T-Rex .577 and BIGGER

[TechnoLoGs]

...and other big bore rifles.
up to 2581 fps & 11100 foot pounds w/ a 750 grain bullet... OUCH!!!!

Opinions?



I also see some of the .700 ........

 

[TechnoLoGs]

Here, also, is: The Guys from Knight Rifles "Americas Muzzleloader" Shoot the .950 JDJ .

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[Astro14]

Waiting for the 20mm rifle based on the M61....

 

[TechnoLoGs]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Waiting for the 20mm rifle based on the M61....


You like the Dillon .30-caliber Mini Gun like what was in Terminator 2?

 

[hatt]

Sign up at accuratereloading.com to see tons of video of people shooting bruisers.

 

[Robenstein]

Guns made for when you must absolutely obliterate, with extreme prejudice, every living creature on the planet.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Guns made for when you must absolutely obliterate, with extreme prejudice, every living creature on the planet.

IDK, they probably seem pretty weak when the critters don't bite, they stomp you to death.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Guns made for when you must absolutely obliterate, with extreme prejudice, every living creature on the planet.

IDK, they probably seem pretty weak when the critters don't bite, they stomp you to death.


According to an issue of American Rifleman sever years back, one of the top ivory hunters of all time, W.D.M. Bell, used a 7mm Mauser to kill the majority of the approximately 1k elephants he fell in his career.

Compared to that or the old standbys like the 375 H&H, 9.3x64, and the old Nitro Express rounds that the old guard used to hunt dangerous game in huge numbers, these are overkill.

 

[AMC]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Compared to that or the old standbys like the 375 H&H, 9.3x64, and the old Nitro Express rounds that the old guard used to hunt dangerous game in huge numbers, these are overkill.


Spot on! Any of the the 375 or 400 Magnums are as big as you would EVER need. The 460 Weatherby Magnum is severly overlooked here too. It is truely engineering/reloading genious that is easy to reload, the brass can be used many times and supposevely, only has a little bit more recoil than a 12G firing magnum slugs. It is one of the precious few rifle rounds approved by the International Whaling Commission for the safe and humane harvesting of whales. About the only downside to the cartridge is finding bullets strong enough to withstand the velocity and pressure! Solid bullets are almost the only choice a reloader has.

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.460_Weatherby

 

[Shannow]

Tyranosaur was intended to be the stopper when the paying hunter flubbed his shot and made said stomping beast angry.

7mm probably great for first shot kills, not so great for a possibly not well aimed shot at a charging bull elephant.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Tyranosaur was intended to be the stopper when the paying hunter flubbed his shot and made said stomping beast angry.

7mm probably great for first shot kills, not so great for a possibly not well aimed shot at a charging bull elephant.


That is why so many of the old hunters had two barrel rifles as well. Quick second shot. I am sure only a glutton for punishment would want to shoot these guns (like the 577 T Rex) on any regular basis. You would get such bad recoil flinch it would take forever to get rid of it with the old remedy of shooting a low recoil rifle to work it out.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: AMC


Spot on! Any of the the 375 or 400 Magnums are as big as you would EVER need. The 460 Weatherby Magnum is severly overlooked here too. It is truely engineering/reloading genious that is easy to reload, the brass can be used many times and supposevely, only has a little bit more recoil than a 12G firing magnum slugs. It is one of the precious few rifle rounds approved by the International Whaling Commission for the safe and humane harvesting of whales. About the only downside to the cartridge is finding bullets strong enough to withstand the velocity and pressure! Solid bullets are almost the only choice a reloader has.

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.460_Weatherby

LOL, I don't think recoil between a 12 and a .460 are comparable. Not sure where you got the lack of good bullets. Barnes X, Swift A-Frame, Nosler Partition, etc will hold up just fine. The reason you see solid bullets with the 460 is if you're using a 460 you're probably not wanting expansion, you want the bullet to get to pay dirt.

 

[AMC]

Weatheryby's muzzle brake combined with a heavy rifle, a good recoil pad and good shooting technique cut down on the recoil significantly. I have fired the .340 weatherby with the weatherby brake and it really wasn't as bad as I expected. I would say it had about as much recoil as a 12g firing light bird loads. I could see how the much bigger .460 would be worse, but not as unbearable as some might think.

Read the wikidpedia article, even bullets like partitions and interlocks sometimes fragment with the .460 and fail to provide good enough penetration. It happens because the bullets are simply traveling too fast and striking too hard of an animal.

