Tesla sales and orders are killing it...

It's such a drag when people who have a lot to offer include politics, which taints their point one way or the other and only serves to get a post locked.

Like it or not Tesla is a creature of the state. It would not exist w/out direct taxpayer subsidies on the manufacturing (ie. Carbon Credits) as well as the consumer (i.e. Tax credits for first X number of new models sold) side. Not to mention the golden egg of Massachusetts vs EPA (2007).

Yes, I know Henry Ford was the first industrial titan to actively campaign for publicly funded road construction but that's besides the point.
 
Like it or not Tesla is a creature of the state. It would not exist w/out direct taxpayer subsidies on the manufacturing (ie. Carbon Credits) as well as the consumer (i.e. Tax credits for first X number of new models sold) side. Not to mention the golden egg of Massachusetts vs EPA (2007).

Yes, I know Henry Ford was the first industrial titan to actively campaign for publicly funded road construction but that's besides the point.
Not so sure I agree... Tesla did not ask for or lobby for subsidies. Having said this, other companies are entitled to the same subsidies; Tesla is not unique. And remember, Tesla built its own charging network; who else has? Looks like big brother will do it for them...

The point of my post was to keep politics out of BITOG.
 
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It looks like Tesla is going to have supply issues with aluminium. According to this news, Tesla gets their aluminium stock from Rusal, a Russian based company.


Not only aluminum, but raw materials in general are up 15% to well over 100% dependeing. Nickel (batteries) is up 130%.
Tesla is not in this alone, this affects all car makers, in fact all of us are dealing with these inflationary times.
There was such focus on semiconductors, but that was short sighted in my opinion. Procurement is an ongoing problem.

Higher material costs hurt, especially those manufacturers with slim margins.

For Musk personally, the Russia agression just might be a huge gain, as weird as it sounds. Russia is stopping sending rocket engines to United States in retailiation for our support of Ukraine. Enter SpaceX.
Some analysts seem to think the entire universe is trying to make Musk the world's 1st trillionaire.
 
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I was anti Tesla until I went to San Diego last year to visit my brother and borrowed his Tesla 3 performance WOW. I'm sold on Tesla
The Model 3 is amazing in all variants. Owners love 'em, warts and all. The hit on the 3 Performance is the 20" wheels and expensive rubber; not pothole friendly at all.
 
I am glad for Tesla for starting the EV revolution.

Now we get cars like this, the new i4 M50. Can’t wait to pick one up!
 

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Like it or not Tesla is a creature of the state. It would not exist w/out direct taxpayer subsidies on the manufacturing (ie. Carbon Credits) as well as the consumer (i.e. Tax credits for first X number of new models sold) side. Not to mention the golden egg of Massachusetts vs EPA (2007).

Yes, I know Henry Ford was the first industrial titan to actively campaign for publicly funded road construction but that's besides the point.
Other companies do take advantage of these incentive as well, just that Elon was the bleeding edge of going all in.

I would imagine the stake holders of Ford, Nissan, GM, Hyundai would not bet their assets all in to go big or go home. Elon, like him or not, sleep in sleeping bags on the factory floor to make sure the slaves are working like he did, and divorce his wife when her depression was dragging him down while the SpaceX launch and Tesla problems were overwhelming him.

How many others are willing to do all that just to get to Mars and build the best mass produced EVs in the world? At one point I think he was dumping almost all his networth into making these ventures happen. He knew he would be broke if he screwed up, no backup plan.
 
I am glad for Tesla for starting the EV revolution.

Now we get cars like this, the new i4 M50. Can’t wait to pick one up!
I love them (made a whole thread on them), but the iX is hideous, lol (also made a thread on that). A high performance EV with a proper HUD, leather, and interior appointments that one expects at that price point, I think the i4 is going to be a big hit.
 
