Texas Plans EV Chargers Every 50 Miles on Major Highways

Kiwi_ME said:
There are many old Nissan Leafs running around here on their last legs and the issue of biofouling has never arrisen. Hyundai/Kia have moved to a specialized coolant for the battery since 2020 which has a required change interval to maintain low conductivity. It's intended to reduce the risk in the event coolant comes in contact with cell terminals after an accident. Tesla owners just have to get out quicker.
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Nissan leafs on their “last legs”?!? That’s sad. They’re how old? I drive 40 year old Mercedes diesels anywhere without concern, and the leaf is on its last legs?

The leaf doesn’t use active cooling in the battery, only in the power electronics and battery.

Point is however, when these things start to get real penetration and become mainstream… and people get in a pinch and can’t maintain their cooling systems… same like an ICE… then what? The leaf isn’t even a statistically significant vehicle in the national fleet yet…

Have you developed high power actively cooled batteries that have to operate in harsh environments? I have. I’ve seen the long term issues associated with as cooling systems for electric motors and power electronics. Not great outcomes…
 
The point is that the problems you speak of are not occurring in practice. Without new batteries these early Leafs are not going to be viable. I have plenty of engineering experience including battery systems, you're not the only one here, lol!
 
JHZR2 said:
Nissan leafs on their “last legs”?!? That’s sad. They’re how old? I drive 40 year old Mercedes diesels anywhere without concern, and the leaf is on its last legs?

The leaf doesn’t use active cooling in the battery, only in the power electronics and battery.

Point is however, when these things start to get real penetration and become mainstream… and people get in a pinch and can’t maintain their cooling systems… same like an ICE… then what? The leaf isn’t even a statistically significant vehicle in the national fleet yet…

Have you developed high power actively cooled batteries that have to operate in harsh environments? I have. I’ve seen the long term issues associated with as cooling systems for electric motors and power electronics. Not great outcomes…
Click to expand...
The battery chemistry on the leaf also isn't particularly long-lasting in contrast to other modern EVs.
 
K.Aoi said:
The battery chemistry on the leaf also isn't particularly long-lasting in contrast to other modern EVs.
Click to expand...
They’ve been through a few. LMO and NMC cathodes… I think I had even heard about LTO anodes at one point.

Multiple didn’t have thermal management, causing significant degradation. These things are related. The degrading side reactions double in rate every 8C or so. You grow more SEI, consume more Li to non active states, etc.
 
Haha, isn’t it surprising that most people against EVs probably have never owned one, or even test driven one, even erev(phev). Prorbably 100+ Years ago people were saying similar things about gasoline engines that were set to replace steam engines… Ugh you need to get some «gazoline» at some station 80 miles away?! I’m fine with my bucket of water from well and some wood from bushes nearby… :)
 
Unlike in an out at the corner gas station. Sitting around for awhile to charge a battery is going to open many folks up to crime. In some areas its almost too dangerous to go to that corner gas station or convenience store. There will be gangs etc. hanging out at the charge stations, attacks will happen, cards will be stolen, and the cars themselves will be taken as well. Not many people that are alone will have the desire to stop and charge the battery. Charge stations will be the ultimate subway train station with all kinds of nefarious things going on. Lets see how accurate this prediction is in a few years. The difference between electric and battery's versus mineral fueled vehicles is the energy density, and the speed to add that energy density to the vehicle. A few minutes versus an hour or so.
 
K.Aoi said:
Think the blame for this should be on utility companies for not investing in upgrading/modernizing the grid over the last few decades. Utilities need to get their act together and start investing more in modernizing and upgrading the grid.
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The public are the ones holding back utilities.
The public pays for upgrades not the utility companies.
I never met anyone who wants their electric rates to go higher on speculation, if that was the case the answer was here for decades now = nuclear
 
SeaJay said:
In time, probably over a decade or two EVs will be dominant if I am not being too optimistic. Likely there will still be ICE vehicles on the road for a long time thereafter. Eventually after enough decades, ICE vehicles will be mostly gone.
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Maybe by 2040 EVs will make up to 35% of the market.
Not too much will change until an EV can generate its own power like an ICE or be recharged as fast as an ICE.
Anything else is almost going backwards in time, never mind the service life of ICE is longer than an EV right now.

I can’t see an EV battery pack lasting 200,000 miles or anywhere near that.
 
Exhaustgases said:
Unlike in an out at the corner gas station. Sitting around for awhile to charge a battery is going to open many folks up to crime. In some areas its almost too dangerous to go to that corner gas station or convenience store. There will be gangs etc. hanging out at the charge stations, attacks will happen, cards will be stolen, and the cars themselves will be taken as well. Not many people that are alone will have the desire to stop and charge the battery. Charge stations will be the ultimate subway train station with all kinds of nefarious things going on. Lets see how accurate this prediction is in a few years. The difference between electric and battery's versus mineral fueled vehicles is the energy density, and the speed to add that energy density to the vehicle. A few minutes versus an hour or so.
Click to expand...

