Tesla has the highest death rate of any manufacturer

[edyvw]

OK, we were talking about this before, but here is the new study.
"Autopilot," "Full-Self Driving," and other fake advertising are IMO big part of the problem. Another part are other things where Tesla tried to reinvent the wheel: only screen in the middle, no turn salks, etc.

https://insideevs.com/news/741185/tesla-fatal-accident-rates-new-study-report/

 

[dbias]

Full self driving will never be a thing, unless the vehicle is on rails like a train. There are just too many variables to overcome especially due to construction zones, bad weather and odd variables that a human will perceive that no program ever will.

 

[edyvw]

Full self driving will never be a thing, unless the vehicle is on rails like a train. There are just too many variables to overcome especially due to construction zones, bad weather and odd variables that a human will perceive that no program ever will.

This death rate is called beta testing!

 

[Passport1]

Should potential Tesla buyers care? Caveat emptor.

The most concerning thing is how will this report affect the Tesla stock value? I expect not at all.

 

[MRC01]

The article says that the data shows that autopilot / "full self-driving" is a significant contributor. The very name implies what it should be able to do, which encourages drivers to stop paying attention. Yet it's false advertising. It works just well enough to encourage people to stop paying attention, but it doesn't work well enough to trust.

PS: I wonder if installing a Tullock Spike in every Tesla would improve the safety record. Or, for that matter, not just in Teslas but in every car.

 

[Mainia]

What about some of the dual motor cars that have the equivalent of 800hp and 950 ft lbs of torque or the more common speced Tesla's cars with 450hp/470 ft lbs tq. Add drivers that have not ever driven sports cars with sport suspension with that level of torque is also asking for some problems.

 

[SumGuy]

"Tesla has the highest fatal accident rate of all car brands, followed by Kia, Buick, Dodge and Hyundai, iSeeCars said. “The biggest contributor to occupant safety is avoiding a crash and the biggest factor in crash avoidance is driver behavior," Brauer said."

So how much does the car's user-interface and display placement contribute here?

"The car that topped the occupant fatality rate isn’t even electric. It’s Hyundai Venue, which reportedly has a fatal accident rate of 13.9 deadly crashes per billion miles driven, followed by the Chevy Corvette and the Mitsubishi Mirage."

 

[edyvw]

"Tesla has the highest fatal accident rate of all car brands, followed by Kia, Buick, Dodge and Hyundai, iSeeCars said. “The biggest contributor to occupant safety is avoiding a crash and the biggest factor in crash avoidance is driver behavior," Brauer said."

So how much does the car's user-interface and display placement contribute here?

"The car that topped the occupant fatality rate isn’t even electric. It’s Hyundai Venue, which reportedly has a fatal accident rate of 13.9 deadly crashes per billion miles driven, followed by the Chevy Corvette and the Mitsubishi Mirage."

The question is what exactly contributes to death rate in that particular Hyundai. Is it age of drivers, texting, or vehicles has poor crach test results.
Tesla has very good crash test results, so we can eliminate that as an issue. It leaves distraction. Tesla is far, FAR from being an ergonomically sound vehicle. The whole point of HUD system, same like in airplanes, is to have most important data straight in front of you. Tesla does not have that, and has all data in the middle of the vehicle. Add Auto-Pilot, FSD and you get this.

As for performance, yes, I bet it contributes some.

 

[dubber09]

Deathla? Why is it not surprising? Insurance companies will have to step in with higher rates. Then we'll see if Deathlas are worth the hype.

 

[macarose]

Actually, the article doesn't even mention the bulk of Tesla's data points for this study.

The greatest number of fatalities were overwhelmingly due to rentals. Specifically in the rideshare segment.

Hertz and others created what is frankly the dumbest idea in the car rental business. Let's give testosterone poisoned vehicles to inepxerienced drivers who stay on the road for hours on end and want to 'hurry up' to their next customer.

I sold a LOT of rideshare vehicles up until two years ago. They all went under.

Every... single... one...

Even with getting $40 to $50 a day for mostly Civics, Jettas, and Corollas, they couldn't make the numbers work.

Too many accidents. Too much damage. Too many vehicles absconded, stripped, and abused to the edge of oblivion.

And then there were those rentals which were given to other people and/or friends of the renter.

Eventually a few of my customers decided to self-insure less expensive vehicles, since the insurance carriers gave them sky high premiums, with all too predictable results.

Fatalities, bankruptcies, and dissolutions.

Hertz & Co. took the stupid one step further. Offering $50 rentals for $50,000 cars to inexperienced drivers with poor self-discipline who didn't even have $500 to their names.

The article is a laugh. The real story is the walking cartoons who were given expensive to repair cars with Ferrari levels of acceleration.

 

[ecotourist]

Tesla periodically offers a free trial of full self driving. I don't enable it because I prefer to drive myself.

I think of some of the close calls I've had over the years and if I hadn't been fully engaged I'd probably be dead.

The one place an assist would be nice is parallel parking. I used to be good at that but I've gotten out of practice.

 

[edyvw]

Actually, the article doesn't even mention the bulk of Tesla's data points for this study.

The greatest number of fatalities were overwhelmingly due to rentals. Specifically in the rideshare segment.

