It's not "we" that are dumb. It's the politicians that we send to the District of Corruption. In many cases we don't have choices. Having said that, I agree with your entire post. Good job summarizing it.Here's what bothers me about the whole "use electricity for everything" concept ...
And it's not just TX, but just about any state ... Here's a few more examples:/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/4R5BZNHYX5PBBFPXENTS3D3LHM.jpg)
Texas grid operator warns of potential rolling blackouts on Monday
The Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT), which operates the state of Texas' electric power grid, on Sunday warned of the potential for rolling blackouts on Monday.www.reuters.com
California's Poorly Maintained Power Grid is Still Terrible | NextBigFuture.com
More than 270,000 California residents experienced a second round of rolling blackouts on Saturday. PG&E said rotating outages began around 6:30 p.m.www.nextbigfuture.com
Can N.Y.'s electrical grid handle major energy shift going forward?
The NYISO, the organization responsible for overseeing the state's high-voltage...www.timesunion.com
The entire US is plagued with concerns about the aging electrical grid, and eletrical power supply issues.
Why are we so Hades-bent to get the cart in front of the horse???
I'm not against EVs (though I don't want to own one, but I don't consider them evil).
I'm vehemently against placing more burden upon a power supply system that is stretched too thin already, and has demonstrated that planned rolling blackouts and unexpected power failures are becoming more and more common!
We don't have a good, reliable, clean power strategy for the US, and yet we're committed to using more and more electricty?
- "Renewables" will NEVER supply enough of the demand to make them the sole solution; not gonna happen.
- Nuclear has real promise, but too many folks fear the unknown (they're ignorant of the facts and rely on mythology and rhetoric)
- Our electribution distribution infrastructure is crumbling.
- Our major repair/replacement component supply chain is heavily reliant on foriegn nations.
Want a stellar example of hypocritical irony?
- many electrical commodity suppliers are encouraging (and some new building codes are requiring) HVAC cooling systems be tied to a network control system so they can turn off your AC in peak demand times so they can ease the load; rolling "cooling" blackouts
- yet many product companies are making goods and services available so they can use more electricty (EVs and charging stations)
How do we reconcile the fact that we have mandatory eletrical reductions to avoid catastrophe, and yet we build more EVs and install more places to consume the commodity????
I believe the long term solution to energy problems does include a massive input from electrical sources; it does make sense in the long term. But how can we expect success when we are enabling the demand side of things, with no signifcant improvement on the input side?
Would you build a house and start framing before the foundation is set and cured?
Would you install the drywall on the walls before the plumbing and wiring is done?
Why do we insist on making more demand on a system that is at the brink of heavy and repeated failure?
Why do we not invest in the SUPPLY SIDE first, and only after successful implementation/ungrades, then make the demand?
What is wrong with us ????
Wow - we are just dumb.
Texas Plans EV Chargers Every 50 Miles on Major Highways
- Thread starter buster
- Start date
Of course you are right; you are just being logical again.
Sometimes, no generally, it takes a catalyst to being about change.
Who knows where this will end up?
I feel the same way about the charging network; Elon incurred the cost to build one; what about the big guys?
The latest EV systems will add ~100 miles of range in ~15 minutes charging, still not equal to filling a gas tank but quite a step up.
Every 50 miles? Texas is huge! Now once you got all these little stations installed how do you expect it to be able to keep up with all of the Texans that might use it? Heaven forbid the tourists who come from out of area who need to services. How long will they have to wait for a charge? I mean lately there's been talk again that Texas wants to leave and be its own sovereign. I can't fathom the cost. I think last year the year before they had a winter that caused the grid to have lots of issues. What's changed between then and now? I'm tempted to take my yearly inheritance and go out and buy like 20 old Hondas from the 1990s. I'm not bashing the electrical industry; but I'm not too sure how people are going to handle having to sit down in a car and wait for so many minutes to get a charge.
I think you’ll find my posts a bit more informed than that. I’ve got plenty of EV miles under my belt. Also plenty of EV models. The diesel replaced steam because it was more capable from the outset, far more Capable.Haha, isn’t it surprising that most people against EVs probably have never owned one, or even test driven one, even erev(phev). Prorbably 100+ Years ago people were saying similar things about gasoline engines that were set to replace steam engines… Ugh you need to get some «gazoline» at some station 80 miles away?! I’m fine with my bucket of water from well and some wood from bushes nearby…
The same can’t be said for EV’s.