The same can happen at a gas station too. You know gas station convenient store gets robbed all the time too? Also when EV gets old, their range drop and prices depreciate, they will one day become homeless vehicles if it is not worth replacing batteries (if they are just low end cars that are worn out and banged up). They will park at charging stations at night and use the power like a mini home. The only reason we haven't seen it yet is the earlier EVs have low production volume and are tiny. When they become big and retire from middle class, they will become homeless vehicles like worn out SUVs, minivans, and RVs today.

The better solution is to stay away from dangerous part of town and park at a "safer" part of town to charge, charge ahead just like you pump ahead and skip the bad part of town.

Oh, if in 1920s you say homeless people will live in a car in the future, people would call you nuts.
 
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alarmguy said:
Maybe by 2040 EVs will make up to 35% of the market.
Not too much will change until an EV can generate its own power like an ICE or be recharged as fast as an ICE.
Anything else is almost going backwards in time, never mind the service life of ICE is longer than an EV right now.

I can’t see an EV battery pack lasting 200,000 miles or anywhere near that.
Click to expand...
Not sure about 2030, 2040, 2050, 2060, they are a long time from now and a lot of things can happen. Depending on where in the world and how far people commute, it can be anywhere from 2030 to 2060.

EV generating its own power is not an EV, it is a hybrid. The only way to recharge as fast as ICE is battery swap, it may or may not happen. Still, if that's what people desire it may happen like we have cell phone external battery pack today (for EV will be a box bolted down to the back of a pickup or a slot to slide into the car, or some standardized module to swap in a station).

Lasting 200K miles is not the problem, lasting 20 years is. We'll see how it goes, maybe the new longer-range cars will start in some long commute wealthy places then as they get old sold to lower-income shorter commute places as grocery getters, then retired as homeless cars or 3rd world mechanics rebuilding packs manually.

I still think it make sense for Texas to stay with plug in hybrid, Hawaii and Norway to use EVs, China to do plug-in hybrid and battery swap EVs. One day gasoline would be a luxury fuel reserved for nations with a real military to safeguard its source. Not every nation on earth can afford that.
 
JeffKeryk said:
My house is older, built in 1962. I had the house rewired and a new 200A service panel installed years ago. Otherwise I would never have considered a Tesla.
Perspective buyers ask about the car. The 1st thing I ask them is, "How you gonna charge?"
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Pretty much every Wawa around me has charging stations now. I guess you could technically still do it even if you can't charge at home. Wouldn't be ideal though.
 
Haven't seen it around here but I would think every new Auto Zone, NAPA,ORiellys et all would be installing charging stations and retailing power.
 
Here's what bothers me about the whole "use electricity for everything" concept ...

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/te...otential-rolling-blackouts-monday-2022-07-11/
And it's not just TX, but just about any state ... Here's a few more examples:
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2020/...-maintained-power-grid-is-still-terrible.html
https://www.timesunion.com/business...future-reliability-of-New-York-s-16672586.php

The entire US is plagued with concerns about the aging electrical grid, and eletrical power supply issues.

Why are we so Hades-bent to get the cart in front of the horse???

I'm not against EVs (though I don't want to own one, but I don't consider them evil).
I'm vehemently against placing more burden upon a power supply system that is stretched too thin already, and has demonstrated that planned rolling blackouts and unexpected power failures are becoming more and more common!

We don't have a good, reliable, clean power strategy for the US, and yet we're committed to using more and more electricty?
- "Renewables" will NEVER supply enough of the demand to make them the sole solution; not gonna happen.
- Nuclear has real promise, but too many folks fear the unknown (they're ignorant of the facts and rely on mythology and rhetoric)
- Our electribution distribution infrastructure is crumbling.
- Our major repair/replacement component supply chain is heavily reliant on foriegn nations.

Want a stellar example of hypocritical irony?
- many electrical commodity suppliers are encouraging (and some new building codes are requiring) HVAC cooling systems be tied to a network control system so they can turn off your AC in peak demand times so they can ease the load; rolling "cooling" blackouts
- yet many product companies are making goods and services available so they can use more electricty (EVs and charging stations)
How do we reconcile the fact that we have mandatory eletrical reductions to avoid catastrophe, and yet we build more EVs and install more places to consume the commodity????

I believe the long term solution to energy problems does include a massive input from electrical sources; it does make sense in the long term. But how can we expect success when we are enabling the demand side of things, with no signifcant improvement on the input side?


Would you build a house and start framing before the foundation is set and cured?
Would you install the drywall on the walls before the plumbing and wiring is done?
Why do we insist on making more demand on a system that is at the brink of heavy and repeated failure?
Why do we not invest in the SUPPLY SIDE first, and only after successful implementation/ungrades, then make the demand?

What is wrong with us ????
Wow - we are just dumb.
 
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dnewton3 said:
Here's what bothers me about the whole "use electricity for everything" concept ...

