We're all supposed to be adults, capable of making our own decisions. Maybe safety, our own and certainly others, isn't very high on the list of priorities.
Tesla has the highest death rate of any manufacturer
- Thread starter edyvw
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It's unfortunate that we live in a world where personal responsibility is lacking, to say the least. Tesla is no more to blame for a user misusing a feature than they are for an individual texting and driving. I do not own a Tesla, so if they do not offer warnings about the self-drive system, then I would be wrong.
No different IMO than the adaptive cruise in my 17 Outback. Pretty solid system that works well but I still have to do my part or I could end up in a negative situation. Lane assist on same vehicle I have to turn off as I often drive on tight backroads and Taconic Parkway where lanes are tight and you cross them often. Turned off as it is annoying but just as important is the yank it gives you back into your lane.
Maybe I'm off on an Island alone but to me a driver has to be a driver and as a driver you are responsible.
There's plenty of warning and disclaimers, but for some drivers they see it as safer than driving the vehicle themselves. That scares me for what their normal driving ability may be. I've said it a million times with any car my goal when not pushing a vehicle is to drive it as smooth as possible. I feel like that's an important skill, especially with passengers. I think a lot of that came from many years driving manual transmissions. I'm not a person that is constantly gunning the throttle through traffic and standing on the brakes up to a stop. FSD does not feel smooth to me. It's jerky and it makes me uncomfortable and I don't like that it makes me look like a bad, inconsiderate driver. That also doesn't account for the fact that FSD is to be supervised, meaning that if it's done a decent job for 45 minutes and something happens that requires intervention, it's a pretty good chance that the driver's response to take over will be delayed not being an active participant in driving the car. Some FSD proponents will argue this, but there's been many studies about the human brain and how it is affected by actively and passively being involved in a task.
I ride in a lot of cabs due to my job and most drivers are very rough around the edges when it comes to throttle, brake, and steering inputs. I've always been hyper sensitive to this as a passenger and to this day still makes me sick to my stomach at the age of 39. I thought they were just hiring bad drivers, but maybe this is pretty average and now people are buying supercar level acceleration in an electric vehicle and that may just amplify the output of rough inputs.
On another note this reckless and rough driving style probably accounts for the complaints of EVs going through tires fast.
In a crash Tesla has ranked in that realm, but as we see here it takes more than having a safe car. We need people to be safe drivers too.
First let me say before someone flames me by mis reading my post. I agree with you = "personal responsibility"
I do not think this is just a Tesla issue, I do think, I do know because of high HP of Tesla's and repair cost, looking forward insuring the vehicles (for those who care) will be like insuring many high performance vehicles. I say that because in some perverted way I read about gas savings with EV's but we leave out other costs, like insurance.
What caught my attention was your post about your 2017 vehicle. I have a 2017 Traverse and feel like I have been living in an alternate universe regarding technology. Other car was a 2012 Mazda 3, it was a second use type car, travels less then 5000 miles a year.
On Saturday (as I posted in another thread) we purchased a 2025 Chevy Equinox Gasoline. We also sat in, played with a contender at the same dealership a 2025 Chevy Equinox EV. I want to say the Equinox EV is an AWESOME looking vehicle. We looked at a pretty basic model, sticker was around 44k. The only thing not so great was the audio system. Forget all this though, my wife's choice was the gasoline Equinox version based solely on looks as they are 2 completely different vehicles with the same name. With a EV credit the cost would have been the same. (gas model also has Apple Car Play and Android Play)
...
Ok, anyway, she was to nervous to drive the Equinox home so I drove it. It's quite loaded with features, just over 4k in options. Talk about distracted driving!!! IT was crazy stupid as I tried to figure out all the controls, Ive been driving GM vehicle for at least 4 years now and Im hunting all around trying to find the Cruise Control, meanwhile I look at the speedometer and Im doing 70 mph on a 55 road with traffic lights, the screens and dashboards are now amazing ya da ya da. Side mirrors lighting up when a car is in the lane next to me (blind spot indicators) Never mind all this, its stupid crazy all the settings for lane asset, auto braking, auto this, auto that. Im only at the tip of the iceberg with learning everything it does. Surround vision cameras etc. My son has BMWs so I wasnt ignorant but this car has even more then some of what his cars have.
... so what I am saying in this yet, another long post is its not just Tesla, Tesla was maybe first but we humans are defective, we take a simple task of driving to new levels of complexity to drive to the supermarket or to work. *LOL* I am a big time #1 fan of technology and I am going to love this car but I CLEARLY saw how you can get distracted as you learn it. I do give GM credit for (both ev and gas) for its absolutely gorgeous long line of physical buttons to control the climate control system. The tactile feel of the buttons are spot on.
For the life of me I cannot imagine having to scroll through screens on that. Ill get used to it and love all the tech the screen is nice and large and I dont need to jump page after page for basic functions. Anyway, this is my first experience with a modern set up like this. I can see the distraction factor. I haven't got to play with the assist controls yet, there are what seems to be many.
