I have the answer you seek. If you will answer mine. Is it farfetched or fetchfar?
TGMO 0w20 for tubrocharged cars too!
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Insurance salesmen would know that you can't prove a null hypothesis. It's up to the maker of the claims that it will always result in a 0W to prove.
stickybuns, re-read what I said...each of the additives will be at 50% of their original concentration. Their behaviours have to be both linear, and cumulative to give the same answer...I don't know that, and certainly CATERHAM doesn't.
Using Mobil's, Redlines, Penrite's brand against brand, same additives, no problems..naturally.
As to CATERHAM's assertion of hijacking the thread...in order of appearance...(FUCHS, BMW N20, Sustina 5W30, Sustina 0W20, Sustina 0W50)
stickybuns, re-read what I said...each of the additives will be at 50% of their original concentration. Their behaviours have to be both linear, and cumulative to give the same answer...I don't know that, and certainly CATERHAM doesn't.
Using Mobil's, Redlines, Penrite's brand against brand, same additives, no problems..naturally.
As to CATERHAM's assertion of hijacking the thread...in order of appearance...(FUCHS, BMW N20, Sustina 5W30, Sustina 0W20, Sustina 0W50)
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Using Mobil's, Redlines, Penrite's brand against brand, same additives, no problems..naturally.
Is "naturally" a scientific conclusion you've come to (you without a science degree as far as I know) or simply that you're now trying to weasel out of your initial baseless assertion.
If mixing two or more 0W oils, or 5W oils together or even 10W oils for that matter of any brand resulted in the loss of an oils cold viscosity rating category certainly ASTM D6922 or ILSAC GF-5 would deal with it. It's obviously not an issue despite you're efforts create one.
So what's your contribution been to this thread other than initially casting aspersions on TGMO 0W-20 which you are often wont to do?
And btw I'm not an "insurance salesmen" as if you would know although I have been involved in property and casualty risk management.
Using Mobil's, Redlines, Penrite's brand against brand, same additives, no problems..naturally.
Is "naturally" a scientific conclusion you've come to (you without a science degree as far as I know) or simply that you're now trying to weasel out of your initial baseless assertion.
If mixing two or more 0W oils, or 5W oils together or even 10W oils for that matter of any brand resulted in the loss of an oils cold viscosity rating category certainly ASTM D6922 or ILSAC GF-5 would deal with it. It's obviously not an issue despite you're efforts create one.
So what's your contribution been to this thread other than initially casting aspersions on TGMO 0W-20 which you are often wont to do?
And btw I'm not an "insurance salesmen" as if you would know although I have been involved in property and casualty risk management.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
That's assuming of course that the Cold Cranking specs remain 0W when blending two zeros...something that while we've discussed, has never been clearly demonstrated.
?0w has very well defined parameter .if a logo of saw say on the can and their website the oil is 0wxx the odds of it being a 5w would be slim .but let's assume you are right and eventually a 5w20 is mistakenly labelled 0w20
Most oil on the synthetic front perform so well I am surprised corp still bother making multigrade,sae 10 ,20 ,30 synthetic would have been a simpler affair the way I see it!
That's assuming of course that the Cold Cranking specs remain 0W when blending two zeros...something that while we've discussed, has never been clearly demonstrated.
?0w has very well defined parameter .if a logo of saw say on the can and their website the oil is 0wxx the odds of it being a 5w would be slim .but let's assume you are right and eventually a 5w20 is mistakenly labelled 0w20
Most oil on the synthetic front perform so well I am surprised corp still bother making multigrade,sae 10 ,20 ,30 synthetic would have been a simpler affair the way I see it!
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
So what's your contribution been to this thread other than initially casting aspersions on TGMO 0W-20 which you are often wont to do?
Your assertion, find where I have dissed TGMO (Farfetched, this is what I was referring to in the other thread).
You will find that I continually question the statements made wrt to this oil, because as far as I am aware, the sum total of concrete knowledge on this oil is an MSDS KV40/KV100, and a couple of UOA/VOA...the rest is ASSumption...but people talk confidently, and advise others on what this oil IS/DOES, and how it should be mixed with everything under the sun.
Your original claim for your brew was that you couldn't get M1 0W30, and had to make you own (with Mobil's blessing)....a matter of convenience, and unavailability. Now it's wheeled out as the answer to nearly all questions.
So what's your contribution been to this thread other than initially casting aspersions on TGMO 0W-20 which you are often wont to do?