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/te...otential-rolling-blackouts-monday-2022-07-11/
And it's not just TX, but just about any state ... Here's a few more examples:
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2020/...-maintained-power-grid-is-still-terrible.html
https://www.timesunion.com/business...future-reliability-of-New-York-s-16672586.php

The entire US is plagued with concerns about the aging electrical grid, and eletrical power supply issues.

Why are we so Hades-bent to get the cart in front of the horse???

I'm not against EVs (though I don't want to own one, but I don't consider them evil).
I'm vehemently against placing more burden upon a power supply system that is stretched too thin already, and has demonstrated that planned rolling blackouts and unexpected power failures are becoming more and more common!

We don't have a good, reliable, clean power strategy for the US, and yet we're committed to using more and more electricty?
- "Renewables" will NEVER supply enough of the demand to make them the sole solution; not gonna happen.
- Nuclear has real promise, but too many folks fear the unknown (they're ignorant of the facts and rely on mythology and rhetoric)
- Our electribution distribution infrastructure is crumbling.
- Our major repair/replacement component supply chain is heavily reliant on foriegn nations.

Want a stellar example of hypocritical irony?
- many electrical commodity suppliers are encouraging (and some new building codes are requiring) HVAC cooling systems be tied to a network control system so they can turn off your AC in peak demand times so they can ease the load; rolling "cooling" blackouts
- yet many product companies are making goods and services available so they can use more electricty (EVs and charging stations)
How do we reconcile the fact that we have mandatory eletrical reductions to avoid catastrophe, and yet we build more EVs and install more places to consume the commodity????

I believe the long term solution to energy problems does include a massive input from electrical sources; it does make sense in the long term. But how can we expect success when we are enabling the demand side of things, with no signifcant improvement on the input side?


Would you build a house and start framing before the foundation is set and cured?
Would you install the drywall on the walls before the plumbing and wiring is done?
Why do we insist on making more demand on a system that is at the brink of heavy and repeated failure?
Why do we not invest in the SUPPLY SIDE first, and only after successful implementation/ungrades, then make the demand?

What is wrong with us ????
Wow - we are just dumb.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately our system is broken and we can't do much right these days.

It's been known for quite some time, far before EV's became a trend, that our infrastructure is lagging. But like everything else, nothing changes.
 
dnewton3 said:
Here's what bothers me about the whole "use electricity for everything" concept ...

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/te...otential-rolling-blackouts-monday-2022-07-11/
And it's not just TX, but just about any state ... Here's a few more examples:
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2020/...-maintained-power-grid-is-still-terrible.html
https://www.timesunion.com/business...future-reliability-of-New-York-s-16672586.php

The entire US is plagued with concerns about the aging electrical grid, and eletrical power supply issues.

Why are we so Hades-bent to get the cart in front of the horse???

I'm not against EVs (though I don't want to own one, but I don't consider them evil).
I'm vehemently against placing more burden upon a power supply system that is stretched too thin already, and has demonstrated that planned rolling blackouts and unexpected power failures are becoming more and more common!

We don't have a good, reliable, clean power strategy for the US, and yet we're committed to using more and more electricty?
- "Renewables" will NEVER supply enough of the demand to make them the sole solution; not gonna happen.
- Nuclear has real promise, but too many folks fear the unknown (they're ignorant of the facts and rely on mythology and rhetoric)
- Our electribution distribution infrastructure is crumbling.
- Our major repair/replacement component supply chain is heavily reliant on foriegn nations.

Want a stellar example of hypocritical irony?
- many electrical commodity suppliers are encouraging (and some new building codes are requiring) HVAC cooling systems be tied to a network control system so they can turn off your AC in peak demand times so they can ease the load; rolling "cooling" blackouts
- yet many product companies are making goods and services available so they can use more electricty (EVs and charging stations)
How do we reconcile the fact that we have mandatory eletrical reductions to avoid catastrophe, and yet we build more EVs and install more places to consume the commodity????

I believe the long term solution to energy problems does include a massive input from electrical sources; it does make sense in the long term. But how can we expect success when we are enabling the demand side of things, with no signifcant improvement on the input side?


Would you build a house and start framing before the foundation is set and cured?
Would you install the drywall on the walls before the plumbing and wiring is done?
Why do we insist on making more demand on a system that is at the brink of heavy and repeated failure?
Why do we not invest in the SUPPLY SIDE first, and only after successful implementation/ungrades, then make the demand?

What is wrong with us ????
Wow - we are just dumb.
Click to expand...


In WA state where electricity production is good due to abundant hydro power, the powers to be want to remove dams.

The timing couldn’t be worse.
 
Vikas said:
This is somewhat unrelated but I was watching a great program where it showed the top ten cities in USA every year starting at year 1900. Would you believe me that nine of out of ten used to be on the eastern side of United States? Do you know what tipped the balance and now more top ten cities are away from NorthEast?

I will give you a hint. There is some relationship with the current topic and the answer.

Bottom Line:- Things change. Eventually everybody adopts either willingly or forcibly.
Click to expand...
The advent of AC.
 
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