At one point I think he was dumping almost all his networth into making these ventures happen. He knew he would be broke if he screwed up, no backup plan.
In early 2018, the Fremont Model 3 line kept stopping due to automation breakdowns. Musk, in his own words, over automated the line; they could not keep the robotics working. It was a near fatal mistake. Tesla was hemoraging money and Musk was nearly broke. In a desperate, last chance effort they erected 2 huge tents in the parking lot and set up mostly manual assemble lines.
The rest is history. 2018 was a banner year, we got our car in late December. Today Elon is, by far, the richest man in the world.

Model 3 production line in the Fremont parking lot, late 2018. My understanding is, Tesla made the tents permanent. Not sure...
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In early 2018, the Fremont Model 3 line kept stopping due to automation breakdowns. Musk, in his own words, over automated the line; they could not keep the robotics working. It was a near fatal mistake. Tesla was hemoraging money and Musk was nearly broke. In a desperate, last chance effort they erected 2 huge tents in the parking lot and set up mostly manual assemble lines.
The rest is history. 2018 was a banner year, we got our car in late December. Today Elon is, by far, the richest man in the world.

Model 3 production line in the Fremont parking lot, late 2018. My understanding is, Tesla made the tents permanent. Not sure...
View attachment 92710
Joking aside. We are seeing a legitimate reason why "temporary is the new permanent" in our society. There are so many red-tapes that we are starting to work around what "makes sense" as the straight forward solutions. Things like having electricians paid $10k to run some wires between panels and a socket, paying someone $8k to charge up a box with compressor and another box with an evaporator (AC) instead of drilling holes in the wall to hang a box, toss some hoses and cords out the hole, then connect them to another box outside for $4k, and finally keeping the rotten frame of a 100 year old house with the roof so you can gut everything including the foundation and call it a remodeling instead of a rebuild.

I saw FB was using tripods to hold wifi antennas as a "temp" solution so they don't have to hire all those construction union workers to do an overpriced job. They are temp after all and they only need some temp wiring solution for power and networking. It's ugly but cheap, who cares right?
 
Joking aside. We are seeing a legitimate reason why "temporary is the new permanent" in our society. There are so many red-tapes that we are starting to work around what "makes sense" as the straight forward solutions. Things like having electricians paid $10k to run some wires between panels and a socket, paying someone $8k to charge up a box with compressor and another box with an evaporator (AC) instead of drilling holes in the wall to hang a box, toss some hoses and cords out the hole, then connect them to another box outside for $4k, and finally keeping the rotten frame of a 100 year old house with the roof so you can gut everything including the foundation and call it a remodeling instead of a rebuild.

I saw FB was using tripods to hold wifi antennas as a "temp" solution so they don't have to hire all those construction union workers to do an overpriced job. They are temp after all and they only need some temp wiring solution for power and networking. It's ugly but cheap, who cares right?
Tesla put up the tents and were manufacturing cars in 3 weeks; quite a feat. At the time, it was meant as a temporary solution; the tent lines increased production by 50%. Musk said he learned that humans were underrated.
Since then, they have redone the foundation, wiring and pretty much everything. They even brought in a bunch of robots. Elon's methodology is to "build the machine that builds the machines."
 
Tesla put up the tents and were manufacturing cars in 3 weeks; quite a feat. At the time, it was meant as a temporary solution; the tent lines increased production by 50%. Musk said he learned that humans were underrated.
Since then, they have redone the foundation, wiring and pretty much everything. They even brought in a bunch of robots. Elon's methodology is to "build the machine that builds the machines."
I can definitely agree with that as it's hilarious how much faith some tend to put in AI. The human brain/body will never be outmatched regardless of what spin is put on it. Those that value AI on that level are just too lazy to make it happen themselves!
 
Not so sure I agree... Tesla did not ask for or lobby for subsidies. Having said this, other companies are entitled to the same subsidies; Tesla is not unique. And remember, Tesla built its own charging network; who else has? Looks like big brother will do it for them...

The point of my post was to keep politics out of BITOG.
We don't know what Tesla did or did not ask for. Of course other companies are entitled to the same subsidies however not all of them were in a position to take advantage of them nor could they afford it. Tesla had no choice but to build out it's own charging network and frankly it's not that impressive given that the equipment is comparatively inexpensive and it's a matter of just tapping into the existing grid.