My recent 1250 mile 26 foot moving truck trip net 10.3mpg diesel. 10,000 pound cargo capacity. calculating energy use, An EV truck would require a 9800 pound battery to go 300 miles from 100% to 0%.
the diesel had 700+ mile range and I filed up twice.
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Plus they want to make it illegal to sell any new ICE vehicles starting in 2030. Let's see ... try to get way more EVs on the road, and before that happens remove 25% of the total electricity production in the state by removing hydro-power dams.
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Plus they want to make it illegal to sell any new ICE vehicles starting in 2030. Let's see ... try to get way more EVs on the road, and before that happens remove 25% of the total electricity production in the state by removing hydro-power dams.
But wait, there’s more!!
Green energy companies are buying farmland by the thousands of acres in Eastern WA to put up windmills and solar. In one deal a company has leased over 72,000 acres for this.
Those darn cattle can graze somewhere else. As for grains, they are developing insect powder to make in crackers. Tuesdays should be big days to look forward to.
That is why I did not say “all”. I believe topic was mostly in regards of passenger cars, not heavy cargo transport. Batteries are still too large and heavy for that application, yet. They may advance way far ahead in the next X years. 18 wheelers are better off hydrogen powerpant plus ability to charge like phev while driver is resting, at given moment. On the topic, lack of many chargers along hwys in TX is a reason I have 2 phevs and not bevs. I planned to replace Volt with bev and use it in city and to travel inside TX triagle, maybe soon it will be possible to go outside of triangle without much worry.
and AC, and data center, and heat pump / geo thermal heat pump, and heat pump water heater.
I can only speak for my own opinion.Here's what bothers me about the whole "use electricity for everything" concept ...
And it's not just TX, but just about any state ... Here's a few more examples:Texas grid operator warns of potential rolling blackouts on Monday
The Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT), which operates the state of Texas' electric power grid, on Sunday warned of the potential for rolling blackouts on Monday.
California's Poorly Maintained Power Grid is Still Terrible | NextBigFuture.com
More than 270,000 California residents experienced a second round of rolling blackouts on Saturday. PG&E said rotating outages began around 6:30 p.m.Can N.Y.'s electrical grid handle major energy shift going forward?
The NYISO, the organization responsible for overseeing the state's high-voltage...
The entire US is plagued with concerns about the aging electrical grid, and eletrical power supply issues.
Why are we so Hades-bent to get the cart in front of the horse???
I'm not against EVs (though I don't want to own one, but I don't consider them evil).
I'm vehemently against placing more burden upon a power supply system that is stretched too thin already, and has demonstrated that planned rolling blackouts and unexpected power failures are becoming more and more common!
We don't have a good, reliable, clean power strategy for the US, and yet we're committed to using more and more electricty?
- "Renewables" will NEVER supply enough of the demand to make them the sole solution; not gonna happen.
- Nuclear has real promise, but too many folks fear the unknown (they're ignorant of the facts and rely on mythology and rhetoric)
- Our electribution distribution infrastructure is crumbling.
- Our major repair/replacement component supply chain is heavily reliant on foriegn nations.
Want a stellar example of hypocritical irony?
- many electrical commodity suppliers are encouraging (and some new building codes are requiring) HVAC cooling systems be tied to a network control system so they can turn off your AC in peak demand times so they can ease the load; rolling "cooling" blackouts
- yet many product companies are making goods and services available so they can use more electricty (EVs and charging stations)
How do we reconcile the fact that we have mandatory eletrical reductions to avoid catastrophe, and yet we build more EVs and install more places to consume the commodity????
I believe the long term solution to energy problems does include a massive input from electrical sources; it does make sense in the long term. But how can we expect success when we are enabling the demand side of things, with no signifcant improvement on the input side?
Would you build a house and start framing before the foundation is set and cured?
Would you install the drywall on the walls before the plumbing and wiring is done?
Why do we insist on making more demand on a system that is at the brink of heavy and repeated failure?
Why do we not invest in the SUPPLY SIDE first, and only after successful implementation/ungrades, then make the demand?
What is wrong with us ????
Wow - we are just dumb.
Natural gas is not "cheap" in infrastructure and they also explode (see San Bruno pipeline explosion) once in a while. The call 811 before you dig is a real thing and sometimes, not often, they dig into gas pipeline and would burn down the whole neighborhood.
