synthetic groups.....

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Hi. I know there are few different types of synthrtic engine oils.Group 1-5. Which synthetic oils are in group 3? 4? and 5? Ex: Shell helix ultra group 3 oil.(5w-40) Thank you.
 
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Mobil 1's base lube is primarily PAO (Group IV), with esters* (Group V) used as an anti-wear additive. Mobil 1 is the only -known- OTC primary blend of PAO lube stock, though Quaker State "Fully Synthetic" is rumored to use PAO, too - depends on which corporate information source you believe... *esters are great cleaners, too. As well, they are highly polar molecules and cling to metal surfaces after normal drain-off. Castrol Syntec also uses esters, so even though Syntec's base lube stock is a Group III, it's probably a very good motor oil. [ March 17, 2004, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
 

Toyota18

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213
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Sydney
quote:
Originally posted by Toyota18: Hi. I know there are few different types of synthrtic engine oils.Group 1-5. Which synthetic oils are in group 3? 4? and 5? Ex: Shell helix ultra group 3 oil.(5w-40) Thank you.
 
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originally posted by darkdan
quote:
Where can I read about what makes something a group whatever. I get the PAO thing, but I'd like things to be a little more clear.
Here you go API Base Oil Catagories I believe there's a Group VI,it might have been discussed on this site but I havn't found it yet.It's PIA Polinternalolefins
 

Toyota18

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quote:
Originally posted by Toyota18: Hi. I know there are few different types of synthrtic engine oils.Group 1-5. Which synthetic oils are in group 3? 4? and 5? Ex: Shell helix ultra group 3 oil.(5w-40) Thank you.
1)Mobil1 0w-40 Group? 2)Mobil1 5w-50 Group? 3)BP Visco 5000 5w-40 Group? 4)Valvoline synpower 5w-40 Group? 5)Castrol Syntec0w-40 Group? 6)One lubricant marketer developed the phrase "Oils ain't Oils" - how bloody true it is. However, many consumers believe oils are the same and let their service dealer or local garage put whatever oil they want into their machine. Bikers are different - they want to know and want to choose a product they believe is best for their bike. Mineral, Part or Semi Synthetic, Full Synthetic and even Vegetable Oils are common marketing terms today. As far as the base oils used, what do they really mean? A typical engine oil is comprised of around 80-90% base oil, the rest being additives (refer Part 4). Base oils provide lubrication and cooling to keep your engine working - simply put, it is the life-blood of your engine - and is as important as any other part you have on your Harley. The choice of base oil not only determines the cost of the finished product, but also the overall performance in your engine. I wish it was simple – but again it is somewhat complex. The industry has put base oils into five categories based on chemical composition, physical characteristics and type. The key differences being the amount of sulphur & saturates – sulphur is a natural component of crude oil – but not desired – the lower the sulphur content, the better; saturates are a type of hydrocarbon, the more, the better; the viscosity index (VI) - an important measure of the resistance to thinning of the viscosity of the oil with increasing temperature – the higher the VI, the lesser the thinning, the better; and the type which helps differentiate mineral from synthetics in a somewhat disputable definition. More about that later. For reference to those interested, the industry categories are: Base Oil Sulphur (%) Saturates (%) Viscosity Index Group I >0.03 and/or <90 80 to 120 Group II <0.03 and >90 80 to 120 Group III <0.03 and >90 >120 Group IV All polyalphaolefins (PAO’s) Group V All others not included in Groups I, II, III or IV Group I Mineral Oils have been around over 100 years and are made from the stuff that made Jed a millionaire - Black Gold, Texas Tea - crude oil. The "light" components such as petrol (gasoline), kerosene (Jet Fuel) and diesel fuel (Automotive Distillate) are removed from crude oil in the fuels refinery. The "heavier" components that are left are sent to the Lube Refinery to make mineral base oils and asphalt - for laying those black, beautiful, sweeping curves we seek on all rides. Commonly referred to as Conventional Refining, only three or four mineral base oils are made, light through heavy viscosity. These three or four base stocks are used in blending to make the hundreds of finished products on the market. This is efficient for refining, but can be a performance compromise for the engine oil formulator. Group I Mineral Oils are relatively the cheapest, the most commonly used today but on the bottom (or conversely the start) of the quality and performance scale. Even after refining, they still contain natural nasties that can form gums, varnish, sludge and other deposits in your engine. Group II & III category base oils are manufactured by what is referred to as Non-Conventional or Modern Refining. They are made from by-products of fuels and/or lubes refining such as residuals or wax so initially were considered Mineral Oils – but some marketers nowadays claim they are Synthetic. To argue here could put me into court. Suffice to say that directionally, Group II & III base oils have much reduced sulphur content and increased saturates and VI so move up the quality and performance scale from Group I Mineral Oils. Their current limit is that as only light to medium viscosity grades are available, their use is restricted to low viscosity engine oils – not what we want for our Harley’s. To meet SAE 20W-50, other base oils or additives are required – another compromise for optimum performance. Some of the nasties are still there. Group IV PolyAlphaOlefins (PAO’s) are 100% pure saturates with zero sulphur and naturally very high VI’s. They are considered as containing the “perfect” oil molecule, the iso-paraffin (of the saturate family). No nasties! They are person-made and tailor-made from synthesis converting pure hydrocarbon ethylene gas to oil molecules covering all required viscosity grades – no compromise here. From very light to very heavy viscosity oils can be made from 100% PAO’s. The synthesis to manufacture PAO’s is costly so Group IV PAO’s synthetic base oils are more expensive than Group I, II or III base oils. PAO is at the top of the hydrocarbon lubrication ladder. Group V Others contains all other synthetics such as esters & alkylated aromatics – the most commonly used pure synthetic in automotive applications after PAO. Most are not hydrocarbons, usually very light in viscosity, but very similar, and in automotive engine oil applications must be compatible with all the other Groups. Many full synthetic engine oil formulations contain blends of PAO and esters and/or alkylated aromatics for optimum performance. The problem here is that you will never find a reference to the Base Oil category on the label. You might see marketing claims of Part or Semi-Synthetic (Group I and/or II with Group III, IV or V) or Full Synthetic (Group III, IV or V). To be honest, if you really want to know, you need to telephone the oil company. They all usually have a technical line but may have to get back to you with what category base oils they use in the engine oil you are using, or planning to use. But why not give it a go! Don’t forget, the quality ladder starts at Group I, then Group II, then Group III and tops at Group IV for the hydrocarbons with Group V as stand alone or blend component base oils. Good luck!! Regards Gary PS What do I use – Group IV PAO’s with Group V components. PSS On yeah – Vegetable Oils – don’t even consider these for your Harley engine. The most common is castor oil – most suitable really for “total loss” 2-stroke fuel applications. Top Oz HOG Inc. Chapter No. 9053. An [ March 18, 2004, 02:29 AM: Message edited by: Toyota18 ]
 