BTW my insurance on the gas version 250/500 on everything and 1k deductible on comp and collision is $298 per 6 months. With that said I have a 840 out of 850 credit score. Zero tickets, zero claims. Im tempted for fun to enter the vin for an EV and see what it might be... but wont bother. IT doesnt matter though, we all know, higher performance cars cost more to insure. Not rocket science.
As Americans, we are like rodents, we get fat on food, options anything to distract us vs just practical items. The corporations have us figured out, it truly is "sell the sizzle" that is where the profits are, its impossible for the consumer to price out "sizzle"
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edyvw
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What is called, passive safety. Point is not to get into the accident in the first place.
It is like people renting 6,000lbs SUV’s at Denver airport bcs. snow. Not knowing that likelihood of getting into accident with that is more likely than with let’s say Subaru Outback. Or Subaru touting safety and than delivering absolutely crappiest tires one can find on their vehicles.
Volvo was always good in both, passive and active (not the best in active, but good).
My definition of active and passive I used was pertaining to driving itself, meaning actively driving the vehicle or passively as in monitoring the vehicle and intervening if necessary. I'm not a fan of passive driving in general.
You're absolutely right though on passive safety systems. I feel this is the best application for driving safety. Actively driving and using technology after that to avoid an accident in a lapse of attention or judgement and then having good systems to protect an occupant in the event of a crash. I think if a lot more people thought just a bit further ahead and took driving that seriously, we'd see a lot less accidents. Instead I get the impression that people are less involved than ever because systems have gotten so good about catching people making mistakes, yet the laws of physics still exist and these systems can't account for that.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
That would be defensive v. offensive driving.
Active safety are systems working to keep vehicle operating as designed: tires, brakes, suspension etc. Not, let’s say defensive driving.
For example, BF Goodrich Advantage T/A tires (which I unfortunately have on Pilot) have 40-50ft longer braking distance than Michelin Cc2 in wet. That is bad active safety performance.
Passive safety: seat belts, air bags etc. Things that come into play once you are in accident.
But, let’s not get into accident in the first place.
That is what I meant by people renting heavy SUV’s bcs. Snow. They forget or not aware that no one dies bcs. they don’t move forward fast. But bcs. they cannot stop. And 6,000lbs. never wins against momentum.
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Speaking for myself, if I were driving a long distance (like 800 or 1000 km, like we used to do regularly) with full self driving making all the decisions, I'd get drowsy, or zoned out, or whatever. If something really dangerous came up, or the FSD made a dumb decision, it could take me a couple of seconds to react. And that could be fatal no matter how safe my Tesla is in a crash.
So I prefer to leave the "free for a limited time only" FSD turned off and drive myself. I would like parallel parking assist however.
Tesla's lane assist works fine. On the setting I use, it only vibrates the steering wheel if you make a lane change without signalling.
So I prefer to leave the "free for a limited time only" FSD turned off and drive myself. I would like parallel parking assist however.
Tesla's lane assist works fine. On the setting I use, it only vibrates the steering wheel if you make a lane change without signalling.
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Lolvo is hardly a safety standard worth striving for.
20 to 40 years ago, sure! They were pioneers in setting many safety standards.
Nothing they offer these days is much better than the competition.
https://www.iihs.org/
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
In Israel last 25 years all new cars must have AC. Why? Safety, drowsiness. I personally don’t engage cruise control at all on long trips. If I get tired, time to stop.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
That would be interesting.
But, I am surprised Altima is not at the top with its famous “Altima energy.”
The article simply says the driver is responsible and is, by far, the critical path.
But let your personal bias run wild!
But let your personal bias run wild!
Spot on.
As far as warnings, there is probably no other car with as many messages, including visual, sound and touch. Sometimes passengers say, "What was that?" I tell them it's my car telling me I'm an ....
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
They are responsible in other vehicles too.
That is funny thing with data, it doesn’t have opinion.
in other thread you are pitching someones opinion as a fact, here you are arguing data is a bias.
every year, IIHS releases a report that breaks down fatalities by models..
read between the lines at your leisiure.
https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-death-rates-by-make-and-model
read between the lines at your leisiure.
https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-death-rates-by-make-and-model
FSD to me means you can hop in the back seat, tell the car that you want to go to a local Home Depot, or some other store and then hop in the back seat to take a nap until the car turns the engine off after parking in the closest space to the store. Then it sounds an alarm to let you know that you have arrived.
FSD is a long, long way away is my guess.
I generally agree about personal responsibility, except that Tesla over-hypes "full self driving" (the name alone literally is false advertising). "Everyone knows" it does what it says and all the warnings are just added by the lawyers. Just ask them! Until it plows them into a freeway barrier or a school bus.
Put differently, I believe in responsibility: both personal and corporate.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
So, NHTSA data is wrong?
They have per registered vehicles not per driven miles.