Earthquake fire are probably mostly caused by gas leak after an earthquake, so there's a serious risk there. One time I smell gas around my neighbor's house and called PG&E, they send an emergency crew there within 6 hours and did a midnight shift digging up driveway and replacing the gas pipe, all the way till 3am with a crew of 4. Yeah natural gas is no joke either. Some older apartment building intentionally not pipe natural gas to the kitchen so the range is electric (that's before the induction days), and skip water heater in each unit and opt for landlord paid / central water heating. I suspect it has to do with risk and regulation.
The biggest problem with our grid in NorCal is actually the power line starting fire in the summer season. Sure it may not handle the load if everyone is charging EV but that's something they can build and plan around. If they shut down your whole town because your powerline will cause fire and they can't handle the risk (no bankruptcy, no insurance, no gov taking your risk for you), then the only thing they would do is to cut the whole town out.
Yeah, EV is the last of your worry, and as I mentioned before, EV1 proves that politics is flexible if the technology is not ready.
My understanding is you can build windmills and still let the cattle graze under it. Now solar, depending on where you put it, might actually not be a big deal. Some of the not so valuable farmland in CA have been turned into solar farm and the water they would have used got sent elsewhere, so it is actually not a bad thing (you should see our farmland, many of them are so dry they can't all be farmed at the same time).
Insect is like lobsters, can be gross and can be decent, depending on what you grow up with and whether you know how to cook.
lithium is the most active metal on the periodic chart. There is nothing better or more energy dense. Battery tech is mature and we will see only incremental improvement from now on.
Abnormal heat in Texas - Tesla asks residents not to charge electric cars during peak hours — SUNDRIES
Tesla has asked its customers in Texas not to charge their electric cars during peak hours to avoid overloading the state's power grid. Meanwhile, the Texas
sundries.com.ua
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Hydrogen is a massive infrastructure issue because it doesn't exist by itself naturally in a manner that can be easily harnessed like fossil fuels. So, you have to crack methane to get it, or use electrolysis, or use high temp chemical decomposition, all of which require considerable energy just to liberate the hydrogen. Then there are storage issues, as hydrogen likes to leak, and transport issues, as well as fuel density issues, because methane is considerably more productive per cubic meter than hydrogen is, so you need more hydrogen to produce the same amount of power.
Currently, the vast majority of hydrogen production occurs with methane reforming powered by methane. That's less emissions friendly than just burning the methane and that's a fundamental tenet of making this "green", eliminating and replacing both of those things, and we aren't even close on that front.
Potentially unpopular opinion: If we want to eliminate emissions from OTR transport, the easiest way, that doesn't require any breakthrough, is to go back to rail, just direct electrify it. Make trucking short-haul regional again, which is within the capabilities of current battery technology.
Yep. Unpopular with the car companies, among others, for sure.
Problem is much more complicated than this short post or this thread.Here's what bothers me about the whole "use electricity for everything" concept ...
And it's not just TX, but just about any state ... Here's a few more examples:Texas grid operator warns of potential rolling blackouts on Monday
The Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT), which operates the state of Texas' electric power grid, on Sunday warned of the potential for rolling blackouts on Monday.
California's Poorly Maintained Power Grid is Still Terrible | NextBigFuture.com
More than 270,000 California residents experienced a second round of rolling blackouts on Saturday. PG&E said rotating outages began around 6:30 p.m.Can N.Y.'s electrical grid handle major energy shift going forward?
The NYISO, the organization responsible for overseeing the state's high-voltage...
The entire US is plagued with concerns about the aging electrical grid, and eletrical power supply issues.
Why are we so Hades-bent to get the cart in front of the horse???
I'm not against EVs (though I don't want to own one, but I don't consider them evil).
I'm vehemently against placing more burden upon a power supply system that is stretched too thin already, and has demonstrated that planned rolling blackouts and unexpected power failures are becoming more and more common!
We don't have a good, reliable, clean power strategy for the US, and yet we're committed to using more and more electricty?
- "Renewables" will NEVER supply enough of the demand to make them the sole solution; not gonna happen.
- Nuclear has real promise, but too many folks fear the unknown (they're ignorant of the facts and rely on mythology and rhetoric)
- Our electribution distribution infrastructure is crumbling.
- Our major repair/replacement component supply chain is heavily reliant on foriegn nations.
Want a stellar example of hypocritical irony?