 

[hatt]

From the wiki article:
"While poor penetration due to bullet construction was not limited to the .460 Weatherby Magnum, the issue was more magnified in the this cartridge than others due to the additional stress imposed on the bullet by the higher velocity of the cartridge as is the case with the .375 H&H Magnum cartridge firing the 300 gr (19 g) solids at 2,530 ft/s (770 m/s).[66] Using premium, stoutly constructed premium solid bullets similar to the Barnes Banded Solid, Hornady DGS, Nosler Solid, Speer African Grand Slam Solid and others have resolved this problem."

I didn't see much about expanding ammo other than don't use bullets designed for the .45-70. In any event, modern premium bullets will perform. What was a legitimate concern 40 years ago doesn't mean much today. If you choose inferior bullets and they fail that's not the cartridge's fault.

 

[AMC]

We are saying the same thing, we just worded it differently. In other words, because the .460 WBY produces high velocity, you are forced to use very strong bullets and that usually means solid bullets if you want the max penetration. All the bullets wikipedia listed are solids, re-enforcing my point.

This being said, some people may see that as a disadvantage compared to most of the older, lower velocity big bore cartridges that rely on heavier bullet weights to penetrate rather than higher velocity.

Either way the .460 Weatherby is a cool round that is very overlooked. The accuracy is usually 1 - 1.5 MOA and does not have the rainbow trajectory like most of the others also. The extended range and accuracy are amazing for such a huge round, capable of what it is.

 

[hatt]

I had a post written up arguing expanding vs solid and heavy vs light etc and then stumbled upon some stuff from Randy Garrent that was much more interesting. I knew the .45-70 with heavy hardcast penetrated a mile but...

Talking about solids:
“What is apparent from testing is that penetration stops increasing at impact speeds above about 1250-1300 fps. When the impact speeds significantly surpass about 1600 fps, there is a very definite and measurable decrease in penetration depth."

.45-70 for the win.

Link

 

[AMC]

Ok, that is one guy's opinion. From what I can find, the 45-70 GOVT can penetrate up to 35" in SOFT tissues. That is good enough for pretty much any game anywhere. Hard tissues of rhino, elephant and whale are a different story. The .460 has proven to penetrate 40" MINIMUM on hard tissues like the Rhino. Not ballistic gel testing, actual hunters measuring a penetration depth of over 40". The whaling commission also required 40" minimum penetration to humanly kill a large whale and they were satisfied with the .460 also.

Also, the thing the 45-70 does not have is the range or as much flexibility in loads. The 460 WBY's heaviest bullet is traveling faster at 300 yards than the 45-70's bullet is at the muzzle. If you want to follow your logic of penetration drops off at over 1,600 FPS, you could easily take any animal on earth out to 500 Yds with a 460 WBY. As far as flexibility goes, you can load a 300 GRN bullet and launch it at 3,000 FPS + for safe, long distance hunting of any predator. Or you could load a 600 GRN solid bullet at 2500 FPS for quick stopping (killing) of an elephant, at practically any range. The 45-70 tops out long before any of that.

The 45-70 is a great old cartridge and more than enough for most predators but it is not in the league of the true "elephant" calibers like .460 WBY, 500 nitro, 577 Trex and beyond, like the OP is talking here. Besides if you ask me, .375 Ruger is probably good enough for anything, anywhere anyhow.

 

[Shannow]

.45-70 was used at 1000 yards in the day for targets, and double that for beaten fire.

Why do you say it doesn't have range ?

Can be black powder, or some serious + options...why does it not have flexibility, in even a modern lever action, let alone free choice of action ?

 

[Robenstein]

Back in the day the Buffalo guns were often 45 caliber, but where something like the 45-90 Sharps to drop the game at longer range. And in the 1880's and 90's you would have likely seen Browning high walls in 45-90 at Creedmoor. While the advent of smokeless powder has given the old Govt cartridge more versatility, saying it was used to punch holes in paper target shooting competitions is far from arguing it has good range for big and dangerous game.

 

[OVERKILL]

What's the point of using these monster cartridges over something more readily available like the .50BMG? (serious question). It can penetrate a tank or armoured car...... And there are a plethora of exceptional rifles like the M82A1, TAC50....etc.

And of course it will toss a 800 gr (52 g) projectile down the range at 2,895 ft/s or a 647 gr (42 g) one down the range at 3,044 ft/s.