Tech at 1 800 ASK MOBIL said T&SUV was NOT good for a car, even out of warranty

[jason07-1zzfe]

Yep, even Terry called 0w-40 something about really being 0w30

I would disagree about the excessive valvetrain wear however as even a 30wt is more than fine for the majority of engines (yes even ones that spec xw40). I don't think having a 30wt will cause excessive valvetrain wear.
I just don't see the point.

 

[drums57]

Ask five different tech at that Mobil 800# and you will get 5 different answers, the guys taking calls there are morons. TOO SLICK gives excellent imformation on this site , i like to what his background is he knows his stuff when it comes to lubricants.

 

[TooSlick]

George Morrison at AVLube is extremely knowledgable about the Mobil lubes (esp. Delvac 1 and 1300), but he works with large truck fleets and construction companies. You can't expect him to waste his time talking to individual car owners.

The M1, 0w-40 works fine for engines that are designed to use xw-30 oils. It's not the product to use in an application that required a shear stable, midrange 40wt. This would include high mileage worn engines, marine inboards, motorcycles or diesels of any kind. Even the VW TDI does much better with delvac.

I frankly don't understand the relatively higher iron levels with most of the Mobil 1 products? But you don't see it with their thicker formulations like the 5w-40 and 15w-50. I'd bet the 10w-40/EP (HT/HS of 3.9 Cp), would also give you a lot less iron in the samples. If you could actually find that stuff (you might locate Elvis first

), it would probably be even better than Delvac 1, since the 10w-40 is a friction modified, ACEA A3/B4 formulation and not a HD diesel oil.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Pablo - TS is a big boy, if he needs to defend himself there is no doubt he will! But sadly it is with this type of comment that mis-information is generated;

"The Mobil 1, 0w-40 consistently shows significantly higher valvetrain wear (Fe) than other competitively priced synthetics, including , Redline, Delvac 1, Royal Purple and the GC/0w-30."

Pablo, TS has never substantiated this and can't because it is a fallacy! If he thinks that substantiation is via minor incremental FE increases via UOAs then he is simply wrong. The facts are always confirmed by reality.

Then TS said this;
"I frankly don't understand the relatively higher iron levels with most of the Mobil 1 products?"

So Pablo he (TS) is either "confused" or perhaps excited about visiting down here to discus the issue with me in a peaceful environment over a shrimp on the barbie (or Ken?) a Croc or Kanga steak and some Shiraz!

Just this week I visited VW, Porsche, BMW and Benz Dealers who operate in our hot tropical climate. All use Manufacturer Approved 0w-40 oils as specifed and THEY HAVE NEVER HAD EXCESSIVE COMPONENT WEAR PROBLEMS, AND, NO WEAR PROBLEMS AT ALL WITH VALVE TRAIN COMPONENTS!!!
AT LEAST THREE OF THESE BRANDS ARE SOLD HERE WITH UNLIMITED DISTANCE FIVE YEAR WARRANTIES TOO

I have know knowledge of how Amsoil trains its people - they may be better or worse than average, I simply do not know
I do know that during the last fifty odd years lubricants have improved enormously. Sadly the knowledge of many people that use them and sell them has not kept pace

The lubricant mysteries and mis-information that exists within private workshops, Trucking Co workshops and etc has to be seen and heard to be believed. I work with many large trucking fleets and many use my Workshop and Driver Management systems and many have done so for two or more decades - I am "fortunate"? to have a intimate knowledge in this regard

My point is that on BITOG we should not promote mis-information or be cavalier in our comments. We surely do not want to become like the EM 1-800 Tech or some of the Amsoil dealers who seem to own the Internet now do we?

I do not work for or intend to promote EM or its products. I will continue to deal in facts. If I don't think I know I simply don't post

Ted - you told me you KNEW where Elvis is......

Regards
Doug

 

[John_E]

The initial high-temperature viscosity of Mobil 1 0W-40 or 5W-40 is 43 percent higher than that of Mobil 1 5w30 or 10w30. Yes, the 0W-40 evidently shears as it ages, but are you telling me that the xW-30 oils don't shear proportionately?

