Synthetic only for turbo engines?

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Ganton
then is 502.00 their (VW's) numerical code for a full synthetic? My owners manual from 2003 states 502.00 but says nothing about synthetic.


As others have already pointed out, VW 502.00 is a performance specification. How it is met is mostly irrelevant.
http://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/vw_motor_oil_specifications_explained.php

If that were my car I'd use either Mobil 1 0W-40 or Castrol Edge 0W-40, both available at Walmart for a low price and both carry 502.00. There are other oils that do as well but for more money.

 

[AlaskaMike]

BrocLuno is 100% correct--it's all about coking on the shaft in the turbo. Big trucks typically have an Exhaust Gas Temperature gauge where they can get a good idea of when the turbo has cooled down enough and it's safe to shutdown the engine.

If you let the engine idle for a while after a hard run to make sure the turbo has cooled down, there's no reason at all you couldn't run dino.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: AlaskaMike
BrocLuno is 100% correct--it's all about coking on the shaft in the turbo. Big trucks typically have an Exhaust Gas Temperature gauge where they can get a good idea of when the turbo has cooled down enough and it's safe to shutdown the engine.

If you let the engine idle for a while after a hard run to make sure the turbo has cooled down, there's no reason at all you couldn't run dino.


Given the issues you list there is no compelling reason not to use a 502.00 oil, none of which are dino.

 

[y_p_w]

The biggest issue with turbos was coking in setups where the only cooling for the turbo bearings came from oil, although higher output from the cylinders can also stress motor oil. The big issue was that once the engine was shut down, the oil stopped flowing, and all that was left was the oil stopped in the bearings without any oil flow to take away the heat. If the turbo was hot and still spinning, that was residual heat and energy without the oil to take away the heat. It used to be a common recommendation to let a turbo engine idle for a while before shutting down, to allow the energy in the turbo to reach the minimum while oil was still flowing, and to remove as much residual heat as possible before final shut down.

Pretty much all modern turbos are water cooled with a system to draw heat from the turbo even without any oil or coolant flow. My WRX has a secondary reservoir located above the level of the turbo. Even with the water pump shut down, it's designed to siphon heat from the turbo into the cooler coolant in this secondary reservoir. It's effective enough that common 5W-30 motor oil is sufficient, although there can be benefits from a higher performance oil.

I've heard that the US owner's manuals for current WRXs recommend a "synthetic 5W-30" although non-turbo engines get a recommendation for 0W-20 these days.

 

[4WD]

Think PUP is all synthetic ? GTL is GIII+ ...
Delvac 1300 is GII+ ... MolaKule has pointed out Mobil 1 base fluid combo's vary per formula ..
Look how much PAO and beyond XOM produce ... it's part of the mix ...

Your Delo or Delvac Dino has a lower NOACK than " synthetic" T6 ... what's up with that ?

 

[CharBaby]

The )))HOT((( engine is due to another issue and not the oil. The lack of proper cooling such as a bad/going bad water pump impeller, T-stat, lack of coolant/coolant maintenance etc. The oil leak may have developed due to the hot engine.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Think PUP is all synthetic ? GTL is GIII+ ...
Delvac 1300 is GII+ ... MolaKule has pointed out Mobil 1 base fluid combo's vary per formula ..
Look how much PAO and beyond XOM produce ... it's part of the mix ...

Your Delo or Delvac Dino has a lower NOACK than " synthetic" T6 ... what's up with that ?



High T6 5W40 NOACK loss is a bit of a mystery to me.
Still supposed to be the "go to" oil for WRX modders...

 

[itguy08]

Not necessarily. Use what the manufacturer recommends. Be it synthetic or their own spec. Ford probably has the most turbo engines out there of any manufacturer (EB 3.5 since 2009, and the EB 4's in their high volume vehicles, EB 2.7) and they don't require any synthetic and have been living pretty long lives.

Heck, my personal one has 111k on it and spend most of its life on dino oil from the dealer. Still runs like a beast. According to some it should be at the scrap yard with 2 dead turbos and plugged up valves. Yet it runs great.

 

[BrocLuno]

My discussion above was not to try to persuade anyone to run HEDO's in their turbo vars/trucks. You should run what the manual calls for.

But I have had very good luck substituting HDEO's for called out oils once I know the root causes of the call-out ... That can often be found on chat boards dedicated to a make or model.

If 502.00 is called for. that is the minimum for long and happy life. Dino, synthetic, semi-syn - that makes little difference

 

[KL31]

The thing is that most pcmo dino that people are using are probably weak sauce 30 grades with none of the protection that 15w40 dino will have. Example, a resource conserving API SN 30 grade dino won't cut it for a turbo engine compared to a 15w40 Dino that has more zddp, potentially an A3/B4 with way higher TBN and hths and other approvals.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno

Delo400 was the first oil to support a Cummin diesel with turbo to the 1,000,000 mile mark w/o a tear down. Mobil Delvac was a few months behind with their 1,000,000 mile program. At the time, both strictly dino. Now they are both semi-syn...



The first Cummins to go 1 million miles without a major overhaul was in 1985 by Gus Hackler Trucking of Meridian, ID and it was on Schaeffer oil.

I took a '96 Cummins N-14 to 1.4 mil without a overhaul and it went right to work for next owner. That was on Kendall 15w40 convenitonal. And an '06 Cummins ISX to 1 mil on a local brand 15w40 conventional from my tire and oil supplier that was blended by Warren Oil in Council Bluffs, IA.

I currently have a Detroit 60 with 675,000 on it that has been primarily on Schaeffer syn blend... 10w30 in winter, 15w40 in summer. I have also kept a PTP Turbo Blanket on the exhaust side of the Borg Warner 171702 asymmetric turbo on the engine and everything is still in great shape. Pretty sure another 1 million miler easy.

And most modern turbos, gas or diesel, are water cooled along with normal oil flow on the shaft area. Turbos tend to cool down very quickly with just a simple drive down the street and into a parking area or driveway. Only if one runs the tar out of an engine and reaches down and shuts it off is there an appreciable problem with turbo cooling down. I have a pyro mounted at the exit of my turbo and can watch temps drop considerably after leaving the highway and making the short drive on normal streets to a parking area.

 

[steve20]

^^^ great info TT, thanks for posting your real-life experience.

Question: when Kendall conv 15-40 took you those 1 M miles, why not stay with a good thing, and keep on using it?
Steve

 

[BrocLuno]

Sorry TT, I misspoke (wrote). It was the first Caterpillar 3608 to go the distance, not a Cummins ... And, later the first major oil refiner to do the same for all three major USA engine MFG's simultaneously ...

More info here: http://www.deloperformance.com/content/d...ssets/page1.pdf

Only reason I refer to them so often is that the big refinery in Richmond (CA) put a LOT of product in my tanks when I was hauling and I got to see and talk to their guys a bunch. Just familiarity I guess ...

Nothing wrong with the others discussed here. Schaeffer is just to far away from me for any local knowledge ...

Have used Kendall in the past for racing oils - good stuff

 

[zoli]

Ganton: how far do you go in terms of OCI? Here the the car manfacturer proposes (extremely) long service period what makes us using HC or VOLLSYNTHETIC oils - according to terminology of Germany. Comparing my turbo aspirated old SAAB B205E and VOLVO B5204T2 engine with a heavy duty truck: much more stop-and-go traffic, short distance run, abusing the engine on highways, etc.
I would focus on short OCI: max 6K miles + car builder approved oil + OEM oil filter + oil analysis close to the end of the OCI. And fix the oil leak (mainshaft gasket?) soon!