Your assertion, find where I have dissed TGMO (Farfetched, this is what I was referring to in the other thread).
You will find that I continually question the statements made wrt to this oil, because as far as I am aware, the sum total of concrete knowledge on this oil is an MSDS KV40/KV100, and a couple of UOA/VOA...the rest is ASSumption...but people talk confidently, and advise others on what this oil IS/DOES, and how it should be mixed with everything under the sun.
Your original claim for your brew was that you couldn't get M1 0W30, and had to make you own (with Mobil's blessing)....a matter of convenience, and unavailability. Now it's wheeled out as the answer to nearly all questions.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
So what's your contribution been to this thread other than initially casting aspersions on TGMO 0W-20 which you are often wont to do?
Your assertion, find where I have dissed TGMO (Farfetched, this is what I was referring to in the other thread).
You will find that I continually question the statements made wrt to this oil, because as far as I am aware, the sum total of concrete knowledge on this oil is an MSDS KV40/KV100, and a couple of UOA/VOA...the rest is ASSumption...but people talk confidently, and advise others on what this oil IS/DOES, and how it should be mixed with everything under the sun.
Your original claim for your brew was that you couldn't get M1 0W30, and had to make you own (with Mobil's blessing)....a matter of convenience, and unavailability. Now it's wheeled out as the answer to nearly all questions.
You forgot the other important technical detail that TGMO 0W-20 was designed specifically for Toyota's. I mean that's what it says on the bottle right? So it must be true?? I mean it couldn't have been produced by the lowest bidder made to some specs created by a summer intern at Toyota in the lubrication department? No, that couldn't have happened. It's not like that ever happens in the real world....
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
So what's your contribution been to this thread other than initially casting aspersions on TGMO 0W-20 which you are often wont to do?
Your assertion, find where I have dissed TGMO (Farfetched, this is what I was referring to in the other thread).
You will find that I continually question the statements made wrt to this oil, because as far as I am aware, the sum total of concrete knowledge on this oil is an MSDS KV40/KV100, and a couple of UOA/VOA...the rest is ASSumption...but people talk confidently, and advise others on what this oil IS/DOES, and how it should be mixed with everything under the sun.
Your original claim for your brew was that you couldn't get M1 0W30, and had to make you own (with Mobil's blessing)....a matter of convenience, and unavailability. Now it's wheeled out as the answer to nearly all questions.
You forgot the other important technical detail that TGMO 0W-20 was designed specifically for Toyota's. I mean that's what it says on the bottle right? So it must be true?? I mean it couldn't have been produced by the lowest bidder made to some specs created by a summer intern at Toyota in the lubrication department? No, that couldn't have happened. It's not like that ever happens in the real world....
Stickybuns?this oil might not have been tested specifically but countless other have by various site,one is a researcher (it looks like)from Russia or that part of the world.his area of testing?extreme temperature.the other ?he use the good old bearing method ?its simple but repeatability is there so easily reproducible and verifiable .im sure if this oil has something worth mentioning either of those two tester will show it.and if I ain't mistaken both are bitog lurker
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
You forgot the other important technical detail that TGMO 0W-20 was designed specifically for Toyota's. I mean that's what it says on the bottle right? So it must be true?? I mean it couldn't have been produced by the lowest bidder made to some specs created by a summer intern at Toyota in the lubrication department? No, that couldn't have happened. It's not like that ever happens in the real world....
True, all (6??? if you count SM/SN) of them were designed specifically for the Prius/Tundra range, and differ only in basestocks, VII, additives and treat rates, and shear resistance.
You forgot the other important technical detail that TGMO 0W-20 was designed specifically for Toyota's. I mean that's what it says on the bottle right? So it must be true?? I mean it couldn't have been produced by the lowest bidder made to some specs created by a summer intern at Toyota in the lubrication department? No, that couldn't have happened. It's not like that ever happens in the real world....
True, all (6??? if you count SM/SN) of them were designed specifically for the Prius/Tundra range, and differ only in basestocks, VII, additives and treat rates, and shear resistance.
What I find very interesting is that Toyota Engineered and is building the turbocharger themselves instead of outsourcing it to any one of several reputable suppliers.
Is there a chance they are making this (and maybe future) turbos for their vehicles compatible with thinner oils? Is it possible that no existing supplier turbos survived development testing on TGMO?
It's a long shot, just throwing it out there.
http://m.autoblog.com/2014/07/07/lexus-turbocharged-four-cylinder-engine-nx200t-deep-dive/
Is there a chance they are making this (and maybe future) turbos for their vehicles compatible with thinner oils? Is it possible that no existing supplier turbos survived development testing on TGMO?