Disclosure: I have been using Mobil 1 0W-40 in my 2001 Passat 1.8T since the sludge memo came out. I have kept the same 6-month or 3K mi / 5K km OCI that I used with dino oil. I still cannot believe VW/Audi doesn't approve of Mobil 1 5W-40 and wonder if it's simply because Mobil didn't pay to have it tested and certified to 502.00.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
John E - Mobil do indeed have a M1 SuperSyn 5w-40 in Europe and this is Approved and Listed by MB, Porsche and no doubt VW-Audi and others

The Delvac 1 5w-40 is a Commercial oil and is marketed at Commercial users (I cannot comment on M1 T&SUV 5w-40)

I posed the question to ExxonMobil in OZ regarding ACEA Quality ratings for A/B Categories and Car engine Manufacturer Approvals. Their answer was "it is marketed as a Commercial engine oil for Heavy Diesel engines & mixed fleets and the API Quality rating (SL) suffices in this marketplace" (or words to that effect!
They and their Additive supplier said that it would far exceed most Car engine Approval standards!

M1 0w-40 has Worldwide acceptance and good availability - albiet at an inflated price IMHO
There is no doubt that it is an excellent product as are the other Manufacturer Approved 0w-40 lubricants from other Oil Companies

Porsche's only discrimination between 0w-40 and 5w-40 for year round use is that 0w-40 (their factory fill is M1 0w-40) is preferred below -25C. It is the ONLY viscosity Approved for year round use in the Cayenne V8 Biturbo, 5w-40 oils are NOT Aproved. I suspect this is for Turbo response, cooling, sensor, phaser and etc reasons
The range has either 20kkms or 30kkms or annual OCIs

Regards
Doug

 

[427Z06]

Why I'll be a one eyed dog in a meat house. I was messing around in the other threads when all the hootin' and hollerin' is taking place someplace else.

 

[TooSlick]

After 3000-5000 miles of use in any turbo, the HT/HS viscosity of the Mobil 1, 0w-40 will be about the same as for their 10w30 (HT/HS of 3.2 Cp). The 10w30 has a VI of only 147, which means it uses little or no polymeric thickener. So it's almost 100% shear stable, as any UOA will prove. The UOA's from these four cylinder turbos show NO advantage to using the 0w-40 over the Mobil 1, 10w30. None AT ALL....

The key information I post DOES NOT COME from Amsoil literature or training materials. It comes from 27 years of personal experience/observation using and testing synthetic lubricants under all sorts of conditions, as well as my extensive background in rocket propulsion and materials science and includes teaching materials science at the university level....

If any Mobil lube engineer would like to contact me off line and show me fleet test data that refutes anything I've said, I'll certainly keep an open mind. But the consistent shearing of the 0w-40 in turbocharged applications, and the relatively high iron levels - of most of the Mobil 1 formulations - are what they are.

Tooslick

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Ted - you said;
"But the consistent shearing of the 0w-40 in turbocharged applications, and the relatively high iron levels - of most of the Mobil 1 formulations - are what they are."

Prove it.......................!
Prove that these fallacious issues that you alone promote have been detrimental to any engine family. But please include the Porsche Cayenne V8 Biturbo data (12k miles OCIs) and all the other relevant parts of the fallacy you weave!

Not only M1 0w-40 though, but for all of the other Approved 0w-40 lubricants too - thanks!

Regards
Doug

 

[TooSlick]

Doogie,

Simply look at the past three years of UOA data on this site. Where do you think my observations come from? That's all the proof anyone would need to see...

Of course any 0w-40 will shear badly in a turbo and I intend to show this by running the Amsoil 0w-40/AFF in my Audi TT turbo; starting next month. I just send off a baseline sample and I'll be posting the VOA at the end of next week.

I'm going to post oil samples of the Amsoil 0w-40 every 3000 miles and show you how quickly even a $6.50/qt, PAO/Ester synthetic will shear down. I'll be very surprised if I can't get this Amsoil stuff to shear by 10%-15% after 6000 miles. I'll be glad to mail you hard copies of the analysis data if you want to serve as an impartial observer. I'm pretty shifty, you know...

regards,

Ted

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

---

I'm pretty shifty, you know...

---

Now wait a minute!! Do you have any proof that you're all that shifty?? Just what gives you this claim to fame? Got anything to back that up??

Beyond all that ..after my 12.5k UOA and the reduction in Fe wear in my 4.0 jeep engine ..AND thne reduction in price for the 5 quart purchase ..there will be nothing but T&SUV in my jeep engines for the rest of my ownership (which tends to be forever).

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

quote:

---

Originally posted by John_E:
Yes, the 0W-40 evidently shears as it ages, but are you telling me that the xW-30 oils don't shear proportionately?

---

That is correct. They don't.

:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000246