pmt

Messages
148
Location
MN
quote:
Originally posted by Ray H: Mobil 1's base lube is primarily PAO (Group IV), with esters* (Group V) used as an anti-wear additive. Mobil 1 is the only -known- OTC primary blend of PAO lube stock, though Quaker State "Fully Synthetic" is rumored to use PAO, too - depends on which corporate information source you believe... *esters are great cleaners, too. As well, they are highly polar molecules and cling to metal surfaces after normal drain-off. Castrol Syntec also uses esters, so even though Syntec's base lube stock is a Group III, it's probably a very good motor oil.
So in my "summer" car that sits in the garage 4-5 months without running each winter, would it be a good idea to use an oil with max amount of esters? Does anyone know which of the following has the highest % esters? M1 10W-30 Delvac 1 GC 0W-30 Thanks.
 
Messages
698
Location
MA
quote:
Originally posted by pmt:
quote:
Originally posted by Ray H: Mobil 1's base lube is primarily PAO (Group IV), with esters* (Group V) used as an anti-wear additive. Mobil 1 is the only -known- OTC primary blend of PAO lube stock, though Quaker State "Fully Synthetic" is rumored to use PAO, too - depends on which corporate information source you believe... *esters are great cleaners, too. As well, they are highly polar molecules and cling to metal surfaces after normal drain-off. Castrol Syntec also uses esters, so even though Syntec's base lube stock is a Group III, it's probably a very good motor oil.
So in my "summer" car that sits in the garage 4-5 months without running each winter, would it be a good idea to use an oil with max amount of esters? Does anyone know which of the following has the highest % esters? M1 10W-30 Delvac 1 GC 0W-30 Thanks.

If you have decided you want an ester based oil then you probably want Redline. Of the three oils you listed I would bet Delvac has the highest % esters. Check this thread for some possible info on Mobils base stocks: http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005924
 
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