It's a long shot, just throwing it out there.
http://m.autoblog.com/2014/07/07/lexus-turbocharged-four-cylinder-engine-nx200t-deep-dive/
Originally Posted By: Blue_Angel
What I find very interesting is that Toyota Engineered and is building the turbocharger themselves instead of outsourcing it to any one of several reputable suppliers.
Is there a chance they are making this (and maybe future) turbos for their vehicles compatible with thinner oils? Is it possible that no existing supplier turbos survived development testing on TGMO?
It's a long shot, just throwing it out there.
http://m.autoblog.com/2014/07/07/lexus-turbocharged-four-cylinder-engine-nx200t-deep-dive/
Toyota has been making their own turbos for years, on some models. I'm fairly certain the 22RE-T, 7MGTE, and 3SGTE had some kind of Toyota CT series turbo. I'm not sure what they used in diesels, maybe someone who lives near diesels could comment?
What I find very interesting is that Toyota Engineered and is building the turbocharger themselves instead of outsourcing it to any one of several reputable suppliers.
Is there a chance they are making this (and maybe future) turbos for their vehicles compatible with thinner oils? Is it possible that no existing supplier turbos survived development testing on TGMO?
It's a long shot, just throwing it out there.
http://m.autoblog.com/2014/07/07/lexus-turbocharged-four-cylinder-engine-nx200t-deep-dive/
Toyota has been making their own turbos for years, on some models. I'm fairly certain the 22RE-T, 7MGTE, and 3SGTE had some kind of Toyota CT series turbo. I'm not sure what they used in diesels, maybe someone who lives near diesels could comment?
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
If mixing two or more 0W oils, or 5W oils together or even 10W oils for that matter of any brand resulted in the loss of an oils cold viscosity rating category certainly ASTM D6922 or ILSAC GF-5 would deal with it. It's obviously not an issue despite you're efforts create one.
STLE paper on cold temperature performance of lubricants.
Demonstrates that different PPDs have different effects depending on which VII and basestock is used.
Making a mix, which in all likelihood unless the same brew from the same manufacturer means that
a) there are now 4 VII/PPD interaction/compatibility issues, two of which were resolved by the oil manufacturers (possibility is that they found one of the interactions not beneficial)...thus my statement that sticking to (say) M1, Redline, is less likely to not end up with the W that you think.
b) each of the additives is potentially halved in concentration, and you have blind faith that two halves is as good as each whole, which is not necessarily the case...thus my statement that sticking to a manufacturer is more likely to get the anticipated results, as they are more likely using the same products, so you will be using closer to the original concentrations, not two halves.
I'm certainly rethinking my mixing, but at -11C the worst possible conditions that my vehicles will ever face, I don't think any VII/PPD is going to stop the oil flowing.
If mixing two or more 0W oils, or 5W oils together or even 10W oils for that matter of any brand resulted in the loss of an oils cold viscosity rating category certainly ASTM D6922 or ILSAC GF-5 would deal with it. It's obviously not an issue despite you're efforts create one.
STLE paper on cold temperature performance of lubricants.
Demonstrates that different PPDs have different effects depending on which VII and basestock is used.
Making a mix, which in all likelihood unless the same brew from the same manufacturer means that
a) there are now 4 VII/PPD interaction/compatibility issues, two of which were resolved by the oil manufacturers (possibility is that they found one of the interactions not beneficial)...thus my statement that sticking to (say) M1, Redline, is less likely to not end up with the W that you think.
b) each of the additives is potentially halved in concentration, and you have blind faith that two halves is as good as each whole, which is not necessarily the case...thus my statement that sticking to a manufacturer is more likely to get the anticipated results, as they are more likely using the same products, so you will be using closer to the original concentrations, not two halves.
I'm certainly rethinking my mixing, but at -11C the worst possible conditions that my vehicles will ever face, I don't think any VII/PPD is going to stop the oil flowing.
whatever 20 oils are for MPG's needed in the USA for CAFE, not for engine life. ford specs 20's in USA but 30's in europe same engines for sure. on a non forced innuction engine a quality group III dino oil legally labeled synthetic in the USA would be good. my choice is 10-30 needing less fragile viscosity index improvers that ALL dino oils use, the add pack is prolly better as well in a group III fake synthetic. pennzoil's GTL spec's, what they give look better than others
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