Is it OK to use either MMO or TCW3 in a premium fuel only engine? My truck takes 93 octane and runs pretty poorly using regular octane gas. I have actually tried MMO in the gas tank before and it did not seem to have a negative effect. I just put 4 ounces of supertech TCW3 into 21 gallons of 93 octane gas and so far nothing obviously bad happened. I'm wondering if adding the oil is doing more harm than good as far as maybe lowering the octane rating of the fuel, though I doubt just 4 ounces in 21 gallons could really affect things much.
TCW3 or MMO in an 93 octane fuel only engine?
- Thread starter lipadj46
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TCW3 is known to reduce octane - maybe a point or two at 1 oz per 5 gallons.
Per the Rich Kelly, Marvel Technical Director, MMO is Octane Neutral - it neither raises or lowers octane.
If you car is sensitive to the drop in octane, you should use MMO (I would anyways)
Per the Rich Kelly, Marvel Technical Director, MMO is Octane Neutral - it neither raises or lowers octane.
If you car is sensitive to the drop in octane, you should use MMO (I would anyways)
You will see a difference by the end of your first tank, give it a chance to start working! I currently use 1oz of TC-W3 to 5gals of gas and have gotten a 2-3mpg increase in both city and hwy mileage.There are a few threads on this, lots of info.It doesn't effect octane rating, it's an upper cylinder lubricant. It lubricates the valves and top oil rings. It's ashless and burns cleanly leaving no deposits.
Joe
Joe
Either will work, I prefer MMO. Don't exceed the suggested dose of 4oz/10 gallons of gas. If you decide to use TC-W3 use 1 oz/5gallons of gas. You can tweak the dose of either slightly up or down, just be careful you will see a power loss if you use too much, especially with TC-W3.
I have a pretty advanced scanner (land rover specific) that reads all the live data my ECM puts out. Is there any parameter I can keep an eye on to see if there is any pre-detonation going on? I'm using the TCW3 because my father had a gallon left over after he sold his boat. Figure I may be able to get some use out of it.
No idea what you'd be looking for, just keep the dose to 1 oz/5 gallons of gas and start keeping a log of mpg's. I actually found that too much TC-W3 means more throttle when taking off with a standard transmission. I could actually feel the power loss. I fooled around with it, not knocking it, just trying to stress how important it is not to OD with TC-W3.
Yeah that is why I only added 4 ounces. I may reduce it to 2 ounces next fill up and then do the same with MMO for direct comparison's sake.
MMO has to be used at a higher rate than TC-W3. I usually tell people to start with the suggested dose and work down from there with MMO. It takes some fooling around. Only downside for you experimenting now is the time of the year. They change the fuel over to winter blends. People tend to idle cars more when it gets colder, so naturally mpgs tend to go down as the cooler weather settles in.
Usually around November I increase the MMO dose slightly to compensate for the lousy winter gas. I figure MPG's are going to suffer anyway, but the added benefit of the UCL is probably worth it.
Usually around November I increase the MMO dose slightly to compensate for the lousy winter gas. I figure MPG's are going to suffer anyway, but the added benefit of the UCL is probably worth it.
My gas mileage is horrendous as it is so I don't even bother keeping track. I may buy a scan gauge one of these days but the TCW3 or MMO is just to keep things lubed/maintained. I'm not trying to pick up any mpg's just don't want drop too much or cause pre-detonation/knocking. Funny engines these Land Rover V8's, supposedly Buick flat tappet engines, I just did my head gaskets and cleaned up the top end so I want to keep it clean.
If you're not after MPG's then it makes dosing it a lot easier. I've used MMO for decades, never noticed any kind of pre-detonation or knocks and I OD'ed the engine many times on it. As I mentioned I did notice a lack of power especially with too much TC-W3. I'm not familiar with Range Rover, but I think if you're sensible with the dose you'll have no problems with either. Like I said before, the biggest problem this time of the year with cars that are sensitive to octane and fuels is the change over to the winter blends. It can be a real PIA, even for people who don't treat their gas. JMO
JHZR2
Staff member
I have a chip in my BMW that makes it 91 only. Running sunoco 91 with either has not caused an issue for me...
Your Rover's ecu will pull timing if you run a lower octane to prevent pre-detonation. Does your gauge allow you to read the degrees of timing advance?
Cheers,
Jeff
Cheers,
Jeff
JHZR2
Staff member
Even without a retard, as it is set up on my BMW, it should be ok, IMO. Significant ignition issues are telling of other potential issues, if there is an issue. I'd be very careful not to OD either, regardless, I've seen mpg drops as a result.
Most ECU have timing as a parameter to OBD scanner. Unfortunately it is extremely dynamic and unless you plot it against known driving cycle and then compare against another plot with the identical driving cycle, you will not be able to determine if ECU has retarded the timing or not. Besides that timing change constantly and OBD samples are quite slow.
As far as I know there is no static constant parameter which will give you timing retard computed by ECU.
- Vikas
As far as I know there is no static constant parameter which will give you timing retard computed by ECU.
- Vikas
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Originally Posted By: SL8R
Your Rover's ecu will pull timing if you run a lower octane to prevent pre-detonation. Does your gauge allow you to read the degrees of timing advance?
Cheers,
Jeff
Yes it does
Your Rover's ecu will pull timing if you run a lower octane to prevent pre-detonation. Does your gauge allow you to read the degrees of timing advance?
Cheers,
Jeff
Yes it does
how about taking a look at the knock counts with your scanner
Steve
Steve
It has a misfire count, do not recall a knock count.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Most ECU have timing as a parameter to OBD scanner. Unfortunately it is extremely dynamic and unless you plot it against known driving cycle and then compare against another plot with the identical driving cycle, you will not be able to determine if ECU has retarded the timing or not. Besides that timing change constantly and OBD samples are quite slow.
As far as I know there is no static constant parameter which will give you timing retard computed by ECU.
- Vikas
It's not in the "generic" OBDII datastream but rather the manufacturer specific encoded part. There can and should be a "retard from perfect" data bit; GMs have it and this fancy scan tool sounds like it should get it too.
Generic OBDII has timing advance which is maddeningly half the story. You can read this on a $50 scanner...
Most ECU have timing as a parameter to OBD scanner. Unfortunately it is extremely dynamic and unless you plot it against known driving cycle and then compare against another plot with the identical driving cycle, you will not be able to determine if ECU has retarded the timing or not. Besides that timing change constantly and OBD samples are quite slow.
As far as I know there is no static constant parameter which will give you timing retard computed by ECU.
- Vikas
It's not in the "generic" OBDII datastream but rather the manufacturer specific encoded part. There can and should be a "retard from perfect" data bit; GMs have it and this fancy scan tool sounds like it should get it too.
Generic OBDII has timing advance which is maddeningly half the story. You can read this on a $50 scanner...
My scanner is a hawkeye and it is a Land Rover specific scanner made by Omitec. Omitec makes the testbook system for LR dealerships. The scanner is a handheld stripped down version of their full diagnostic scanners but still does ABS, suspension, SRS, all electric switches, and a bit of programming. Obviously for only $600 it has been neutered (full TB system starts at $3k for the software and cables alone) but it can do some real useful things like open/close brake calipers, test each wheel's ABS, turn on and off every electric switch in the truck and read and clear ABS and SRS codes (plus a bunch more).
I will have to check the list of live data, there are around 70 live data points it displays which I doubt is the full list (you have to pay $3k for that not $600).
I will have to check the list of live data, there are around 70 live data points it displays which I doubt is the full list (you have to pay $3k for that not $600).
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