the General" has weighed in on the supremacy of base oils in formulating superior finished lubes. Read it and weep, "Additives Rule" loyalists. [Wink]
[Off Topic!] Also from that same issue:
ExxonMobil on Friday announced that it was raising the posted price on one of its Group II-plus base oils by 15 cents per gallon, the first price movement in the U.S. market in two months. Other suppliers of Group II-plus and Group III oils followed with their own double-digit increases.
[Thumbs Down!]
Wow! The General's gunning for 30K mile OCIs and 150K mile "lifetime" severe service transmission fluids and gear oils. Pretty impressive goals. I wonder when M1 will become factory fill for all fluids (except coolant)? [Smile]
The jist of the article is saying that GroupII+ and above lubes will be necessary for most future lubricants. Fill for life is still, "Frill and Hype" IMHO. Looking at this in a macroscopic sense, new synthetic or higher quality conventional base oils require improved additive packages; you cannot delineate the two, since they act synergistically. You also have to realize that Lube Report and Lubes 'N Greases are rags for the general public and lube dealers.
I don't think the article reduces the importance of additives; just seems to say that certain desired properties in oils going forward will require better bases. I suspect additives will remain as critical as ever. To me, lifetime fluids = disposable car. I don't want either. - Glenn
Enjoy both theories of formulation using 100% veg based lubes. These esters and oils act as BOTH add and base. Get off the petro chem tit too!
You also have to realize that Lube Report and Lubes 'N Greases are rags for the general public and lube dealers.
I KNEW there was a reason I could read these AND they give me a free sub! [Big Grin]
With these new oils are we going to expect to pay a **** load of money to have our oil changed. Could we one day pay 10-20 bucks a qrt?
Ok, but what if the "Engine Oil Life System" they're depicting here INCLUDED a bypass filtration system of efficiency of say, a long-haul diesel? With gas engines, does a 30,000 OCI then become feasible/advisable? 20,000? 50? I have no idea, but to declare that you need a computer and synthetics, in effect, to reach 30,000 (or name the number) mile OCI tells me I'm changing my Mobil 1 WAY too often at 3000 miles!!! It also tells me they're full of it. I just wanna know where, absent a bypass filtration system, all the dirt and acids and residue are supposed to collect for the balance of the difference between the two intervals.. [I dont know] Am I out of line in my disagreement with that?
TC2Y: I recommend that you run an oil analysis with particle counts at the end of your next OCI. I think you'll find that there's a whole lot less "dirt and acids and residue" than you think, assuming you own a reasonably kept, healthy engine. Particle counts add about $20 to a Blackstone UOA. I was pleasantly surprised by the results.
Hey Polk.. Particle counts. Particles? [Eek!] I have particles??? [Eek!] [Eek!] Ok, ok...What particles? Metals suspended? Sludge dislodged? My engine has 158,000 and has been on a diet of Mobil 1 and a new filter every 3,000 miles since the first owner bought a new engine. It just looks so derned ugly, gooey and thick on the end of the dipstick starting about 2,500 miles that, I dunno, I start getting antsy. That's also about the time things get noisy for a few seconds at startup from cold, too. THAT is the real reason I change it so often. And, of course, prior to this last oil change I always used the product from Fram-Land. This was my first PureOne. I, of course, am the second owner.
Blackstone Gives particle counts in percent of total solids with the standard 20 buck analysis. It's usefull but there is also better analysis upgrades you can get with the particle sizes as Ekpolk describes. Unless you have a mechanicla issue you are changing that oil way to often.
toocrazy? What kind of car? What grade of oil? It sounds like you're only about 25 minutes away from me. We could meet up and I could check out your car for you.
My car (stop laughing, dammit!) is a 92 Hyundai. 1.6 DOHC. Guy I bought it from let the timing belt go at 88K. It broke or jumped time at 70MPH on the Capitol Beltway. Things came through the cam-cover, the hood, and went through the trany-case, according to the guy I bought it from. They replaced the hood. And the engine and tranny. New, in a crate, from Fairfax, Va. Hyundai. So, he decided he needed another car, they wanted to give him peanuts for it, so he puts it in the paper. I bought it for $1275.00, but tires, brake pads, and an Earl Schieb's on it, and have been driving it ever since. It has, after a speedometer replacement, 240,000 on the body, and about 158,000 on the engine which was replaced in 97. The engine doesn't burn oil, does 85 all day long up and down the east coast and doesn't seem to even breathe hard. Mobil 1 0W-40 winter, , 10w-40 spring and fall, 10 or 20W-50 in the high heat months (recommended by the factory). It shows clean on the dipstick right up to around 2500, and I usually change it at 3000, or 3500. It's really a re-branded Dodge Colt/Mirage, the 1.6 and tranny are Mitsu all the way. That's why I don't get into defending new Hyundais when the self-appointed upper crust here trot out their superiority complexes on the new Hyundais and Hondas. I don't know what the new ones are, but who can argue with 100K/10 year warranties? Besides, the cars certain peeps advocate over Hondas and Hyundais average 35 or 40 grand, and average LAST on customer satisfaction and reliabilty. Go figure. I figure I've put, I dunno, 40 or 50 grand more into my IRA and Roth since I bought this car eight years ago than if I was buying something new every couple of years. I have a motorcycle that will handle any car on up to 100,000 dollars, so cars don't thrill me that much. They aren't truth, beauty or justice. They're point A to point B. But I, like most here, get a heck of a kick out of keeping them, and keeping them cheap. I've been pretty good at it, but most of you doods have forgotten more about this stuff than I'll ever know! It sure was handy finding this place! Merry Christmas, yall!
Oh yes, Lumberg. Check out my car? What's to check? It's belongs in a museum! Jeez, next fall I can get Classic Car tags for it! Can you do UOA? I sent my info to someone for the little bottles they send, but haven't gotten them yet. Oil analysis has me very curious. I'll be interested to see what's blowing by the rings, and also whether this thing is eating the additives faster than some here might think. I have no idea, just a hunch that this thing is hard on the oil. It's a rev-happy car, 7 grand redline. Tiny engine, you have to spin it to get results. It doesn't see 7 often, but it sees 5 and a half.
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