- many electrical commodity suppliers are encouraging (and some new building codes are requiring) HVAC cooling systems be tied to a network control system so they can turn off your AC in peak demand times so they can ease the load; rolling "cooling" blackouts
- yet many product companies are making goods and services available so they can use more electricty (EVs and charging stations)
How do we reconcile the fact that we have mandatory eletrical reductions to avoid catastrophe, and yet we build more EVs and install more places to consume the commodity????
I believe the long term solution to energy problems does include a massive input from electrical sources; it does make sense in the long term. But how can we expect success when we are enabling the demand side of things, with no signifcant improvement on the input side?
Would you build a house and start framing before the foundation is set and cured?
Would you install the drywall on the walls before the plumbing and wiring is done?
Why do we insist on making more demand on a system that is at the brink of heavy and repeated failure?
Why do we not invest in the SUPPLY SIDE first, and only after successful implementation/ungrades, then make the demand?
What is wrong with us ????
Wow - we are just dumb.
Problem first and foremost is decentralized system that drives cost up. TX is pushing this to the limit and it is case study what excessive deregulation does. Few years back when they had that winter collapse they argued how their network is designed for hot climate. Now , I am not sure what they will blame these rolling blackouts at, but they won’t say: yes, we need to rethink this.
And people blame EV’s even before they made a dent in usage.
TX gained a lot of population. But there is no infrastructure to follow that. I take my neighborhood as an example. Developer promised various infrastructure development in contract with city. Of course, they are behind in everything and city doesn’t really wanna do anything about it bcs. business, employment and other mumbo jumbo. That really got in focus after Boulder fire and the fact that neighborhood of some 3,000 houses has two exits. At meeting mayor said that unlike Boulder we take this seriously and we have a plan! What plan? Trust us we have it! Everyone realized that plan is off roading if something happens as both exits collapse during school rush hour.
That is how it goes with power grid and other stuff. It is policy issue and those who have access to policy making decide what will happen, and those are elected officials lobbied by businesses.
TX is prime example what happens with excessive deregulation. And it will keep going on.
And yes we could talk also why people need AC to maintain 68f in the house and not 74-75.
Politics can be solved one way or another eventually. The bigger problem with decentralized grid, or any decentralized infrastructure, investment , etc, is they would be much more volatile.
Look at it this way: if you have a grid that connect between 3 time zone and a major mountain ridge in between, you are literally load balancing across multiple time zones and climates to smooth out A LOT OF SPIKES. Sure you will lose like 40% of the energy in the worst case by every generator's output get sent 1000 miles away, but that's better than blackout.
Look at dedicated servers in a small company vs in the cloud, or dedicated single purpose server vs virtual machines: you have IT departments buying something and use it only on average with like, 20% utilization because you have to buy extra just for the peak usage need. If you have a large enough user base that they will not all be used at the same time, then you can buy maybe 30% extra instead of 80%, and let them average out the load (and if you are even bigger you can save some idle workload to use those 30% extra reserve or lease them out for a discount to offline customers).
Look at insurance policies, they need a large enough pool to spread out the risk otherwise they can go bankrupt out of nowhere. That's also the reason none of them will cover damage from a potential war when everything is bombed out at the same time, or most home owner insurance in earthquake zone is not covering earthquake (you need a special policy just to cover earthquake separately).
For Texas' grid, they are doing their own thing because they want no Federal regulations. I understand that they would be cheaper, but they will be trading savings for volatility, and if they don't want the volatility (of not winterizing, of not having a bigger "sink" to fallback to during emergency), then they have to either build their own idling capacity and doing their own winterization (at least enough of it if they are not winterizing to federal standard), or they have to face those blackout once in a while. Basically, they are "not buying an insurance policy, hoping that they will be fine and they will save enough money when things happen".
It is up to their residents to decide what works better for them, and probably never sign up for a no worst case guarantee rate plan that can bankrupt them in the worst case. There are grids like that in the world and many of them are in the 3rd world countries, I'm sure we can find examples on how their people handle them (they can handle them because life goes on despite they cannot afford the 1st world grid).
EV would not be their problem in the long term (it is a predictable load so they can build out accordingly, unlike bad weather, and most families would have at least 1 gas vehicle in the near future).
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I get your points. You can have three grids bcs. of reasons you mentioned. But decentralization is not only related to grid. France standardized nuclear reactors bcs. cost. TX no regulations BS is just that, a BS. They are far from being cheap, actually they are getting killed by bills. Remember that winter? The bills?