Hertz and others created what is frankly the dumbest idea in the car rental business. Let's give testosterone poisoned vehicles to inepxerienced drivers who stay on the road for hours on end and want to 'hurry up' to their next customer.

I sold a LOT of rideshare vehicles up until two years ago. They all went under.

Every... single... one...

Even with getting $40 to $50 a day for mostly Civics, Jettas, and Corollas, they couldn't make the numbers work.

Too many accidents. Too much damage. Too many vehicles absconded, stripped, and abused to the edge of oblivion.

And then there were those rentals which were given to other people and/or friends of the renter.

Eventually a few of my customers decided to self-insure less expensive vehicles, since the insurance carriers gave them sky high premiums, with all too predictable results.

Fatalities, bankruptcies, and dissolutions.

Hertz & Co. took the stupid one step further. Offering $50 rentals for $50,000 cars to inexperienced drivers with poor self-discipline who didn't even have $500 to their names.

The article is a laugh. The real story is the walking cartoons who were given expensive to repair cars with Ferrari levels of acceleration.

OK, do you have that data? If deaths are so overwhelmingly related to Hertz & Co, researchers would easily access that information.

 

[slo town]

The one place an assist would be nice is parallel parking. I used to be good at that but I've gotten out of practice.

Me too!

Scott

 

[macarose]

OK, do you have that data? If deaths are so overwhelmingly related to Hertz & Co, researchers would easily access that information.

No they wouldn't. You only have access to the data if you either sign an NDA or do consulting work for them.

ISeeCars did neither. I won't even get into the great brush strokes of unethical behavior that comes with just looking at a pool of general data without zooming in on more detailed information.

I co-developed the Long-Term Quality Index. I try very hard to make sure automotive information is precise and easy to understand. This article just makes a broad conclusion without asking the 'Why' and, more importantly, requesting those details before publishing clickbait.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Without detail, the numbers are meaningless. Feel free to let your bias run free.

From the article:

“The biggest contributor to occupant safety is avoiding a crash and the biggest factor in crash avoidance is driver behavior,"

and:

"A focused, alert driver, traveling at a legal or prudent speed, without being under the influence of drugs or alcohol, is the most likely to arrive safely regardless of the vehicle they’re driving."

 

[edyvw]

No they wouldn't. You only have access to the data if you either sign an NDA or do consulting work for them.

ISeeCars did neither. I won't even get into the great brush strokes of unethical behavior that comes with just looking at a pool of general data without zooming in on more detailed information.

I co-developed the Long-Term Quality Index. I try very hard to make sure automotive information is precise and easy to understand. This article just makes a broad conclusion without asking the 'Why' and, more importantly, requesting those details before publishing clickbait.

Accidents are public data.
They used NHTSA data adjusted for billion driven miles. So, where exactly did they do unethical research?
The fact is, according to NHTSA that Tesla has the highest death rate. Distraction is speculation based on crash test results. But, they could just use wide brush strokes and say: hey, it is an unsafe vehicle, period.

 

[edyvw]

Without detail, the numbers are meaningless. Feel free to let your bias run free.

From the article:

“The biggest contributor to occupant safety is avoiding a crash and the biggest factor in crash avoidance is driver behavior,"

and:

"A focused, alert driver, traveling at a legal or prudent speed, without being under the influence of drugs or alcohol, is the most likely to arrive safely regardless of the vehicle they’re driving."

It is NHTSA data. Drivers of other vehicles also drink, use drugs etc.

 

[fsdork]

The question is what exactly contributes to death rate in that particular Hyundai. Is it age of drivers, texting, or vehicles has poor crach test results.
Tesla has very good crash test results, so we can eliminate that as an issue. It leaves distraction. Tesla is far, FAR from being an ergonomically sound vehicle. The whole point of HUD system, same like in airplanes, is to have most important data straight in front of you. Tesla does not have that, and has all data in the middle of the vehicle. Add Auto-Pilot, FSD and you get this.

As for performance, yes, I bet it contributes some.

To render the possible contributing factors down to two (crash test performance and distraction) with no explanation as to how you got there is simplistic and blatantly biased.

I agree that the marketing language behind Tesla's driving assist features is irresponsible, given real-world performance of those systems.

 

[edyvw]

To render the possible contributing factors down to two (crash test performance and distraction) with no explanation as to how you got there is simplistic and blatantly biased.

I agree that the marketing language behind Tesla's driving assist features is irresponsible, given real-world performance of those systems.

OK, so they are just unsafe? I mean if we take other contributing factors: alcohol, drugs, texting etc. people do that in all cars.
Only two possible differentiating factors:
1. People did not used to EV power (there are other EV's, hence adjusted for billion driven miles).
2. Distracting factors in Tesla: no physical buttons, turn signals, FSD, and auto-pilot.

As stated, NHTSA has an open investigation into this. So, we will see if something comes up.

 

[demarpaint]

I heard the report on CNBC about it, I figured heads would be spinning here. lol I had an encounter with a moron in a BMW being chased by a Tesla weaving in and out on the SSP yesterday. The thoughts that raced through my mind followed by the cursing would take ten of us to hell.