As for "big brother" building it for them.. The industry doesn't need big brother to build it but it makes zero financial sense for every automaker to have their own unique charging stations. They could easily agree on a standard just like any other association (i.e. VESA, ACEA, USB-IF, etc) and move on from there.
 
Other companies do take advantage of these incentive as well, just that Elon was the bleeding edge of going all in.

I would imagine the stake holders of Ford, Nissan, GM, Hyundai would not bet their assets all in to go big or go home. Elon, like him or not, sleep in sleeping bags on the factory floor to make sure the slaves are working like he did, and divorce his wife when her depression was dragging him down while the SpaceX launch and Tesla problems were overwhelming him.

How many others are willing to do all that just to get to Mars and build the best mass produced EVs in the world? At one point I think he was dumping almost all his networth into making these ventures happen. He knew he would be broke if he screwed up, no backup plan.
They do to some degree today obviously. The nail in the coffin was Dieselgate and China. Dieselgate needs no explanation and China obviously want's to leap frog the West and become the primary supplier of the associated tech. It's political. After Dieselgate the german automakers were given hundreds of millions in subsidies to develop BEV's which w/out that support investors would not have approved.

Elon isn't the first to bet the farm. Plenty of people do this and don't succeed but we never hear about them. However, lets not forget that the amount of capital and regulatory support behind Tesla was unprecedented. Building Tesla was nothing like Gates w/Microsoft or Jobs w/Apple, etc.

As for traveling to Mars. It'll never happen until someone figures out how to build lightweight shielding which will protect the occupants from dying of cancer due to the cosmic radiation. We're talking exposure in the range of several Sieverts (Sv) which for comparison the max allowed for a worker is .05 Sv/yr.
 
EVs are never going to be mainstream or accepted because the majority of BITOGers have said so.............

And if I read it here on the internet it must be true......

LOL..Here's my proclamation. Once charging becomes commonplace at multi-family residences and pre-wiring is embedded in residential building codes BEVs will become mainstream.

The wiring requirement almost made it into the latest code revision.
 
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They do to some degree today obviously. The nail in the coffin was Dieselgate and China. Dieselgate needs no explanation and China obviously want's to leap frog the West and become the primary supplier of the associated tech. It's political. After Dieselgate the german automakers were given hundreds of millions in subsidies to develop BEV's which w/out that support investors would not have approved.

Elon isn't the first to bet the farm. Plenty of people do this and don't succeed but we never hear about them. However, lets not forget that the amount of capital and regulatory support behind Tesla was unprecedented. Building Tesla was nothing like Gates w/Microsoft or Jobs w/Apple, etc.

As for traveling to Mars. It'll never happen until someone figures out how to build lightweight shielding which will protect the occupants from dying of cancer due to the cosmic radiation. We're talking exposure in the range of several Sieverts (Sv) which for comparison the max allowed for a worker is .05 Sv/yr.
Mars would be a one way ticket for the rich aging boomers who trade their lifesaving for the rocket full of fuel. I don't see how space race could be funded without a cult targeting rich old dying people. Nobody will approve a war just to advance our space tech.
 
What did he take away? Ya got me on that one... Ha!
I knew you would ask, so here's a quick link:
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=Which+features+has+Tesla+removed+from+their+cars&ia=web

My first thought was "Free charging for life" for the early adopters, gone.
Then there are others, mostly software features. Some, nobody wanted, others, the Govt didn't like.
The one that really irks me though are the features that require a subscription. Terrible business model IMO. Now it seems that the rest of the industry like Stellantis, thinks that's a great idea. Why sell heated seats just once when you can charge an annual fee for them?
 
LOL..Here's my proclamation. Once charging becomes commonplace at multi-family residences and pre-wiring is embedded in residential building codes BEVs will become mainstream.

The wiring requirement almost made it into the latest code revision.
I find it hard to believe that apartment dwellers will be spending $60K on a car. When a Nissan Sentra (same size as a Model 3) goes for $20k.
 
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